Everyone hates this team right now but keep in mind we are only 4 points out of a playoff spot and showing signs of improvement. slowly but surely getting better. Still lots (and lots) of room for improvement in the dzone but there are signs of improvement. Hopefully that last minute goal gives a little confidence
In the conference we’re 4 points out, in our division we’re 8 points out.
we are 4 points out of a wild card spot and a playoff spot; that is all that matters.
True but I’d rather be in a reliable playoff position. There are still so many games to play and no real reason to panic. This team has shown great flashes of what they can be. Just have to figure out how to play that way for 60 minutes. I do find PMac’s choices for the shoot out kind of funny… For the next one if he goes with the same guys I’ll be confused.
I don’t know if this cane up in the previous thread, but it has become increasingly clear that MacLean has some players who will continue to get ice-time no matter how they are playing. Anyone who can explain to me why Colin Greening gets nearly twice as much ice-time as Cory Conacher, please enlighten me.
Call up Hoffman, or make a trade, but Greening (and Condra, once he returns) are the only ones preventing us from rolling 4 lines, IMO, yet they continue to see the ice.
All of you who will jump down my throat, saying Condra is an under-rated defensive specialist must be watching a different game than me. I see Grant doing a much better job, and he’s bigger, faster, and is a center (who is good on the draw) – traditionally where you want your defensive specialist to play.
I was wondering that too, why Greening was on the 1st line and Conacher was on the 4th for a bit, I don’t get it. Greening is alright in the 4th line role but he had zero finish for the 1st line.
I agree, Condra is not playing as good as he was last year. He has no scoring ability (unless the puck is turned over to him in the slot all alone), he doesnt play physical AT ALL, and his defensive play has been shit this year.
Trade him away and call up Buddy Robinson, 6’5″ 235LBS and put him on the 4th line and tell him to play physical.
Because Conacher is unreliable defensively & constantly let’s players beat him to the net. He is too small & not strong enough to contain bigger forwards & or out fight guys for pucks along the boards or in the corners. Conacher does go to the front of the net but he has yet to score anything from there or anywhere else for that matter. I don’t understand the Conacher love on here, he isn’t scoring & he isn’t preventing goals, he doesn’t hit & he doesn’t fight, what good is he?
Greening on the other hand is very reliable defensively, he is bigger & stronger & not only wins numerous puck battles but hits, takes face offs & has made several excellent pasess that should have resulted in goals if only our players could hit the net. PM uses him on evry line in every situation, unfortunately this fan base doesn’t see what the coach sees. This fan base are like lemmings, they all follow the popular point of view, because Greening isn’t much of a scorer & Conacher supposedly is, they prefer the goal scorer. Howerver, in this case Conacher isn’t scoring & he isn’t doing anything else of value while Greening at least plays a very sound defensive game. I’d much rather have a sound defensive player than an offensive player who doesn’t score & is a waste of a roster spot. Hopefully this week with Condra hurt BM/PM will bring up Stone who will eventually take Conacher’s spot.
Greening and Conacher both have 3 pts and the same amount of ice time. Greening is a -2 and Conacher is +3.
Conacher also gets favorable matchups whereas the coach is not afraid to put Greening up against anyone. Greening has much better offense than Condra and can play with skilled players and grinders just the same. Conacher is one of the most inconsistent senators, and I don’t mean he doesn’t try, he does, but the success associated with his shifts is very inconsistent. Greening is as dependable as they come for our top 9 forwards!
Also Greening has shown chemistry with Spezza that few ever have. I’d actually say I’d rather see Greening with Spezza over Michalek, though I think there’s room to reunite that line as a whole now with Turris-Ryan-McArthur looking good. Spezza needs a grinder on his line to remind him to work hard and not just always do his same 3-5 pretty plays like he does with Ryan and Michalek.
I just think Conacher has better finish than Greening, which is what Spezza needs for those insane passes he sometimes throws across the crease. I just think something is off with Greening this year, I like Greening but he is not a 1st line winger.
I would wager that the majority of the rest of us think you are out to lunch if you think Greening is playing better than Conacher (in his 7-8 minutes he gets).
Is TSN radio only reading emails of people wanting to trade Spezza or does everyone feel this way?
Totally agree! I was thinking to myself the other day that maybe we could trade Milan to Phoenix so he can play with his brother. Maybe we could get Ekman-Larsson in return somehow. Although I doubt they’re going to trade him away. Ekman-Larrson and Karlsson together on the PP would be pretty sweet though.
