I’m happy with the loser point last night but both Columbus and Philadelphia were able to go on the road and pull out wins over Anaheim and San Jose. Even with the one point we got we still managed to fall further away from the wild card positions.
Hopefully our stars show up tonight. We need better from Spezza and Ryan.
I hate to crap on Spezza because I’ve always supported him, but was very disappointed in his post game response to Gord Wilson’s question on what happened on the last goal. Spezza said that his stick was lifted and that Greening went off when he wasn’t supposed to. Yes that is what happened, but for once I would have liked to hear him say that it was his fault for not getting the puck out of the zone, that it was his fault the Pens scored the winner and that he would take responsibility for the loss.
Second, Coach Mac is starting to go against his own coaching principles of best players play. Again when Wilson asked him why DaCosta did not play that much in the third, Mac gave the “this is the NHL, Stephane is still feeling his way around and the vets play”. Seems like the DaCosta line was buzzing all night and deserved more ice time. Contradictory words by our coach. Personally I think that the pressure of expectations have caused Mac to coach much differently this year than the first 2 years. He has made some very strange decisions this year that I believe have cost the Sens 4-6 points in the standings.
Greening shouldn’t have left the zone but after Spezza lost the puck battle vs James Neal he blew the zone as well. If Spezza has any hockey iq he would have made sure that puck left the zone, especially with Neal and Malkin on the ice behind him. He actually has no heart, no determination and no will to win. Not the qualities you want from your captain.
I have a hard time agreeing with you regarding Spezza not having heart or the lack of will to win. You don’t get to the NHL if you don’t have those qualities. Don’t get me wrong I would like to see more determination by the captain however that is not his style to muck it up.
I’m not comparing him to Mario Lemieux, but back in the day they said the same thing about Mario, even when he was at his prime. Something about big centres that have the long strides that make them look “lazy” but in reality they are not.
Anyhow let’s see what happens tonight. The character of this team will be put to the test in St.Louis.
You don’t make it to the NHL without having heart and a will to win? Come on man, that’s saying that every player in the NHL has heart and determination which obviously isn’t true. Spezza’s in the NHL because of the world class skill he possesses.
There are 100′s of players with more skill and talent not playing in the NHL because of the lack of determination. Talent can only take you so far.
Last year Spezza came back and played with a bad back and a bad knee in the Pittsburgh series to try and help the team win. I guess many forget that. A lot of these guys risk serious injury and in some cases their careers for the chance to win a cup.
So saying he doesn’t want to win or that he doesn’t care is straight BS.
I never said he doesn’t care. I think he does care a ton. He just lacks that extra gear that so many of the great players in this league has. Just the willingness to do whatever it takes to win a hockey game.
I’ve heard enough excuses about Spezza’s defensive weaknesses and his countless turnovers. It’s becoming inexcusable to me. It’s sad to hear fans say “well if you’re expecting Spezza to play defensive hockey well that’s too bad because it’s not his game”.
Why is it asking too much of Spezza to protect the puck and to show a little urgency or interest away from the puck? When a player wants the puck bad enough he’s going to work his ass off to go get it. Spezza doesn’t do that. He floats around the ice when the opposition has position. He’s afraid to engage defensively. It’s a sad sight man. His game last night was pathetic.
The best fighter for the puck on the team is Conacher in my opinion. That guy will take on the whole opposing team to get the puck if he has to.
“He actually has no heart, no determination and no will to win”
These are your words and you say “I never said he doesn’t care”. I’m a bit confused.
Like I said I agree that he needs to be more engaged, what I don’t agree with is what you said above.
Of course the guy cares, but it’s hard to back that up with any evidence from game footage. There was a good camera angle showing the OT play from behind the net, and you can cleary see Spezza skate a circle outside of the zone (after his weak turnover) and then casually skate a few strides to try and get back in the play. To me, who tries to be a supporter of Spezza (although finding it increasingly difficult), that was an awful play and is a fine example of his lack of heart, determination and will to win. I would give him some credit if he at least created the illusion that he tried.
Not sure why people have such hard time understanding the guy is hurt.
Injuries to his back, hip, groin and knee have taken their toll. It’s the reason why he’s almost impossible to trade and why it’s really unlikely they sign him to a new contract.
It’s not that he doesn’t care but just that his body can’t do the things it used to. That said, they are still a better team with him in the line up.
Cut back on his 5 on 5 minutes and let him rack up points on the power play.
Exactly. Also, Spezza is only 24 and has lots of time to correct the flaws in his game as well as heal up and come back stronger than ever. Giving up on Spezza now would put the Sens franchise back a decade.
