Monday News and Notes (Da Costa Update)

SensChirp June 16, 2014 1,358
Monday News and Notes (Da Costa Update)

(UPDATE 11:57 AM)- Some interesting news from Bob McKenzie just now.  Not entirely unexpected but McKenzie tweeted that the Senators were not willing to give restricted free agent forward Stephane Da Costa a one way contract and that he’ll most likely be heading to the KHL.  Da Costa was caught up in a bit of a numbers game with so many centres already pushing for roster spots in Ottawa.  Good opportunity for Da Costa though. Best of luck to him.

As always, thanks to everyone for keeping the conversation going during my absence.

Celebrated my 29th birthday on Friday, played in a golf tournament on Saturday and then Father’s Day on Sunday. A busy few days but glad to see the conversation continued on without me. And not surprisingly, a lot of that conversation centered on Jason Spezza. Hope you guys aren’t tired of the topic because it’s going to be front and centre for the next couple weeks.

Let’s play a little catch up on some news and notes from the weekend.

-The Calgary offer. Lots of talk about this over the weekend as Bruce Garrioch suggested that the Calgary Flames would be willing to offer Jiri Hudler, Mikael Backlund, Dennis Wideman and one of their second and third round picks. It’s an interesting offer and maybe the first glimpse we’ve seen of what teams are actually offering. Backlund is obviously the key piece in that deal. Hudler is a useful player but that Wideman contract is pretty atrocious. It will be interesting to see if other teams try to structure deals like this, including a quality piece but at the same time asking the Senators to take on a bad contract. Pretty confident in saying Ottawa has no interest in taking on a bad contract in this deal.

-The conversation around that Calgary deal should be a pretty short one though as it’s believed they are one of the team’s on Spezza’s no trade list. Like the Edmonton Oilers, the Flames have interest but will have a hard time convincing Spezza to move to a different Canadian market.

-Lots of talk about the Brad May story that surfaced over the weekend. Essentially, May is suggesting that Spezza didn’t flat out demand a trade but rather asked that the club show some sort of commitment towards building a winning hockey team. Something Eugene Melnyk has gotten away from the last couple seasons. For what it’s worth, I’ve heard something similar. It also came up in last summer’s Alfredsson debacle. There are a few layers to this Spezza thing but a big part of it is certainly the desire to play on a winning team. The idea that this is all about a player that is tired of being blamed for losses is pretty ridiculous.

-On Thursday, AJ Jakubec confirmed what many others have speculated and that’s that the St. Louis Blues are making a pitch for Spezza and it will include restricted free agent centre Patrick Berglund. While the Senators have interest in Berglund, they are going to need some other pieces to make that a deal worth considering.

-And one last Spezza rumour. Keep an eye on the Dallas Stars.  They seem to be coming up more and more lately.  And obviously can’t rule out the Nashville Predators.  The nice thing about the situation Bryan Murray finds himself in is that a number of Western Conference rivals seem to have an interest in Spezza.  It’s hard to say without knowing how strong the offers are but this certainly seems like a bit of a bidding war.

-And we’ll close with a non-Spezza rumour as over on HockeyBuzz, there was an article about the Chicago Blackhawks having interest in both Zack Smith and Colin Greening. Smith has drawn interest from Chicago in the past but he is obviously a player the Senators like. Greening is an interesting one though because I can confirm that the Murray shopped him around quite a bit last season. With that big contract extension about to kick in, I’m sure Ottawa would listen if a team came calling.

  • Chris

    It’s good to hear that Spezza just wants to win here and didn’t really demand for a trade. I’m just so sick and tired of our team being on a budget, you can’t possibly build a legit contender with the money we have even with the genius Bryan Murray as our gm.

    • jimmyjohnson

      (Some of these kids are already locked in to good deals, but at some point in the next few years, the following applies)

      Turris, Lehner, Zibanejad, Wiercioch, Stone, Ceci, Hoffman, Cowen, Pageau, Lazar

      All of these players will cost more within the next 3-4 years.

      Until they fail to sign one of them strictly due to budgetary concerns, I will not criticize management/ownership for sticking to the budget.

      • A-Train

        Thanks for this comment. I feel exactly the same way.

      • Zelle

        I’d rather it not get to that though…

  • jimmyjohnson

    You should mention that Berglund is undergoing shoulder surgery this offseason and is an RFA. I don’t see how he can be of very much value in a deal like this.

    • SensChirp

      Good point on the shoulder surgery. Would certainly be a bit of a red flag.

      • MethotToMyMadness

        I was just about to mention this, I read that story.

      • jimmyjohnson

        Happy Birthday btw

    • FistsofNeil25

      We don’t need to be acquiring more damaged goods. Murray would look like a fool if he took on Berglund at this point, especially if his shoulder injury is as severe as it’s rumored to be and he requires major surgery.
      We already acquired Michalek and Cheechoo as damaged goods in the Heatley trade. We don’t have to take the same risk with Berglund.

    • Dirk-Diggler

      Can you even trade for an injured player? I mean a player being traded needs to pass certain medical tests by the acquiring organization so it’s not looking like Berglund will be coming to Ottawa.

  • Tooks

    Wow so I chcked out those tweets from Brad May and wow, I have a new found respect for Spezza. This is going to cause another fallout in the Melnyk camp. Not wanting to improve the club after 2 of its Leaders demanded he does so.

  • jimmyjohnson

    Also, I’m pretty sure the Greening talk from last season came directly from the organization, and it was in fact stating that multiple teams had called Murray about Greening, not the other way around.

    • SensChirp

      Came real close to a deal with Edmonton

      • jimmyjohnson

        Any word on what they were giving?

  • FistsofNeil25

    That rumored Calgary offer is interesting. I don’t like the idea of adding Wideman and his 5.25M salary but overall that trade probably makes us a decent team short term. The thing is that this Spezza trade shouldn’t be done with the Sens short term interests in mind. Murray needs to be trying to acquire pieces that will help us when we’re ready to contend, not about what could possibly help us squeak into the playoffs.