To get OEL we would have to trade Milan Spezza and a 1st or 2nd rounder
No way! Spezza + Milan would fetch you more than OEL on their own. I could see Milan + pick, or Spezza for OEL+, but top 10-20 players in the league which Spezza is and OEL is not, do not grow on trees and do not get traded for peanuts on the dollar normally.
OEL is going to be very good though. Plus OEL is fun to type.
I like Spezza – really, I do. BUT he is not one of the top 10-20 players in the world. I see shit like that on this site, and it amazes me. I won’t go as far as Jacques and say that we should trade him, but I do agree that there’s a reason why he isn’t on Team Canada, let alone “Team World”, as you suggest. On that point, I agree with Jacques. (but trading him, no way…)
Actually I said league! And the last season he played close to a full season he was 4th in pts in the LEAGUE! If that doesn’t make him a top 20 player in your mind, you are the one that’s out there!
You said he was a top 10-20 player in the league, and since the NHL is the best league in the world, i made that leap, sorry.
At any rate,we weren’t talking skill (alone) were we?
I will return to the Team Canada roster, there are 6 or 7 centers ahead of him (in their eyes), and rightfully so.
Giroux (although he is sinking fast)
Canada has most of the top Cs in the world, so it makes sense that he could be around 6-8th on that list and still be in the top 20 overall, as most of the top players in the world/league are centres.
There are a couple players in the world not in the NHL that I would consider possibly more skilled than Spezza (like Kovalchuk).
I agree on Crosby, Toews, Tavares, Stamkos, and I’d give you Getzlaf as he has the cup over Spezza, though I think Spezza is more skilled and Getzlaf more physical.
However, Giroux, Couture and Thornton are not better than Spezza. Thornton may have been in his prime, but he ain’t there any more he’s just on a great team, Couture is not there yet if ever gets to that level, this is the first time he’s on pace for a point per game season, and Giroux is more of a winger at that level and has not found the consistency at the NHL level yet to be put ahead of Spezza.
Spezza loses out to the Olympics simply because he doesn’t play wing and Team Canada insists on having a great 2 way player like Bergeron. Skill wise, I think Spezza should be #5-6 on that list at C for Canada fighting with Getzlaf for whoever is healthy at Olympic time.
All this to say though, he still falls in the top 20 in the league imo.
The whole team is having issues, I don’t blame Spezza for that. I have never understood all the trade Spezza crap.
If you already know that you won’t be extending him Next year than you start looking to trade him(how many of us if we were GM would re-sign him). Hell, he’s somewhat healthy right now and he deosn’t seem to fit PMac’s style of play so why not move him now. They named him Captain only so he wouldn’t drag his feet too much. He has 8 goals a good start(points wise at least)- not everyone really watching whats going on so he would be attractive with some term left(just has to wave his no trade clause).
The writing has been on the wall for awhile, they’ve been shopping him over the last few years. Still, I have to admit I was surprised he was named Captain. This is all still rebuild IMHO.
ITS all about CULTURE and STYLE of play and Spezza doesn’t fit in with the new culture they are bringing in – Why name him Captain if they already knew this, is my only question.
His style may not suit us, but where would we be if he wasn’t scoring for us???
For all the good Turris and Macarthur are doing in terms of possession stats etc etc, they aren’t really finishing. Spezza is. He has to get credit for that
yikes. we have methot playing less minutes than cowen yesterday and there is an argument about spezza instead?
or we have Chris Phillips still playing 18 minutes a game and we are trying to trade the Captain instead?
Yeah , but his style is putting more pucks in the back of our net when he’s out there! He has to play 200 ft like Turris or his ass will be glued to the bench. Don’t you understand what PMAC is doing here. Your the Captain dude don’t twirl at the blueline get all the way back and be responsible 200FT. Good for one good for all.
And let me guess you think Chris Neil is playing well
Because you’re completely out to lunch wrong.
Tell me more about this new culture and style that doesn’t have a need for a point a game centre…? And how in the hell are we having this stupid conversation again? Is he really being blamed for the ridiculously awful defence this team is playing right now?
Get a grip.
I don’t see why we shouldn’t blame him. Occam’s Razor states it must be his fault because everything else is. After all according to somebody yesterday, Anderson was injured because of him.
I’m pretty sure Spezza is personally responsible for the deforestation of the Brazilian rainforest and the hole in the Ozone layer. And as for giving Edward Snowden the security keys for all of that information, well that was just silly of Jason.