He’s not hurt, he is recovering but if he isn’t 100% why is he in the lineup? Get him out of the lineup & let him recover 100%, but it doesn’t make up for all of his turnovers, he has always done that. He has always played a reckless, careless game with offence first & maybe occassionally he comes back to play defence & now Karlsson plays just like him. Offensively they are magic, defensively they are a nightmare.
Guys, all of you Spezza supporters answer this: replace Spezza on the boards with Turris, mac, Zib, Smith, Condra, Greening, hell even Conacher or the rookie da costa and you’re telling me any of those players would not A clear the zone or worse B not make a better and harder effort to retreive the puck at this stage in the game, at this stage in the year, against a conference rival at the #1 spot for a chance to grab 2 pts on the road for the upset ??
Bullshit. If our best players had played well last night, the game would not have had to go into OT. Blaming one player that you hate for the loss is very easy to do. During the last 2 games, goals have been scored by Greening. Neil and DaCosta. That’s not going to win very many games.
Lemieux was lazy & a floater, Cherry pointed it out numerous times but the difference between Lemieux & Spezza is that Lemieux consistently lead his team in pts every yr & the guys playing with him consistently had career yrs. Spezza is a no show this yr, MacArthur has more pts than him, who would have believed that at the beginning of the yr?
The puck was near the top of the circle, Spezza continued to skate backwards to close to centre ice…
You beat me to it on both of your points. I have also defended Spezza on this site, but that soft play on the boards is exactly why so many fans are critical. He is always on the offensive side of the puck. He has tremendous talent and vision, but no sense of urgency based on where he is on the ice. Very disappointing.
As far as macLean is concerned, I really feel that they will never win with him. As you point out (and others as well), his whole “the best players will play” mantra has more holes than the Sens defense.
so you want a coach who relies on his rookies and you think that is the key to success? I disagree. No coaches rely on their rookies over their vets in critical situations. none.
Mac has always made strange decisions, the difference is, the last two years they worked out more often than not.
If Spezza was harder on the puck and uses his body the stick doesnt get lifted and the puck is cleared. Need to be a little more desperate at this time of year.
Yes, Anderson played great but Fleury stole 2 points for Pittsburgh. The Sens were buzzing all around his net in the 3rd until the last minute. Not to mention his absolute robbery on Karlsson. He was strong.
That loss last night was pretty devastating I think. I mean Pitt deserved the two points but I figured after the egg we laid in TO (fack why do we always when playing them!). We didn’t play well at all in the 2nd period and Anderson saved our asses.
All the teams around us gained points as well. It’s a step forward and two steps back kinda night. We really need to get at least five points in the next three games or the defect would be too much.
Andy kept the team in it last night, no doubt. But the fact of the matter is… We kept up, just barely, with the Pens. The guys should be proud of that, and take away some positives… Seriously, it will continue to amaze me how deep and talented the Pittsburgh Penguins are. I don’t want to sound like a whiner, but it fucking sucks that players want to take a discount just to play there. From top line down to 3rd pairing, ridiculously scary. We need to play that high-tempo game with perfect execution for every team, not just the top teams.
I have to agree. In Overtime – in your zone – you need to win the puck battles on the boards. (oppose to a soft swing with a stick)… there was 0 urgency to get back into the play and back check.. If he was rushing back, he might have been in position to pick up the rebound… disappointing OT loss.
Listened to the game on the radio, then watched it later on and kept a close eye on Spezzas play, he did not win one puck battle last night, every single time he had to fight for or to keep the puck he lost it decisively. There is no way he is playing healthy, there’s got to be something wrong in my opinion.
Bigcontractitis! Severe case.
I still don’t get this urgency in finding Spezza a winger? No winger is going to improve his puck battling ability, back checking or determination.
Maybe…the wingers aren’t the problem….just sayin’
Little bit of REDBLACKS news this morning as apparently they have signed Quarterback Henry Burris. Huge move for the franchise.
Henry Burris and Kevin Glenn? How much gas do these guys have left in the tank?!
Burris led the CFL in passing yards last season.
I was hoping that the “Communist Negroes” were going to sign Tim Tebow (GRIN)
Good recovery for the Sens after a stumble in TO. Keep up the hard work tonight. GSG!!
A question not related to the game: I’m new to Ottawa, anyone know a good spot (a bar or something) to watch games?
The Senate Tavern on Clarence.
I’ve seen the place, but never been there.
Is it really worth it? I live in the far end of Gatineau, so I want to make sure. But if it is, it could make for a fun Saturday night.
Amazing spot, on weekends especially. Always fun to watch the game with a bunch of other Sens fans.