    And of course there’s also the fact that Spezza likely wouldn’t waive for Calgary. Anyways just for fun, this is what the roster could look like:

    MacArthur – Turris – Ryan
    Hudler – Backlund – Stone
    Hoffman – Zibanejad – Lazar
    Greening – Smith – Neil

    Methot – Karlsson
    Cowen – Wideman
    Wiercioch – Gryba
    Phillips

    Anderson
    Lehner

    That’s a pretty soft and small top 9. It’s definitely not the strongest roster but it would probably be good for a wild card spot. That trade would also put us pretty much right at the team’s internal cap figure.

    It’s all just for conversation sake. We all know that trade won’t be happening.

    • Tooks

      What did you do with Ceci? :P

      • FistsofNeil25

        I demoted him. Doesn’t really matter. Swap his name with Gryba then.

  • jimmyjohnson

    If Ottawa was offered something like the Wideman contract (who would easily be one of the top-4 D in Ottawa) and the key piece in the deal upgraded from a Berglund to a Shattenkirk (just as an example of value), then Ottawa should be all over that.

    • FistsofNeil25

      Wideman is a good puckmover but man is he terrible defensively. Adding him to that trade his just a way of them dumping his salary on us. Nobody would want to touch that contract.

      Since we’re a budget team, I wouldn’t want Wideman eating up 5.25M of our payroll.

  • MethotToMyMadness

    Hearing the news on TSN 1200 today about Chicago and other teams, and how they are looking to bolster the C position (to match up against teams like LA), it makes sense they’d have interest in Smith. But he’s one of those guys I’d like to see Ottawa keep him around, because we’d miss him in that 3rd C position badly.

    As new as the May news is, I think many of us kinda figured it wasn’t all Spezza. Nice to get the confirmation on that. I think everyone wants to be on a winning team. Kinda makes you think that no-matter what happens this year, we aren’t expected to be a big spender.

    And even though Ottawa won’t bit on that speculated Calgary offer, this is the type of news Ottawa Fans should be excited about. It means that things are starting to heat up and as teams in the West start to forge a game plan to acquire him, other teams will need to act in order to maintain a balance or stay competitive.

    • sbs138

      problem is though that Smith shouldn’t be a third line centre.

      • Doc

        Very debatable.

        • sbs138

          let me start…do you think he is a 3rd or 4th line centreman on this team? I’d say 4th, with a lot of PK time. However, he did put up quite a bit of goals last year. Either way, I’m putting him on the 4th line.

          • Doc

            It all depends on the role you want to give him.

            This will also affect what kind of wingers he gets.

    • Mr. Seller

      Smith is exactly the kind of player teams like LA and BOS go for. You can be sure teams looking to bolster up physically after seeing LA’s success will come knocking on BM’s door. I like Smith and feel that if he had better wingers, he would contribute more on the scoresheet. I would rather keep him but if teams are ready to overpay, you have to listen and be ready to pull the trigger.

  • Doc

    I’m older than you, Chirp? Huh…

    • SensChirp

      Ha. First time I’ve put my age out there I guess, eh?

      • Doc

        Yeah I guess. You tend to imagine posters at certain age I guess, so I was a bit surprised.

        Happy B-Day by the way!

  • FistsofNeil25

    If Chicago wants to take Greening off our hands then that would be great. Smith is another story though. If we were to trade Zack we would just have to look elsewhere to replace his size, physicality, and faceoff ability. I’m not opposed to trading Smith, but it would have to be a trade that makes us a better team. On the other hand, I would honestly give Greening away at this point to get his contract off the books.

    • Doc

      Management is really high on Smith, so I would presume he’s not being shopped.

      • Frank

        If the rumored trade from the past (Smith for Hjalmarsson) comes up again, they MUST consider it. With Lazar coming, I can see him taking Zach’s spot and allowing the Sens to upgrade on D. I like Smith but I like Hjalmarsson more

        • Zelle

          Smith plays the Wing well, and it would give the team flexibility at the FO circle as he’s good there too. No reason if Lazar comes that it has to be at the expense of Smith.

          • Frank

            You’re missing the point. I’m saying if the Sens can get Hjalmarsson from Chicago, I’d gladly move Smith and replace him in the lineup with Lazar

    • Don Ciccio

      If the right deal came along, I would deal Smith with no hesitation. He takes way too many dumb penalties. As far as physicality goes, Greening had 225 hits while Smith had 175 and Greening played 6 less games. They both make about the same amount of money and get the same amount of points. The only thing Smith does better is faceoffs and that’s because Greening doesn’t play centre. IMO Smith can be easily replaced by someone like Grant.

      Spezza + Smith for Hjalmarsson and Sharp

      • Zelle

        Can you really say that Greening’s hits are impressive or hampering the opposition though? You can say that about Methot, Neil, or Smith hits. Also you can fix dumb penalties easier than you can fix lazyness, imo. Not sure what was up with Greening last season but most of the games he played lazy. Also Smith is much, much better in the D zone.

        • Don Ciccio

          I disagree with everything you just said……If there is one thing that you can’t call Greening, is lazy. Also, show me some of Smith’s hits and compare them to Greening’s and I guarantee you that they are not anymore impressive. Why do you think that Greening played with Spezza so much a couple of years ago, answer is because he was the guy that was the first guy back at all times.

          • Zelle

            I liked Greening before, but this past season he was very disappointing. What he did a couple of years ago has no bearing on my comment.

  • Pasky

    So looks like the Rangers are buying out Brad Richards sometime this week according to TSN. We know that the Rangers always make a splash so I wonder if they make an offer for Spezza? I know that the Sens don’t want to trade him in the East but he and Nash have some history playing internationally, and they have the depth to make a good offer.

    Otherwise, I can see them making a bid for Thorton or Marleau if either one of them would be willing to waive to go there.

    • FistsofNeil25

      NYR honestly has nothing to offer. They don’t own a 2014 or a 2015 1st round pick (both were traded to Tampa for Marty), they have one of the weakest prospects pools in hockey. I would be interested in Staal, Stepan, Kreider or Hagelin but beyond that there’s nothing intriguing on their roster or in their system.

    • jimmyjohnson

      When Ottawa talked about ending the country club atmosphere back in 2008, they didn’t trade Spezza, Heatley, Fisher, Alfredsson….They let Redden walk and tried to change the dynamic with the players they had.

      San Jose is better positioned to do the same and still be a high caliber team. They’ve let Boyle walk. I doubt they move any of their core.