I’m just saying is he on the first line NO. Turris plays a 200 ft game and PMAC expects that from everyone. Spezza is paid 7 times more than some guys who are giving that effort. Spezza has all the talent in the world to be one of the TOP 5 players in this league. I have no problem with what PMAC is trying to get out of him. Others didn’t do this in the past(coaches)and they are to blame. If PMAC succeeds we’ll be a better team for it. Here in Ottawa we all belly ache when one of our players is deemed to be treated unfairly or we stay away from the rink cuz we are getting less than market value for our dollar! Don’t tell me he’s playing well(points aren’t everything), more goals are going in our net when he’s out there. I don’t feel sorry for him and I never have, I expect more from Jason Spezza he’s an unbelievable talent, no secret why TEAM CANADA doesn’t want him – ASK YOURSELF THAT ONE.
And Defence starts with puck possession up front or so I was taught playing hockey.
I can’t believe you and I cheer for the same team.
Me neither because the team you cheer for has different rules for different players. I expect the Highest paid player to bring the most out there. MacLean comes from the Detroit Red Wings and they know how to win. Everybody plays the same way.
Patrick Kane won the cup in 2 of the last 4 years…Does he know how to play the game? What about Kopitar?
We nitpick for the sake of ntipicking
So that means you expect Spezza to be our 4th best player, because Michalek, Ryan and Karlsson are all getting paid more than him this year.
I’m presuming you are more than happy with what Michalek provides above and beyond what Spezza does?
Spezza is a point producer. That’s his job.
As long as he produces I will be happy with his play. Different roles for different players. As long as the effort level is there, then I see no problem. His leadership will improve as the season goes on.
Still way too early for all this Spezza drama
Blame anyone and eveyrone, but stop questioning PMac
Its too hypocritical for us to praise him for 2 years, then now say he is a brutal coach. People syaing he may get fired. He won’t. Brian Murray will not fire another coach for the Senators. He has fired enough. Ruff went through several years of tough sledding with Buffalo. Look at Trotz in Nashville. PMac is staying
Who knows what he is saying in the locker room. The boys are just gripping it too hard. Plain and simple.
Hows this for a stat…..
The Senators are the only team with 4 players in the top 30 in scoring. Karlsson-Spezza-Ryan-Turris
Frustrating game at times for sure but closer to a complete effort than some other recent games. If we hadn’t been playing such a struggling team I’d feel “okay” with a pity point here.
As for the panic button, I really hope Murray keeps his cool (or is allowed to keep his cool). This team is still very young overall and still at least a year away from “the window”. If we’re able to let these young guys work through their troubles right now it could pay off huge in the next few years.
I’m not saying do nothing. But I sure as heck don’t want to see any of our core pieces traded away for short-term fixes. If they (meaning Murray and MacLean) can figure out a way to get the message to the team that it’s on them to right the ship and show a little faith, imagine how solid the team would be at the end of that process.
I can easily picture this same group of players (give or take a couple of course) at Christmas of next season being near the top of the NHL and some broadcaster saying something like “Early last season this team was in bad shape and many were calling for trades. Murray didn’t make any radical moves and the players themselves fought through it and ended up stronger for it. Now this same core of young players are a year older and more experienced. They play as a complete unit of four lines and six defensemen and every night there’s a different player who steps up. By showing some faith in the players, Murray and MacLean have been rewarded with a group of players who are dedicated and play hard for the guy next to them.”
Let’s face it, with a “budget” we can’t give up on players as quickly as other teams can. We need to build reciprocal relationships (with players that deserve it of course) and hope that by standing behind them they want to stay and play here long term.
Budget is irrelevant here. It is just plain stupid to give up on players after 14 games into a season or less than 100 career games.
Agree that even if money was no object we shouldn’t panic. Just saying that if we were to make some radical trades now we’d have a bit tougher time renewing other players or signing UFAs etc.
This is a big week, period.
Do I wish we had a better start? Absoluetly. Is the sky falling or should we be pushing this so called, “panic button”? Absoluetly NOT.
It is the first week of November and we are 4 PTS out of a playoff spot. If we win our next 3 games, which is 100 percent possible (CBJ,MTL,FLA) that would mean out of the first 5 games in Nov we would have gotten an 8 out of possible 10 PTS.
RELAX everyone. For the ppl emailing and calling in to TSN 1200 to trade Spezza?!?