I would imagine that it’s pretty jumping when full. I went there for the first time for a game last week and it was half empty. Good selection of beers, food nothing special.
Like I said last night, a good point against a world class team. I’ll take it anytime I play Pitt on the road. Andy was very good.
The forwards backcheck has been an issue all year. I’m not sure why anybody is surprised. Everybody blames the defense but it often is the forwards defensive play that has buried us. On this play both forwards made the wrong move and left the defense 3 on 2. Malkin, Neal and ? 3 on 2 spells trouble.
It’s very true. Our young D-core have struggled this season. But, all the more reason for the forwards to be even more in-tune on the defensive side of the puck. We can jump all over Greening and Spezza for what was one of the most blatant examples of defensive miscues of the season, but this sort of thing has been going on all year (save a few players). When our team attacks and defends as a unit, they are generally successful. When players don’t commit to both sides of the puck, and particularly our forwards to the defensive side, it spells disaster every time.
if one guy in the 5 man unit doesn’t come back to help out in the defensive zone than you’re at a disadvantage. If it happens 20 minutes a night you’re FOOOOKED!
Why hasn’t Joltin’ Joe Corvo been placed on waivers ?
Insurance policy. If nobody picks him up and he gets sent down he makes 900k playing i the AHL Kind of like OBrien. We know that Melnykk doesn’t like to waste money. I see KHL next year for Joe and he may flourish there.
Corvo is a great insurance policy and one of our lowest paid players on the roster. It’s not a problem carrying a guy like that. And who knows, if some team loses a key component and needs a guy, we could pick up a late draft pick in exchange. A 5th or 6th is never bad for a guy you aren’t using.
I have to admit though, I thought Joe did great this year for us when he was needed. 10 points, 25 games, very serviceable. He will get another job after his time in Ottawa.
I don’t understand your money argument.
Corvo gets the same money if he sits in the NHL or plays in the AHL.
If he sits much longer he’s going to need a conditioning stint somewhere anyway.
Its wasting money. I agree he would be better off getting game action in the AHL.
Eric Gryba is plus 8 – best amongst Ottawa D-Men
My guess is other teams are noticing him. His contract is up at the end of the year so nobody will trade for him, he’s not the points on the board rental type. He will surely go to arbitration, it would be to his disadvantage to avoid this process especially with his decent numbers.
Keep Gryba please. His plus – minus is no fluke. Neither is Spezza’s. The game has passed by Spezza. Get what you can for him now before it is too late.
Or +/- is absolute bullshit and not a very solid indicator of one’s impact on the ice. How can you conclusively state that every single + or – is a direct effect of each player on the ice at the time a goal is scored….?
Gryba has played half the games and minutes that Spezza/Karlsson have played and against much weaker competition. This is not to take away from Gryba, I like what he brings, but +/- is crap.
Totally agree that +/- doesn’t capture everything. Karlsson sees a lot of ice time, and plays against a high quality of competition. His defensive game can definitely still improve, but he also basically accounts for half of our break-outs (maybe some exaggeration, but not by a lot). I’m not sure you can say the same for Spezza though. The coach has actually been shielding him from top offensive lines, and the Turris line usually gets the opposing team’s top D pairing these days.
You better go to the advanced stats site to prove the QOC. Karlsson/Cowen were running their asses off in thier own zone against the top two lines. It wasn’t them who kept them in check.
he’s a solid 6th defenceman – a very solid one.
and EK is -14, worst of all Ottawa D-men. Hmmmm…
Leading scorer too. Worth mentioning. And he backchecks when he takes risks up the ice(worth mentioning also).
Agreed. I was being sarcastic.
No he doesn’t, he floats. You have beer goggles on 24-7?
EG62 = Steady Eddie
His ascending plus/minus is a valid indication of his positive progress
over the last month.
Deserving of more ice time ? Probably
Listened to the first 2 periods on the radio while grocery shopping. The lady next to me in the aisle jumped out of her socks, after I yelped, when Da Costa scored. I felt really bad, but she understood when I told her what happened.
I got home between periods and caught the last 20 on TV. The Sens played a much better 3rd visually, then what it sounded like through the opening 40. When you break it all down, Andy kept the Sens in it, but outside of being out-shot, the remainder of the game was pretty good. An even 50% on faceoffs. Sens took the extra penalty and paid for it, but 3 to 2 isn’t bad. And the hits were 24-22 in favor of the Pens. Again, very close.
While we didn’t get the 2 points, we stayed with them in other aspects while rolling 4 lines. I’ll take 1 point any day against the 1st team in the league, in their barn. I have a feeling tonight we will see an outburst in our offense, which will catch St. Louis off guard.