  • Bob

    The thing with Spezza wanting to play for a winning team.. it looked like he sure didn’t want to help out here! Also, this team is a few years away from competing for a cup let alone the East. So to update the team, still.. Years away from competing.. did you see how fast LA was..? 19 just doesn’t have that kinda of speed

    • Sandy

      I hate that Spezza is leaving because the f’in owner won’t spend money, BUT both Alfie & Spezza had the chance to walk when the team jettisoned Fisher & Kelly.
      But both decided to stay during the re-build.
      Alfie left with nothing for a return and Spezza, let’s hope the Sens get something decent.
      Imagine what the return could have been in 2011 for Alfie & Spezza.
      These two have been the best the Sens had. These are the two that hurt the Sens the most..

  • spezzerman

    I can understand Spezza wanting to leave if Ryan and MaCarther arent extended this summer but I am not sure what Spezza and Alfie were expecting during a rebuild. They knew what to expect. I have no problem not spending the last few years. I expect this summer would be when they start spending. If they dont this summer, I would definitely understand Spezza wanting to leave.

  • SensChirp
    • FistsofNeil25

      3 years @ 10M? What a joke!

    • Dirk-Diggler

      That makes me think that the Sens were never serious about Hemsky staying. Pretty sad that they didn’t offer a true contract to him.

      • FistsofNeil25

        Let the low-ball offers continue! That’s just embarrassing. It’s safe to say we won’t be very active on the free agent market.

        • jimmyjohnson

          Why are you guys mad? Look at what Hemsky has done since signing his last contract? This is a fair offer based on the caliber of his performance over the lifetime of his contract. What’s it going to be like when he has to play with someone other than Spezza and his production drops to Edmonton levels? You’ll all be praying for his to be shipped out of town by the 2016 deadline. He’ll get more elsewhere but he isn’t worth much more than $4m.

          You all should be happy. I’d rather that money go to Zib, Stone, and Ryan personally………

          • FistsofNeil25

            Listen, I don’t care about Hemsky to be honest. I just find it infuriating that we overpay replacement level talent like Greening and Phillips and then low-ball the shit our of actually top six talented players.

            Hemsky isn’t going to be the different between us being a contender or not, but he’s probably the best option this team has for a short term fix in our top six. Who’s going to fill out our second line?

          • jimmyjohnson

            Just settle it and wait…

            We’re not at a point to be upset, as a fan base.

            It’s preemptive anger. You’re assuming too much.

            And Greening and Phillips are irrelevant. Literally every team in the league would take that Greening contract, given his size and athleticism. Who knows, maybe he winds up being worth it in terms of production one day too. If we need to move that contract, though, that can be done pretty easily.

            Phillips is a short term legacy contract and he’ll almost definitely move into a coaching role at the end of it (or during it). Don’t fret about 2 years for a lifer at the end of a rebuild.

          • Jordan Hendren

            ” Literally every team in the league would take that Greening contract,”
            I don’t think you understand the meaning of the word “literally”, as it’s been widely reported that Greening was shopped heavily by GMBM at last year’s trade deadline, and had ZERO takers.

          • Doc

            Actually, it’s the other way around. Teams were asking Murray about Greening.

          • FistsofNeil25

            That’s what Murray said. Do you actually believe him? Chirp reported that Murray was shopping Greening a fair amount this season. He offered him to NYR for Del Zotto and he was a name involved in trade discussions with Edmonton.

          • jimmyjohnson

            All of it is speculation. The only direct message given was from the org, stating that other teams were asking and we said no.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Sorry, but Murray’s been here long enough that you should know by now not to take everything he says seriously.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Yeah, well I know that when I watch Greening play, I don’t feel like I’m watching a guy who has reached his peak. I think he’ll rebound this year and put up over 30 points while not being a drain to watch.

          • Doc

            Well, it seems a few teams were interested, the main one being Edmonton.

            Look at various boards for other teams, and you’ll see that some think Greening could be a valuable asset. Heck, even my Habs friends want him on their team. He might not score as much as we would want, but he’s big fast and strong, and you need guys like that in the playoffs.

          • jimmyjohnson

            What Doc said.

            Fans are so emotional. Jeez…

          • peetypuck

            Apparently Chicago has interest in Greening. Maybe it’s not such a bad contract after all. Hemsky on the other hand is more fragile than glass. We don’t need another Michalek who misses half the season every year. He’s only worth $3 million at the most because of his unreliability.

          • FistsofNeil25

            It’s a bad contract for a budget team. We’re supposed to be spending wisely aren’t we?

            Chicago is willing and able to spend to the cap. 2.7M per season for Greening barely puts a dent in their team salary structure.
            Why is it bad for Ottawa? We’re better off paying a 4th liner near the league minimum and spend that extra cash on top six forwards or top six defenseman. If we want to spend wisely and operate on such a strict internal budget, we shouldn’t be paying our 4th liners 2.7M per season.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Hey man copying paste that 15 more times please

          • jimmyjohnson

            I think it’s an important point.

            And it was thrice!

          • Andrews theory

            well everybody else thinks its ridiculous.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Everybody else is overreacting to this news, so …yeah, i don’t care.

          • Tooks

            We’re not upset about not having Hemsky, although I think he would be a very good player for us with Turris and Ryan and whatnot but its the fact we lowballed him, straight up joke. Like many said here, if he’s not in our price range, just let him know, dont lowball him and make our Org look like clowns.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Maybe his price range doesn’t fit our view of his value?

        • Tooks

          It is no wonder Alfie left and now Spezza wants out, Melnyk cant or doesnt want to spend to improve this teams. Thats all a player can ask really, will our owner spend to improve our team, if not, whats the point of staying here.

          That offer to Hemsky just makes us look like even bigger idiots.

      • jimmyjohnson

        Look at what Hemsky has done since signing his last contract? This is a fair offer based on the caliber of his performance over the lifetime of his contract. What’s it going to be like when he has to play with someone other than Spezza and his production drops to Edmonton levels? You’ll all be praying for his to be shipped out of town by the 2016 deadline. He’ll get more elsewhere but he isn’t worth much more than $4m.

        You all should be happy. I’d rather that money go to Zib, Stone, and Ryan personally………

        • Dirtysweetness

          I have to agree. Ask any Edmonton fan if they would pay Hemsky more than 3.3 million per year…Quick question: Did Murray sign an extension before Eugene started all of this budget crap? Or was it after?