Give your head a shake. For ppl questioning Pmac? How many NHL teams have you coached?!
14 games in people, give it til Dec 1st, the 2 month point and see where we are at.
How about buying some tickets to go SUPPORT the team instead of bitching from the seat of your couch.
GO SENS GO
TRUST IN PMAC AND BM.
Way too early to panic. I also believe that they will get way better in November. Trading Spezza is ludicrous. We just had a change of leadership this summer. Of course it’s going to take a bit of time to work things out.
Patience is key in this situation
Fans need to have some faith in the team instead of calling out for every player that under performs after 14 games to get traded or benched. The only way to improve as a hockey player is to play.
Also, why is it that fans in Ottawa don’t go to games. When I lived there, I went once month. Ticket prices are cheap (compared to other Canadian teams) and public transit to games makes it easy to get to CTC. As a matter of fact, going to Sens games are what I miss most about Ottawa.
With that being said,
Hopefully they win a few soon,
yesterday’s almost-comeback with the latter two periods of solid play gave me some hope again that this team can come to play like it did last season.
somethings that still bothered though:
cowen getting more minutes than methot – 26 vs 17 – what was that about?
phillips still getting sustained large amounts of ice-time – what is sens coaching and management afraid of?
i thought Zack Smith and Zibanejad had good solid games.
spezza came alive in the third – which was nice to see finally – i thought he was getting completely disengaged and disconnected between Neil and Conacher.
Turris line- great. the best thing i like about Turris he comes all the way down in the defensive zone – most responsible sens forward or skater for that matter. Same for Ryan.
in terms of being dynamic on the ice, Karlsson is the standout leader, but i think Ryan and Zibanejad also stand out, something about them and offense, always look like they are creating something.
finally goaltending: even though the first goal was on a bad pinch by Cowen, i feel both were stoppable goals, yea the Whitney shot was a tough one so maybe Cowen’s pinch is the primary factor. but i feel Andy is not at his standard level of play.
for all the MM9 haters: he made the pass for the Ryan 3-3 goal. ’nuff said. i feel Colin greening has been very disappointing to start this season except for the Spezza PHX 2-2 marker.
in all the negativity, i think yesterday we found that the team still has character and maybe thats the core quality that we have really come to admire about the team instead of actual play-features like defense and offense. still some kinks to iron out though definitely and some questionable lineup combo decisions.
sens are lucky as both MTL and TOR have not been able to press the advantage. and toronto is missing their two most important centremen now, especially Bolland long term. Its time to seize the opening and start the stretch drive. it starts in Columbus!
U r on the BALL. Exactly, Turris comes all the way back into the defensive Zone fights for the puck and then back the other way. That is the Culture they are trying to install. If Spezza could bring that I would shutup about trading him. Thats what PMAC expects from everybody, and it should be that way.
there is without a doubt a huge problem right now in the dressing room. And as much as we know we have a great coach, he is certainly a very large part of our sens very bad play right now.
Someone in the media must call him out on some of the most puzzling decisions he is making. Biggest frustrations for me:
Chris Phillips getting icetime when he is one of the worst d-man on the team
– and he is getting PP time when he never played PP in the prime of his career.
Chris Neil playing with Spezza???? Can you imagine if they put Kessel with Orr in TO?
Methot being by far our best D-man and getting lest ice time than Phillips?
Spezza being asked to play on the 3rd line, and he is playing the role of defensive centreman by dumping the puck and getting off.
Greening, Smith, Condra, Phillips, Neil, can all make all the mistakes in the world, cost you games, yet they will never ever sit.
Yes we all love the Stache, but that does not mean that he should not be called out, when some of these decisions he is making is costing us games!
yup, no disrespect, but the way Borocop played last night is what actually is needed from Chris Phillips. But there is no chance we get that level of play from Phillips, he looks slow out there in every aspect. Skating is still decent, but just not as physical and definitely not very good at decision making anymore. Just looks too tentative. That is why i think they should sit him atleast one game and play Boro instead and insert Gryba back.
The sens backend is not a nasty place to go into anymore. its too easy for forwards to skate in with speed now. last year, you would be sure of some serious manhandling at the hands of Gryba and Methot and then when Cowen came back it was even nastier. Not seeing that at all on a consistent basis this year. Wiercioch is just too soft and its not Karlsson’s style of play. Cowen is doing it somewhat, but still makes mistakes that dull the impacts lol
Bang on MAn! Last year when Methot and Gryba were together they made you pay the price to cross the blueline. Now we sit Gryba, I love watching him play ,sure the odd mistake but they don’t usually cost us the game. People nitpick on Gryba and I think he’s effective. Let him crush bodies out there. Especially should be out there Thursday to spook some Habs players a little!