Go Sens Go!!
Wow how much did you buy if you shopped for two periods?
Honestly, only a weeks worth. I just took my time, spent more time listening and circling around the same aisles, lol.
Nice pic at the top of Ottawa’s two biggest liabilities, PM should consider sitting both of them out for a few games to see if this team would do better without them as they did last yr.
Sit out your #1a/b centre and your Norris Trophy winning defenceman… Brilliant.
Sadly but true, it worked last year and our young players are better this year. May not be brilliant as far as Karlsson but Spezza? Maybe needs a BOBO rest like Phillips.
I could not agree more. We won without Spezza and Karlsson last year. We cannot play without Karlsson now however. His defensive game (decision making) has improved a lot. At this rate his plus-minus will be better by the end of the year. Cannot say the same for Spezza. Trade him now while you can get something for him. I also disagree with earlier comments that plus-minus does not mean anything. What? Is there anyone who thinks that Spezza is not the worst defender on the team? The plus-minus corroborates it.
+/- is only a telling stat when someone wants it to be. Just as you used it to say Spezza sucks. Granted, he has struggled this year, but he is a career +57.
Ek’s +/- is the worst among Ottawa D-men. His is a career -27. Will it ever improve? Maybe you should trade him now while you can get something for him.
The argument is the defensive play THIS YEAR. WHo cares what they did in the past. Karllson does a great job getting out of the zone but is still on for way more goals against. This has contributed to the problem. Subtract EK’s power play points and the 5 on 5 picture becomes even worse.
OK. EK is -14 THIS YEAR! Worst of all Sens D-men. Does his +/- mean that he sucks and should be benched or traded? Of course not.
only reason he’s minus is because Cowen is getting blown by on almost every shift. I saw at least 5-6 examples of guys going wide and going right in on Andy last night. With Methot – his numbers would look better but then Jerry Seinfeld would be poison with someone else.
You proved my point Jacques. +/- means squat until you want it to.
I wonder if coaches look at plus minus and say ah no problem. I would strongly say that even though its not the most important stat it is a stat that shows a players effectiveness with his linemates.
I’m sure they look at it, but only in context with other performance stats and indicators.
I agree but how can you say it is BS or in your words means squat.
It is BS or means squat when used by itself to describe a player’s performance. Spezza sucks and is -. Karlsson is awesome and is -. Zibby is great two-way 200′ player and he too is -.
I agree Karlson is awesome when not defending around the net. There lies his weakness and a majority of 65 goals against. Again not all his fault but a part of it. That is where +_ gives a differential picture of the offensive vs defensive game of a player(line). -15 can’t mean your general defensive game is good especially when you are the leading point getter. No need to throw him under the bus just needs to make some adjustments.
He was a minus when playing with Methot. Can’t blame that on Cowen.
Jacques, your bs facts are terrible!
Methot got blown by. Cowen did not get blown by that many times. Karlsson was a negative even with Methot.
No it doesn’t mean he needs to be traded, but it does mean that Karlsson has to play differently…
Similarly with Spezza, he can’t play this way and we be successful…
So, EK can be minus and he has to play differently, but Spezza is minus and we can’t be successful with him? EK is a career minus player. Will he ever learn? Can we be successful with him being a minus player?
I’ll agree on the Norris Trophy defenceman, unfortunately our old 1C is but a decimal point of what he once was.
Very constructive, SensChirp. Thanks for adding to the conversation. Jerk
Lol. I appreciate that, Chirp. As much as I think the opinion is crazy, the thing that keeps me coming back to your site is, for the most part, one of the most civilized places for Sens fans to discuss hockey. The internet can be insane. But, here we get a wide variety of opinions, and people generally show great respect for each other, even in disagreement!
This is the capital of the politest country in the world. What do you expect.
lol your two favourite players, right?
I don’t know Spezza personally, but he’s always been one to be really hard on himself. There’s a lot of people saying “he’s not captain material”, and “he’s not trying hard enough”, but I’m afraid that’s not fair.
First, we have no idea what his leadership is like in the locker room, Second, he could be nursing an injury we have no idea about, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he were.
I flip-flop too, and sometimes think we’d be better off without him, but I can’t help thinking there’s no one harder on Jason Spezza than himself. I bet he feels horrible about last night, yet he might not physically be able to fix it.