          • jimmyjohnson

            Pretty sure it was before and after, but definitely his most recent extension was after the rebuild/budget years

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      Why anyone is still willing to spend money on this team is beyond me…

      So mad

      • Dirk-Diggler

        I go to support the players.. I hate the owner… It’s not Zibby’s, Lehners, Turris. Karlsson etc that Eugene and Bryan are choosing to ruin the organizations image.

      • jimmyjohnson

        Why are you guys mad? Look at what Hemsky has done since signing his last contract? This is a fair offer based on the caliber of his performance over the lifetime of his contract. What’s it going to be like when he has to play with someone other than Spezza and his production drops to Edmonton levels? You’ll all be praying for his to be shipped out of town by the 2016 deadline. He’ll get more elsewhere but he isn’t worth much more than $4m.

        You all should be happy. I’d rather that money go to Zib, Stone, and Ryan personally……….

        • SensChirp

          He’ll get 5.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I bet he does, but that doesn’t mean we should pay him $5M

        • bluebuyyoo

          It’s not that they care not retaining Hemsky, it’s because they lowballed him with an offer that they knew would be rejected. If Hemsky was not in their price range or plans, let him know that. If they really wanted him, they should made a serious offer.

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          What when they refuse to sign because uncle Eugene won’t pay them fairytale and then puts the 3rd and 4th lines as ahl guys… Yeah that’s exactly what I want

          Take off the rose colour glasses bro

          • TookieIs100PercentRight

            Hemsky made 5.5 in the last year of his contract. He made around 5.0 previous and 4.5 in the lockout shortened season. There is no (repeat NO) way that he was going to take a 2.0 million paycut to stay here in Ottawa. Murray’s offer was not a serious one. I mean, you’re asking Hemsky to take Phillips money when he’s younger and has actual offensive talent.
            I sure hope they don’t lowball Ryan…
            TOOKS100% OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • bluebuyyoo

      I would guess that Hemsky was only in the Sens plans at a discounted rate that was never going to be accepted. If that is the case, why even bother making a shitty offer that makes them look like lowballing jokers.

      • jimmyjohnson

        As a qualifying offer? That’s why…

        • bluebuyyoo

          Wrong.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I doubt that’s wrong. They would clearly offer more in a negotiation.

          • bluebuyyoo

            It’s wrong. Qualifying offers are for RFAs. UFAs do not require a qualifying offer.

          • jimmyjohnson

            A qualifying offer is a point of contact between one side and the other. I’m well aware of the term “qualifying offer” with respect to RFA negotiations and maintaining rights, but that’s not the exclusive definition of the term.

          • bluebuyyoo

            Now you are making things up to suit yourself. In the hockey world, a qualifying offer only has one meaning and I stated it earlier.

          • peetypuck

            You never ever make your first offer your best offer. That’s what negotiating is all about. With Hemsky’s record I would include a bonus if he plays over 75 games.

    • Aaron 2.0

      Shameful. That offer is a joke. Best of luck to the guy.

    • Doc

      Yeah, but at least we don’t have money issues! Right? RIGHT?!?!

  • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

    We need a Barbados lynch mob

  • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

    Tempted to buy one last Jersey and get it made at the Sens store on site

    Fuck melnyk

    $$

  • sbs138

    Eugene is ruining this team.

  • Tom P

    Hemsky has never put up more than a 20 goal season, he is injury prone, not a good 2-way player and doesn’t deserve more than 4MM, he was never seriously apart of the Sens plans anyways so they were probably hoping for a take a discount or go somewhere else. With Spezza good as gone as well out with the old in with the youth.
    I dislike Euge at this point too, don’t get me wrong but no need to over react on this situation people.
    I am appealed to the Calgary trade not for quality but almost for the bar and how teams like St.Louis and Anaheim will need to raise it a little bit, because that Calgary deal, besides Wideman is not all that bad !

    Going to be a long summer, so let’s not try and go crazy on the first day of offseason, Cheers !

  • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

    I think what the rose coloured glasses fans are failing to see is that the outrage has nothing to do with the specific player, or the specific offer… It had to do with the continued embarrassment about essentially being the nhl welfare team

    • SensChirp

      Exactly. I do envy people that are able to isolate and justify each of these decisions which are clearly influenced by the budget. There is no “plan” here.

      Simply having some “good, young players” is not enough and should not be enough to mean you can go cheap on every decision. Not if the goal is winning, anyway.

      • Andrews theory

        Well of course Eugene has a plan, it’s just different on Tuesdays,Thursday and Saturdays.
        3.3 million to Hemsky as your best offer is an absolute joke!

      • FistsofNeil25

        Not only that, but you want to develop and bring along those good young players properly and put them in a position to succeed.

        It’s rarely a good strategy to put so many young players in key roles before they are ready. I know there’s still a full offseason ahead of us, but as of right now we have a whole bunch of young developing players that will be given a lot of responsibility next year. Turris, Zibanejad, Stone, Hoffman, Cowen, Ceci and possibly Lazar. Some people even want to trade Andy and make Lehner the undisputed starter even though he has shown nothing to prove that he’s ready.

        • jimmyjohnson

          While I agree on Lehner (sort of), the other young guys have proven that they are clearly ready.

          Turris and Zibanejad even had the lockout year to struggle and this year to play more sheltered behind Spezza. They’ll be fine.

          Cowen will be healthy to start the year and has a lot to prove. He’ll be fine.

          Stone and Hoffman play behind Ryan and McArthur, and both proved last year to be close to top-6 ready. They don’t really fit your point.

          Ceci is the only one of 8 D contracts that can play in the AHL. He either proves he’s ready or he can sit and watch (like Wiercioch this year) or head to the AHL.

          Lazar will be in a battle just to make the roster. He doesn’t fit either.

      • Doc

        Well, it’s all about Cost-Per-Point you know!!