Wiercioch is not too soft, It just isnt his style of play.
so with Bozak and Bolland both out long term, i think BM should put in a conciliatory call to Dave Nonis offering Stephane DaCosta,
considering also the fact that there is video evidence Lupul tried to take Kadri out with an elbow in game – the teammates dont like him.
How ironic.. hard to stomach loss includes a hard to stomach free big mac…
It’s the second game in a row where they took the game to a shootout & lost. That’s a hell-of-a-lot better than losing in regulation time & they got another much needed point. IMO they are moving in the right direction & slowly but surely improving with each game. While they are still giving up way too many shots & still making numerous mistakes they have cut down on the amount of penalties they take & they are now starting to score some goals.
I still maintain that this team needs to get a little bigger & a lot tougher, they need to play with more urgency & grit. They are still too nice & are not very hard to play against, no one is afraid to play the Ottawa Senators & that has to change soon. With Condra hurt I’m hoping that one of Stone, Robinson or DD is called up. I like Boroweicki in the lineup he at least brings a little more grit, it’s what the defence as a whole lack, toughness (fearless my ass). I also want to see Conacher benched soon & Stone to take his spot.
Here’s an interesting yet discouraging fact: The Senators have allowed over 50 shots on goals three times this season. According to Ian Mendes, only seven teams have done that in the same season over the last 20 years and they all missed the playoffs.
We’re going to be the ones to break that trend
Shot-based correlations are a red herring. **runs and hides**
I gotta say I find it tough to come around here when the team isn’t overachieving. Trade Spezza? C’mon guys…we’re better than that.
I was watching the Blackhawks game the other night. Counted at least 3 plays by Saint Toews that some Sens fans would have ROASTED Jason Spezza for.
The hating on #19 is so utterly “Ottawa” in all the worst ways.
I was at the game and the attendance was horrible again. Teams are really clogging up the blueline and there has to be a lot of dump and chase. For that reason you need size to forecheck. That is probably why the Sens are going big. I must say that Erik Karlsson is worth the price of admission. He played the last 5 minutes of regulation time and he dominated. He looked like some guy named Orr (Bobby not Colton). We are so lucky to have him on our team. I also thought Zack Smith played really well. His skating seems to have improved a lot.
Chirp, have you heard anything regarding the trade rumors between Ottawa and Florida? They have a big D-man in Gudbranson but I doubt they’d trade him
Mentioned this briefly last week. Seems like the teams have talked but that the Panthers wanted more than Ottawa was willing to offer. Believe they asked about Craig Anderson at some point.
As a Sens Fan, with a usual positive vibe, I’m having a hard time finding positives to bring up after each lose we suffer. It just seems that each night, issues from previous games start to look a little better. Then something else bad happens and the end result is the same. I’m hoping and praying for a complete turn around. Please Sens God!!
It’s great to get a point out of each of the last two games, but not getting those W’s is putting us far out of contention. If we continue this stretch into next week or the week after, we may as well put Playoffs out of our vocabulary. But, we’ve seen crazier things happen, so at this stage it’s business as usual. Again, Please Sens God!!!
What’s even more frustrating is not having a 1st rounder in this draft. I’m not upset at Management for that, Bobby Ryan has done everything advertised and he’s well worth the payment. But as a Fan I love watching the Sens stock up on great talent. It doesn’t look like an option this year, unless BM has some great trade strategy up his sleeve. If he does I’d expect it would involve 9MM, because he’s the only one I think a team would even consider a 1st rounder in return for, for the extra playoff push. But that’s a stretch right now as well. That could change he if gets hot.
This team needs time to figure out it’s pairings both offensively and defensively and find the right chemistry and mixture of players. Ryan, MacArthur, Conacher, and Zibanejad are all adjusting to new players/linemates and the entire D corps has new partners now that Methot has been moved. Give this team a reasonable amount of time, like say 1/4-1/3 of the season (20-30 games) before getting all crazy.
Every season fans complain about the same things that then changes a couple weeks later, let’s all just relax, enjoy the hockey and allow this team to find it’s chemistry and consistency!
New post up here
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