My views differ, its not the locker room where leadership is needed, its on the ice. the difference between old C and new C is that after the team was down, Alfie was the guy, to pick himself up, dust off the snow and show the rest of the team its not over till its over (Ok, “probably not” wasn’t one of them). The Captain is the guy that rights the ship, not hang his head in defeat, that shows the rest of the team A LOT. Reason he wasn’t considered for Team Can. waaayy to slow, his stick is only so long, he needs to skate too. Its not about trying hard enough, its about keeping your team on the same page… Positive, WINNING!! but he’s not that guy.
That’s the Captains job… You know, that movie on Netflix, where the captain said that speach, and the team rallied back to win the game.. well.. That’s what we need.
I don’t agree… Spezza never takes responsibility for his poor play… I’ve never heard him say “I made a mistake, I need to improve”… His response is always something like “it’s a team game, and a team loss”… I wish he was more like Lehner, at least Lehner is honest about what is happening and therefore will do something to make things better…
He takes responsibility all the time, where have you been?
I disagree… I’ll listen to his interview after last night’s game (after work though)… But, I can’t imagine he took responsibility for skating out of the defensive zone without the puck… I’m sure he either redirects or ignores the questions…
And, by the way, I’m just as surprised as you that people actually believe in Spezza… I guess you feel the opposite, how can anyone not believe in Spezza’s awesomeness…
I don’t know what to say… So weird… Such drastic opinions…
quote about last night’s overtime goal from Spezza “The puck was just on the wall, there and Neal lifted my stick. [Greening], I think, went for a line change, didn’t realize they had the puck. So, just a bit of a miscue. It happens. I think he’d been out there for a while. Andy makes a good first save but the puck squirts right to them.”
Seems to me Spezza is blaming Greening for heading off, and not for himself swinging well out of the defensive zone…
These are the types of responses I expect from Spezza, and I stand by what I said, I wish he was more like Lehner…
He could have taken ownership, could have said oopsie, or whatever, but instead he blamed someone else…
And my point here is that Spezza doesn’t feel that he did anything wrong, in the same situation he would do the same thing, because he feels he behaved correctly….
Last year’s team was so easy to cheer for… This year is really really hard… I wish some of our guys were injured…
Think we need a new mascot then!
SNOOPY SENIOR wants to know when the game day post will be available
Moments after the line up is.
Pretty depressing couple of games. Pretty clear that our best players don’t match up.
For example: As this season drags on I’m less excited and more worried about the fact that Turris and MacArthur are on our top line.
Two very good players, but their current status exposes a lack of elite talent.
You’ve got to give Yost Credit. The numbers Yost had on Gryba way back in November predicted Gryba’s strong play long before you guys ever noticed right now. Personally I think Yost is spot on when it comes to his player analysis using stats; Condra has great possession numbers; results in a great chemistry with Conacher and SDC.
People harp on Yost because they think he is using stats to defend specific angles that aren’t true. If Ryan gets a hattrick and is 52% corsi and Macarthur gets 0 points is -1 and is 70% corsi, he will say macarthur has a better chance of sustaining his output, than Ryan sustaining his output. He isn’t saying Mac is better than Ryan, but individually speaking its all about sustained production and/or regression. But people take Yosts words and think he means to say Macarthur is better than Ryan. Two different and completely indirect statements really
That being said Gryba has been a welcomed suprise for the team this year, finding his nieche as a #5 dman.
I thought his play last year was good as well. Played against all the top lines with Methot and did a reasonable job. He gets shit on when he makes a single error when others get to keep making the same errors over and over.
I agree with you Alcatraz. Yost seems to be a very polarizing figure for hockey fans. I personally love the advanced statistics he presents in his blogs. They give you a different perspective of what may be going on out there on the ice, and I find myself paying closer attention to certain aspects because of it. Sometimes people might not agree with the interpretation, but hard to argue against the data; it’s there for people to draw their own conclusions. Different strokes for different folks, I guess; it’s what makes the world go around.
Problem with Yost is that he and his buddies pick their whipping boys and run with it on Twitter and the blogs and as fans you see this shit and they lose credibility because most is opinion based on a few selected stats.
However his whipping boy this year is Cowen and it’s a fact that Cowen has struggled this season.
Ya so what if you are trying to sell advanced stats keep the personal judgements out of it unless you are a hockey legend.
Just to shit on Cowen a little… It’s really too bad he didn’t punch Kadri in the head… If he would have beat him up, I would be able to excuse his poor defensive play… As is, I’m disappointed in him…
Cowen did, he was the first guy on him!
He just hugged him, he didn’t swing… He was just looking at him…
Smith on the other hand (I love this guy), was swinging away… So weird again, we both see the same thing, but both come out with opposite conclusions, so weird… I’ll have to watch in slow motion I guess…
Really that’s a hug? I hope you don’t hug your mom like that!