      • jimmyjohnson

        I’m going to say this as many times as it takes to sink in for people:
        This years FAs
        When Hoffman re-signs, he will have a cap hit over $1.5M (and will probably have to be re-signed again within 2 years)
        When Lehner re-signs, he will have a cap hit over $2.5M
        When Gryba re-signs, he will have a cap hit over $2M
        If Da Costa re-signs, he will have a cap hit over $1.2M (not a big deal, but to be thorough…)

        Next Year’s FAs
        If Ryan re-signs (rumored to be agreed upon), he will cap at over $6M.
        If MacArthur re-signs, he will cap at over $4.5M
        When Zibanejad re-signs, he will cap at over $3.5M.
        When Stone re-signs, he will cap at over $2.5M (based on current experience and production).
        When Pageau re-signs, he will cap at over $2M
        If Methot is re-signed, his cap hit will be over $3.2M

        Then, later FA’s
        When Ceci re-signs, he will cap at over $3M (likely, based on the market for young D)
        When Wiercioch re-signs, he will cap at over $3M
        When Lazar re-signs, he will (probably) at over $2.5M

        Add in just Karlsson, Turris, and Cowen (total $13M) and that’s $50M minimum to just 16 players for the 2016-17 season.

        Those are conservative estimates!

        The bare minimum for this team by that year, if we retain all of the excellent young talent that we’ve amassed over the last 5-6 years, will cost us well over $50M.

        It’s pretty obvious that Murray is using this rebuild to turn this into his team. Once Phillips retires and Neil moves on, the team will be 100% Murray acquired assets (I’m assuming Condra and Greening aren’t likely long term solutions).

        This is not a bad thing. You mugs need to start thinking more realitically about this.

        • SensChirp

          Say it all you want, you’re completely missing the point.

          They are creating an environment that players want nothing to do with. Ryan/MacArthur/Methot won’t stay to play for a Canadian team with a strict internal budget and no interest in building a winner. Just not gonna happen.

    • jimmyjohnson

      I don’t have rose coloured glasses.

      I have realistic-tint optical lenses.

    • Sandy

      You said it all right there.
      I’m getting pretty sick and tired of Melnyk.
      This team decided to save money and do a 3 yr rebuild. Well that should be done by now. Guess what, this owner is still trying to cheap us out and resulted in two of the Sens best players skipping town to go somewhere else to win.
      I wish as a Sens STH I could demand Melnyk sell the team. We will never get to anywhere near a Stanley Cup final again, as long as he owns the team. He will never spend to make it competitive enough to get wins in the playoffs going forward.
      Every team in the East will be getting better by spending to bring in players. While the Sens get cheaper by letting good players leave.

      Who’s next?

      • KJ

        If Melnyk sells the team, get ready for the Seattle Senators. In other words, only way he sells is he goes completely bankrupt, or is forced to leave a lal Donald Sterling in the NBA. Very unlikely to happen

  • karlssens

    Wow. Just wow. That was merely an offer just to say they made an offer. A weak attemp to show that they are committed to winning. Disgusted with ownership right now.

    • FistsofNeil25

      I’m more disgusted in Murray. He’s been around a long time. If he knew he couldn’t offer Hemsky a competitive offer then don’t offer anything at all. All he did was embarrass us lol

      • karlssens

        Murray is just a puppet. Who do you think made him make that offer. It was a PR move, they knew he’d reject it.

    • Hax

      Meh. They knew Hemsky was going to test free agency no matter what so they made an offer (and made it public) so that any other offers they make (Ryan, UFAs, RFAs) will look better by comparison.

      Smart business move even if only a very minor one.

  • Andrews theory

    so glad we waived Conacher and traded two picks for a guy we had no intention of resigning.
    wtf.

    • Doc

      It was a good trade regardless if Hemsky stays or not.

      At the very least it increased Spezza’s value.

      • Aaron 2.0

        Hahaha. That’s actually a good point! Still, I doubt that management was thinking that when they traded for him. An offer about 1 million over the league average for a player they immediately put on their first line. I’m embarrassed to be a sens fan right now. I won’t be bringing up hockey talk at work today (haha).

        • Doc

          Welcome! Complimentary beverages are at the right.

      • Andrews theory

        i can swallow the picks, i think we cut bait on conacher far too early.

        • Doc

          That I agree on.

      • peetypuck

        I have to agree. Can you imagine what other GM’s would think about Spezza if he didn’t have such a good finish to the season? We’d be lucky to get a late 1st round 2014 pick for him.

    • jimmyjohnson

      Conacher obviously wasn’t in the long term plans. It looks pretty plausible that Conacher was a Tim Murray pick-up. Beyond that, we have way too many small young players. It’s very possible that Murray chose the Pageau over Conacher for the fiesty small guy role, and Hoffman over Conacher for the fast, skilled small guy role.

      Don’t be so upset. We have a good team developing.

      • Andrews theory

        I dont have an issue with the good young players developing what i do have an issue with is poor asset management and this constant dog and pony show that treats fans like idiots.

        We had an opportunity to do a full scale rebuild, Eugene couldn’t stomach the losses at the gate that would have followed so he kept the team semi competitive.

        I have an significant issue with extended mediocrity.

  • karlssens

    Rarely ever does a team low ball term, AND salary. But our Ottawa Senators made it happen! Hurray for mediocracy!

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      I’m shocked that they didn’t have a “bonus” that salary was only paid out if Hemsky found a way to actually play 92 games

      • jimmyjohnson

        2nd round or bust

  • Hax

    Not sure I get the outrage over that offer. Yes it’s low-ball and there was no way Hemsky was going to accept it but why does anyone assume Murray expected anything different?

    I do understand fans frustrated over the “budget” etc and if this offer to Hemsky touches that nerve then okay, but c’mon folks. We brought Hemsky in to see if we wanted to keep him and if he wanted to stay. We decided we didn’t like him enough to pay him what he wants so he’s going. Not complicated.

    • runningbear1974

      Yeah, in my opinion, that’s about his value to us… 3 million a year… Now we walk away…

    • FistsofNeil25

      “We brought Hemsky in to see if we wanted to keep him and if he wanted to stay. We decided we didn’t like him enough to pay him what he wants so he’s going.”
      He had 17 points in 20 games as a Senator. What more could he have done to make the team like him enough to offer him a competitive deal?

      I think the they more than likely never expected him to play as well as he did. The way he played in Ottawa likely increased his value as a UFA. I don’t think the team ever intended to pay him anywhere close what he’s going to get as a UFA now. They probably expected him to come in here and produce at the same rate he had been in Edmonton, making a 3.5M-4M per season offer more realistic.