I don’t remember Yost predicting Gryba’s strong play. Was it in a blog?
He literally never predicted Gryba’s play, However he had Gryba as the best defensive defenceman when taking quality of competition and prevention of defensive zone entries into consideration using advanced stats. He also had Cowen having the worst numbers. It was way back in November, when Zibanejad was playing really well for his first 10 games.
Nasty Puck Daddy…
1-0 Burke I guess?
Ryan was on Burke’s roster. Yes Burke made those comments, but he still wanted him on the team.
Those quotes would destroy just about anyone though. It’s not like Stevie Y was quoted as saying anything like that about St Louis, and he’s the biggest example of what they’re trying to say. Hard to compare imo.
You have to wonder how many people watch him play versus looking at his stats.
I still really like Ryan… He’s always helping out his linemates… He passes, he shoots, he hits, he backchecks… He’s a good team player… He’s a keeper in my mind…
A solid 1 point last night and fans are whining about Spezza and who should be traded and who’s plus/minus means something versus who’s is make believe. Seriously guys, we took the best team in the East to the brink and almost beat them in regulation. Did anyone expect us to be better than Pittsburgh this year? No, so just be happy with the growth and understand that rebuilding takes patience and time, and our’s is coming but it’s not here yet.
GO SENS GO!!!
Yeah… It is too bad that a pretty solid game ended the way it did… For some reason it left a sour taste in our mouth… It got me thinking, who do I want out there in overtime? Better yet, who do I not want out there in overtime… Who is it that I don’t trust on the team???
We have no control over that. You want to try and match up against their top players while also giving your top players their best shot at scoring. Hard to do on the road.
That was probably what irritated me most last night. It seemed MacLean decided to protect the tie in OT. We didn’t see one offensively gifted duo in OT. Pit is so good that they can just role their goal-scorers. I had no clue how we were ever suppose to win in OT. If we were solid in the SO, I’d get the strategy. The reality is that we were lucky to get 1 point against that team, but why not go for the win when you get them to OT. I was left really puzzled by the player choices.
That doesn’t seem accurate… Why would you send Spezza out there if you want to protect the tie… It is puzzling, except Spezza is a superstar, and is our leader, and our captain, and should be the most dependable person on the team… but he’s not…
Spezza was on with Greening. I think there is some analyses out there to show how effective his (Greening) scoring prowess has been this year. Why not put Spezza out with Zibanejad? There are all kinds of other possible combinations, but i’m just saying match up some of your top 6 for a few shits.
Spezza has had the best chemistry with Stone and Zibanejad this year, I would love to see a line involving Zibanejad and Stone on Spezza’s wing. However that won’t happen because you have to sit out Greening or Conacher and keep SDC at Center.
Yeah, I agree that Spezza’s looked best with Zibanejad on his wing. I’m not sure if the opposite is true though. Zibanjead is still playing fine, but seemed to be more succesful with Michalek and Conacher. Stone and Spezza really seemed to work well! Trying to figure out the ‘optimal’ line-up this year just hurts my brain (lol).
I feel bad for Zibanejad having to play with Spezza… Does he look happy? Not to me, it looks miserable to play with someone that never helps you, never covers up your mistakes, always expects you to clean up their garbage… I think Michalek, Zibanejad, Conacher is a MUCH MUCH Better line than Michalek, Spezza, Zibanejad…
The problem is that as long as Spezza,Smith is on this team, a Michalek ,Zib,and Conacher line will never get the ice time they deserve because Paul Maclean will force himself to play his vets more, eventually as the game goes by Michalek will end up playing with Spezza for the third period to increase Michalek’s ice time(again vets play more) while Zib and Conacher sit.
That’s one issue I have with Spezza, he’s taking away other people’s development time…
Stones injured, but I believe they both play the same wing.
Spezz flunked chemistry – I have his grade eleven grades in front of me – Yost provided me with these!
ok that’s funny, I don’t care if you love Spezza or not… good one
What about being a superstar or elite means you have to be dependable defensively? This is a mistake fans are making, you’re expecting a different player than you have seen for a decade. Total bs! Spezza is not the first offensive superstar, the league is littered with them. Hell we have a 2nd one on d too.
Spezza plays well offensively sometimes… He plays bad defensively all the time…
The mistake is thinking you can win with someone like this as your leader…
Karlsson? We have 2 of them. If you can’t get used to this style of play you’re cheering for the wrong team. And as I’ve been saying, I’m not convinced Karlsson will be on a cup winning team, I hope so, but his d in the playoffs needs to remove all floating.
Karlsson is playing weird this year, he’s rushing in every single time… I’m hoping he adjusts his game…
I cheered for this team with D’aigle, Yashin, and now Spezza… But I hate those types of players… It’s embarrassing to talk to fans of other teams about these guys… I much prefer someone like Bergeron… I even believe someone like Ribiero would be better for us than Spezza… Spezza is a coaching nightmare, and I completely sympathise with MacLean…
Karlsson is not bad defensively, he just makes extra risky choices offensively…
That’s what elite offensive players are though. An elite offensive player who also plays good to elite defense will be a generational talent because it’s so rare and they have it all. It’s awesome Karlsson can be one with only the offense.
Bergeron is a terrible example of a 1st line C. I like his game, but he is not what you build your team around, he’s a guy you want on a winning team. Also, can’t expect our team to be built like the Bruins, BM has very different philosophies.
“I like his game, but he is not what you build your team around, he’s a guy you want on a winning team.”
There are contradictions in that, the Bruins were built around him into a Stanley cup winning team, and now they are a winning team today.
The Bruins were not built around Bergeron, come on. Do Tim Thomas, Chara, Lucic, Rask not ring a bell, among others? Why do you think Krecji gets so much 1st line play.
Bergeron debuted as a rookie way back in 2003-2004, way before those guys came along.
I would gladly trade Spezza and lots more for Bergeron…
And this is why BM is the GM.
I disagree. A generational talent is a player that spends so much time on the offensive zone and score that he really does not have to play defense because he is a magician with the puck while the opposition is always busy trying take the puck away from him. Jagr in his prime, Bure, Lemeiux were generational talents.
I don’t agree, but I hear what you are saying. But in his prime Spezza was that. Bergeron will never be that.
Do I wish we had a Crosby instead of Spezza, sure, but we don’t and Spezza is what he is, not going to get anywhere just whining about it for years on end. Try to make the best of it.
Are you Matt Spezza?
HOCKEY is about both zones – you’ve never played I can tell.
Fuck you Jacques, not every NHL player is a 2 way player. I know that’s a complex thought, but I’ll give you some time to catch up.
You only have 5mins of OT, and the Sens are bad at the SO this season, so I’d have to think that he was probably hoping for a Spezza ridiculous goal miracle or something.
I’m hoping the coach is proving to the GM what Spezza really is…
what he is is really bad – move man – offensive zone moves a little quicker – defensive zone turtle. Thats effort, desire, work man. I can’t understand why MaClean has him out there so much.
No problem with Spezza out there. But, give him someone to work with. Greening in OT? How about Zibanejad or Ryan w/ Spezza? Go for the win and pair your scoring threats together! Against a lesser team that only has maybe one elite scoring pair, then I get it. Put on your defensive guys against their scoring threats, and let your offensive guys play against weaker competition. But, against PIT that was never going to happen. Crosby goes off. Malkin goes on.
Looked like Greening was trying to change during the goal, maybe they were trying to get him a better winger but in someone else’s rink was harder to get their change in time. Really hard to debate to the level fans are without all the behind the scenes facts.
Mostly true, but I am starting to wonder exactly what pieces have been put in place for our future as an elite team. Karlsson, Turris, Lehner, Zibanejad, Ceci, possibly Lazar on the way and maybe we sign Bobby Ryan. So…one elite a few very good and a few fingers-crossed.
I’m a Sens fan for life, but I’m adjusting expectations for the mid-term. Hope I’m wrong.
Karlsson is a generational talent, no other team in the league has one.
Puempel should be an elite goal scorer eventually. Cowen will be an elite TWD, not getting into the debate just saying he will. Lehner should be an elite goaltender. Bobby Ryan is at least above average. Lazar could be elite one day, maybe even Ceci, hard to tell this early.
Turris I’m not sure about, right now he looks like the prototypical 1b C, which is best on the 2nd line in the end, but if he could grow just a bit further offensively he won’t be elite, but he could be true 1st line material. This is why I’m in no rush to get rid of Spezza, his skills are still elite offensively.
Not sold on Zibanejad as elite, but I like him so far.
How many elite players does a team need?
I think Ceci has better numbers than Karlsson at the same age… And I also believe Zibanejad has similar numbers to Spezza at the same age…
I’m pretty sure both those guys are elite… But, we’ll have to wait and see…
Haha, random false stat of the day right there! Can always depend on fans for these.
Look up the numbers bud, they aren’t even close to each other.