      • Hax

        Fair point. I’m not saying they didn’t like what they saw, but given his injury history and the other players we want to build around, I don’t think they want to give Hemsky as much as he’ll get as a UFA (as you point out).

    • Aaron 2.0

      I think this offer, on it’s own, would cause little to no outrage. We would conclude that management simply decided there was too much risk with this player for the money he will command in UFA. I think what’s feuling the outrage is the pattern of decisions being made. We all know there is a budget. But, things are feeling like they are spiraling out of control right now (maybe that’s just the public perception, and it’s not as bad as it feels right now).

      • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

        Nailed it

      • runningbear1974

        Exactly…It’s not the reality of the situation, it’s the perception of that reality… The people who are complaining today about the budget, were complaining about it yesterday, and will complain tomorrow too… It will be a long summer of budget complaints…

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          Until very recently I was still a melnyk supporter and even argued that the budget was to ensure we could afford to keep all our guys coming up for new contracts….. Unfortunately more and more things come out demonstrating that there is more to it than that

          • jimmyjohnson

            I don’t see how that’s true.

        • Hax

          True and I’d add that people have every right to be upset about the perception when so few people actually know the true story. Some are better at others at sort of letting go and not getting riled up about assumptions and rumors but as a fan it’s hard not to sometimes.

          I think a Ryan extension and good return on the Spezza trade will help a lot.

          Put it this way, if there is a plan and if Murray believes in it (i.e. he’s not just minding Melnyk’s store knowing he can’t build a winner) then I’d rather he stay the course than go off-plan just to appease worried fans.

          • Aaron 2.0

            I want to believe there is a plan. But, hard-ball with Alfie (who would only be here for a 1-2 years longer, so doesn’t upset any long-term planning). Then, subsequent over-payment for Phillips, an ageing vet (a bottom pairing guy now). That has PR all over it. Then we see what it took to trade for Hemsky (salary retained by EDM and dumping Conacher). Then we low-ball him. About 1 million more than given to Phillips (for 1 year more). In defense of the fans, it’s hard to see a plan right now, other than what we know the owner has publicly said, cost-per-point.

          • jimmyjohnson

            a) We didn’t hardball Alfie.
            Alfie hardballed us.

            b) Phillips isn’t overpaid.
            That contract is less than relevant to the team’s long term financial picture.

            c) Comparing their offer to Hemsky with what Phillips got is inane.

            d) Take the emotion out of it, have a little faith, and the plan is pretty blatantly obvious.

          • runningbear1974

            I agree… I wish i knew the plan… It feels like it’s taken a couple of weird directions lately… Can we not get some media persons to ask the right questions?
            I think the plan changed when Alfie left… The plan changed again when Spezza didn’t work with Ryan, or MacLean…
            We need someone to ask Murray the plan going forward, considering the weird moves lately, we want some sort of reassurance…

          • Hax

            Except Murray isn’t going to tell everyone the plan. It would hurt his ability to work with other GMs if they know exactly what he’s trying to do.

            He can certainly tell the fans some parts of it I guess but my feeling is he doesn’t care if fans get all sweaty-palmed.

          • runningbear1974

            I agree, not necessarily good for him to let everyone know the plan… I would like to know, so we can have different conversations than “Melnyk is cheap”…

          • Hax

            Oh totally yeah. I do think that Melnyk is slightly less moronic than he sounds in interviews. People run with some of his comments to “prove” that we’re always going to be a cap floor team but I find it hard to believe that Murray would sign an extension if that’s the case. All he’d be doing is tarnishing his personal record when he could have gotten a GM job elsewhere if he wanted (or just retired).

          • FistsofNeil25

            He only signed a two year contract so what difference does it make?

          • Hax

            Fair point. But I can’t think of any reason why a respected guy like himself would sign on for two years if he felt all he would be doing is tearing apart what he’d worked on. I guess it’s a paycheck and he’s close to home etc, but I assume he’s got some pride. If he feels that the team in 2 years is going to be complete crap then why stay and be part of that?

          • FistsofNeil25

            Well I doubt he thinks the team is going to complete crap. I don’t think anyone believes that.

            I think he decided to stick around for two more years because he still loves the game and he can pretty much still work and live close to home.

            He didn’t extend for two more years with the thought of contending this upcoming season or the next.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Look at the roster though. They are all Murray’s players, other than Spezza, Phillips, Neil, Condra, and Greening. Every other asset was brought in by Murray.

            Spezza is on the way out. Phillips is done within the next 2 years. Neil is pretty close to done. Condra is probable to walk as FA next year. Greening could easily be moved by the deadline, if his play doesn’t pick up.

            Very soon, it will be 100% Murray picks, signings, and trades that fill the roster. I think obviously he wanted to see it through.

          • Hax

            Not saying he needed to feel he could win a cup per se, just that he’s not going to stick around if he’s basically a puppet and being forced to sell off all our assets – the ones he put together. Basically, I assume he’d want to be able to look back on these two years when they are over and feel he accomplished something. Not look back and say “well, I went into the office every day”.

          • KJ

            why don’t you ask him?

          • jimmyjohnson

            Melnyk is a self-made billionaire.

            I’m pretty sure he’s a little bit more than “slightly moronic” (to paraphrase).

          • Sandy

            He is no longer a billionaire.
            Bad investments, costly divorce.

          • KJ

            Um, he is back over the 1 billion mark in 2014:
            $1,004,319,818 // published as at Jan 9, 2014.

            77th on the list of wealthiest people in Canada.
            http://www.canadianbusiness.com/lists-and-rankings/rich-100-the-full-2014-ranking/

          • Murray_is_a_GENIUS

            Well…he started out doing chemical journal research and so on then got into Biovail. But he was pushed out of Biovail, had to sell St. Mike’s Majors, had to sell his horses, had to sell Biovail. So while he’s not moronic or whatever, there are some issues here. Either he can’t manage money or he’s running out of money.
            TOOKS100%OUT!!!!!!!

          • Sandy

            One thing that Murray wanted most of all, was to win a Stanley Cup.
            He has 2 more years as GM, and it’s so sad to see that what he wanted most will not happen — in Ottawa.

          • KJ

            and he shouldn’t. he should be making his decisions on contracts based on his 30+ years of experience in the NHL, and not fans emotional displeasure.