You also got take into consideration that Spezza was playing on a stacked team involving Chara, Alfredsson, Hossa and Havlat. Zibanejad has not even had the luxury of centering talents like them. Spezza was the best center on that team with Radek Bonk being the second line center. Zibanejad is behind Spezza and Turris in the center depth chart on this present team, so there is no way in hell you should expect Zibanejad having similar productions to Spezza when Spezza was Zibanejad’s age. However you can’t deny that fact that the potential is there for Zibanejad being a Burgeronesque center
I’m not going to debate false stats. Read what he wrote, no consideration there and the stats as your boy Yost likes to quote, are not even close.
Ceci and Karlsson are elite no doubt.
I hope you are right because I like all the players you mention.
But I’m not sure there’s any evidence yet that Puemple, Cowen or Lehner will be in the top ten in the NHL at their position one day.
When I look at the top teams in the league I see each with two to three players who were CLEARLY destined for great things once they made the NHL or in many cases on or before their draft days.
That’s the difference between good teams and contenders. At one time the Senators had a team like that, but not anymore.
If we need 2-3 elite players I think we have that, if you want 5+ you have to win a draft lottery several times and hope the league awards the winning pick after a lockout to your bankrupt franchise … um I mean get lucky.
I’ve previously spoken on Lehner, the proof is there, the pre-NHL rankings are there, the family history is there and his numbers have been pretty good when given a shot over the years. Not sure what leads you to doubt him?
That was so obvious it was embarrassing to everyone except Bettman.
There are other ways. Looking at the Blues tonight and I don’t see any generational talent or even all that many truly elite players. Just a very solid team, well coached and built over time. That’s the kind of team I’ve been hoping the Senators could build. Having my doubts this week though.
I would be very happy with their team right now, though they’ve been on the doorstep for a few years now and still very little to show for it.
Strong team composition, but so far no proof they have what it takes to win it all. Tarasenko is an elite talent, just his rookie year, but he might put up 40+ goals in his prime.
Crosby and Ovechkin are generational talents IMO
Agreed, and if you were to pick one on d right now who’d it be? How many generations has it been since the last OFD he’s compared to?
I would rather have a Duncan Keith or Drew Doughty TBH. Mike Green has done exactly what Karlsson is doing and had a better +- too.
Karlsson has to continue putting up points while getting better defensively to be even on the same level as the Elite D in the league. (Chara, Keith, Doughty, pre-Lidstrom)
Karlsson is great but until he proves he can do it all, like the guys above, then he aint Elite, yet.
so is Karlsson lets be serious here.
Well yes, but I was referring to the fact he said no other team in the league has a generational talent.
Actually I was saying no other team has a Karlsson. Yes there are other generational talents.
Time to finish the rebuild! Leadership group + a few others have to go. Too many young guys in Bingo are ready – we’re clogging up their development.
Nothing solid about that 1 point last night man or Spezza’s game. Remove those rose-colored glasses!
Yost is the biggest misuser of mathematics I have ever seen since the advertising industry. Pick any article and you will find mistakes in his assumptions or conclusions. Nice that he likes stats, he just needs to learn how to use them more accurately. You can’t afford to be wrong when talking facts, yet he always finds a way. He belongs with the other frauds on that website.
Not really sure how you are interpreting the faults in his results, but from what I see, his results are quite representative of the players we are watching play as of right now. Cowen sucks, Spezza is a defensive liability, Michalek can’t score because his possession numbers suck balls, Macarthur has amazing posession numbers resulting in his consistent play; All these observation are quite consistent with Yost’s numbers.
i agree , some people on here when they don’t hear the message they like , well the other guy(or Yost in this case) is an idiot!
Cowen and Spezza both can’t skate to keep up in this league. Now a good manager is paid to make the tough decisions. Your move MURRAY!
Or some people don’t give a rats ass what Yost says as all he does is runs numbers and doesn’t actually watch the fucking games.
It is like when you bring an engineer into a place of business and get them to come up with optimal rates/staffing etc….they are usually so off it isn’t even funny. They only account for numbers and nothing else, why anyone still relies solely on this approach is beyond me.
Do some of his posts and stats have relevance? Sure….are they the be all and end all like he tries to make it seem….absolutely not
Or you know maybe people come on here to read Chirp and not to read Yost because they know Yost is a fraud who doesn’t even watch each game he writes on.
Do you have a Twitter?
BLAH BLAH BLAH
You need to back up your attack on Yost with some solid FACTS of your own
I’ve previously pointed out some of his mistakes over the years, feel free to read my discuss history. Facts are there!
I guess school just got out…
WOOHOOO LEHNERS one start for the month!!
Figured with back-to-backs. I think he’ll have a bounce-back game!
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