          • FistsofNeil25

            The plan – try to squeak into the playoffs every year on a strict internal budget that will keep us as one of the bottom 5 spenders in the league.

            That’s their plan. Eugene has pretty much said that himself.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Imagine all the movie revenue he could make… I see it now the opening song is that God awful drake started from the bottom

          • runningbear1974

            I heard one guy say they had instructions to find “playoff type” players… If we do make the players, maybe we’ll have a chance…

          • Sandy

            What free agent in his right mind would want to come to Ottawa?

          • runningbear1974

            That’s a good question… Think about it without Melnyk… Let’s say we had a billionaire owner that spent to the cap…
            Now given this rich owner… What free agent in their right mind would want to play for Ottawa? Stop being delusional… We are not New York or LA, or any of the great destinations… We need to target more specific Free Agents… Character people… MacArthur… Family people… Pick and choose… We will never get all of the Free Agents… No Free Agent would ever choose here over New York…. Stop being delusional… You’ve been hating Melnyk for over a year… Your hate runs deeps…

          • jimmyjohnson

            I agree with you on a lot of topics, but I think you’re seeing it wrong right now. We don’t know that’s the long term plan. We know that’s the sales pitch they gave us to keep spending during the rebuild. Wait to see what they do over the next month and then 12 months. The next two drafts/FA periods will better define their plan. Until then, it’s all just speculation.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I agree with you, Hax, and Spezzerman (among others) for the most part, but I really don’t feel there are too many strange moves.

            Everything is relatively explainable and the base of assets we have remains largely unchanged. All the players I mentioned in my earlier post (those needing to be re-signed, plus the big 3 young signed assets) have the potential to form a formidable core. This year will give us a much better glimpse into their true likelihood of reaching their potential.

            Patience and, I guess faith, is what this fanbase needs now.

          • Sandy

            The only ‘plan’ is the Owner trying to spend as little on the team he can, so he can take profits out of the team to spend on his other failing businesses.

          • runningbear1974

            I heard he’s using all his senator money on prostitutes and crack…

      • spezzerman

        Totally agree. We need some big news ASAP July 5th.

        • jimmyjohnson

          Is FA always July 5th now? I thought that was just last year.

          • Hax

            It’s July 1st this year.

          • spezzerman

            oops, sorry. I thought that was permanent since July 1st is technically a holiday. Although, who doesnt like striking it rich on a holiday?

          • jimmyjohnson

            They talked about moving it permanently, I believe, but one (or both) of the sides were pretty adamant against it.

      • jimmyjohnson

        That’s interesting. It feels to me like they have the whole thing in complete control. If they had given Hemsky the contract he wanted, I’d be much more worried.

    • peetypuck

      It was a starting offer. If Hemsky had any plans to stay in Ottawa he would have came back with a counter offer for more than he expected to get. If he didn’t counter then he obviously had no interest in staying here.

      • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

        So Alfie had no interest in staying here?? He didn’t counter

        • jimmyjohnson

          So Hemsky is Alfie now?

      • sbs138

        which is exactly what he said would happen if he wasn’t going to play with Spezza. no surprise.

    • spezzerman

      when I guys tells you he will only play with a particular center, they shouldnt be throwing money at him.

    • TookieIs100PercentRight

      Why make the offer then Hax? Just do what they did with the 3rd line plug (forget his name) and say “We’re both moving in different directions.” There’s no need to offer the guy 2 mil less than his last salary, it just makes you look super bushleague.
      TOOKS100%OUT!!!!!!

      • runningbear1974

        3 million is his value to us… That’s what we should try and get him for… Doesn’t matter what other people think, because lots of people have crazy thoughts…

  • jimmyjohnson

    I posted this below as a reply, but obviously it bears repeating, given that almost every poster seems upset:

    I’m going to say this as many times as it takes to sink in for people:
    This years FAs
    When Hoffman re-signs, he will have a cap hit over $1.5M (and will probably have to be re-signed again within 2 years)
    When Lehner re-signs, he will have a cap hit over $2.5M
    When Gryba re-signs, he will have a cap hit over $2M
    If Da Costa re-signs, he will have a cap hit over $1.2M (not a big deal, but to be thorough…)

    Next Year’s FAs
    If Ryan re-signs (rumored to be agreed upon), he will cap at over $6M.
    If MacArthur re-signs, he will cap at over $4.5M
    When Zibanejad re-signs, he will cap at over $3.5M.
    When Stone re-signs, he will cap at over $2.5M (based on current experience and production).
    When Pageau re-signs, he will cap at over $2M
    If Methot is re-signed, his cap hit will be over $3.2M

    Then, later FA’s
    When Ceci re-signs, he will cap at over $3M (likely, based on the market for young D)
    When Wiercioch re-signs, he will cap at over $3M
    When Lazar re-signs, he will (probably) at over $2.5M

    Add in just Karlsson, Turris, and Cowen (total $13M) and that’s $50M minimum to just 16 players for the 2016-17 season.

    Those are conservative estimates!

    The bare minimum for this team by that year, if we retain all of the excellent young talent that we’ve amassed over the last 5-6 years, will cost us well over $50M.

    It’s pretty obvious that Murray is using this rebuild to turn this into his team. Once Phillips retires and Neil moves on, the team will be 100% Murray acquired assets (I’m assuming Condra and Greening aren’t likely long term solutions).

    • bluebuyyoo

      You forgot to repeat the end part where you called everyone else “mugs”.

      • jimmyjohnson

        IF you are overreacting constantly (like so many do) to this type of news and constantly assuming you know the future (i.e. “we’ll never spend again” mentality) or even the present financial situation of the team, then yeah, I call you mugs.

        • FistsofNeil25

          What makes you think Melnyk will ever spend again? Seriously man I don’t get where people get this idea from. All he’s said is that only idiots increase payroll and that he’s spent to the cap before and it doesn’t work.

          Yes he’s spent to the cap before, but that was when it was 48M, 53M, 58M. Do you think he’s really going to spend 70M+ on payroll for this hockey team? There’s speculation that the cap may increase to 76M for the 2015-2016 season.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I don’t assume he won’t, is the main point behind the theory. Until he proves he doesn’t want to spend ever, I’m going to assume that they’ll do what’s best for the long term of the franchise, and that means spending when it makes sense. It doesn’t make sense to spend now.

    • Aaron 2.0

      With respect, I don’t really get the argument. All of our young players won’t need contracts all at once. The league will continue to grow, and consequently the cap (and floor) will continue to go up over time.

      No one is saying offer Hemsky 10 million for 10 years (or something ridiculous in terms of money or term). The offer works out to about 1 million over the average salary in the NHL (which includes rookies, and bottom 6 players). So, it’s not even in the ball-park for this calibre of player.

      Finally, we’re not the only team with young players who will need a raise. I love our young guys, but none of them are even legitimate blue-chip prospects. Other teams in the league have young talent too. They still find a way to make it work.

      • jimmyjohnson

        Actually, they pretty much all will need contracts at once. 2 years is a very short window for so many contract renewals on so many ELC’s and 2nd contracts.

        All the numbers I provided assume no dramatic increase in production for any of those players (which aligns with your “no bluechips” comment). If even one or two of them winds up being more expensive, our cap picture changes pretty drastically.

        Also, and more importantly, the cap isn’t going to just keep going up. It will for a couple of seasons, but it’s very likely that it stops around $80 million, with a floor of (whatever that would be…$58M?).

        The org has stated: When the time is right, they will consider bringing in a high priced asset from outside. The time for that (and the asset itself) is clearly not now (and clearly not Hemsky).

        • FistsofNeil25

          “The org has stated: When the time is right, they will consider bringing in a high priced asset from outside. The time for that (and the asset itself) is clearly not now (and clearly not Hemsky).”
          When the hell did they ever say that? Source?

          • Doc

            PR bullshit to appease the fans anyways.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Seems like it works!

          • jimmyjohnson

            How could it possibly seem that way? Only like 25% of the fanbase didn’t overreact to this irrelevant news today.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Straight from one or both of Melnyk and Murray.

            I’m not going to look it up, but I wouldn’t bother lying to you. They basically said “if, when we’re ready to compete, there’s the opportunity to bring in a more expensive asset, that’s definitely something we’ll look at doing”.

            Cryptic, I know, but I have to believe that both of them want to win very badly and that they will absolutely bring in a Parise, Suter, Hossa, etc (to use recent high price, high value FAs) when the time is right.

          • FistsofNeil25

            That was all before the salary cap hit 70M.

          • jimmyjohnson

            No, that was this year.

  • Pasky

    Man at this rate I don’t think Melnyk will have any Sens fans left to piss off if next year’s off-season is just like this one. I’m not gonna panic though until I show up to this site and see this at the top page lol

    • 57gord

      But you didn’t need the second H in hirp just the irp. LOL

  • adamie

    To Vancouver Canucks
    Jason Spezza
    Patrick Wiercioch
    2nd pick OTT

    To Ottawa Senators
    Alexander Edler
    Shawn Matthias
    1st pick VAN

    • FistsofNeil25

      I’d do it.

      • adamie

        MacArthur – Turris – Ryan
        Hoffman – Zibanejad – Stone
        Michalek – Smith – UFA
        Greening – Matthias – Condra / Neil

        Edler – Karlsson
        Methot – Ceci
        BoroCop/Philips – Gryba

        what do you think FistsofNeil25?

        • FistsofNeil25

          oyyy I liked the trade idea but I’m not loving that forward group.

        • sbs138

          Hoffman’s not a 2nd liner.

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      One of the better proposals I’ve seen and works for both sides

      You’re hired

    • jimmyjohnson

      eww

      • Doc

        Care to elaborate?

        • jimmyjohnson

          Edler = overrated by many. I like him well enough, but I’m not totally convinced that Wiercioch won’t soon be on that level of productivity and performance.

          For me, it’s almost Wiercioch > Edler, even though I can very easily see the argument that it’s Edler >>> Wiercioch. I just don’t forecast it that way. We’ll see.
          ———
          Matthias is a pretty marginal top-9 forward and hardly a replacement for Spezza. That pick is nice and has definite value to the Sens, but I just don’t like the overall package and I think we’ll get something acceptable elsewhere, without giving up as much.

          The Wiercioch add (this offseason especially) is a big problem for me though. We don’t know what this guy will become. Most signs point to him being an excellent 2 way puck mover though. I don’t want to shuttle him off for some marginal immediate upgrade.

    • Zelle

      I’m going to be extremely upset if the Senators get Edler…

  • runningbear1974

    Why do people want Hemsky? I disagree with you people… I’m more disappointed we offered him a contract… He’s not a playoff type… What we saw was the best we would ever see out of him… He won’t help us win against Boston, Pittsburgh, Chicago, LA…
    He’s not a great player… He’s a not a good type of player… Why are you complaining about this?

    • Hax

      I maintain that the “offer” was more to introduce a comparable in other negotiations. Murray knew Hemsky wouldn’t accept it. But now when he makes offers to other players he can say “well it’s more than we offered Hemsky”.

      • runningbear1974

        Nice, good point… 20 goals a year is worth about 3 million a year…

        • jimmyjohnson

          I think it’s worth $4-4.5 in the new cap world.

          I wouldn’t pay him that though

        • spezzerman

          not anymore its not…

        • Doc

          Maybe in Melnyk’s world it is.

    • sbs138

      we have to make the playoffs first. also, Hemsky hasn’t played in the playoffs in a long time, and you could argue that Gaborik was not a playoff type player either, until this year.

      • runningbear1974

        Gaborik had the benefit of a really solid core of players on LA… Gaborik does not make a solid core, but he adds to the team… We are still building a core… And we shouldn’t handcuff ourselves with the extras, that aren’t critical to the team…
        I don’t think Hemsky is playoff material because 1) he’s smallish, 2) not particularly gritty, 3) doesn’t like to shoot, always looking to pass…

      • runningbear1974

        Also, Hemsky is no where close to Gaborik… Gaborik used to score 40 goals a year, Hemsky scored 20… No where comparable value…

  • spezzerman

    I really dont give a shit about Hemsky. He hasnt earned a raise over his last contract at 5 per year. More worried about the message it sends to guys like Ryan. All I can hope for is whether there is a method to their madness.

    If Ryan and Macarthur resign it tells me all I need to know about how the players feel the Sens future will be. Of course, I am skeptical. These guys need to have an announcement ready for both players first thing the morning of July 5th.

    • runningbear1974

      I feel it sends a good message… Ottawa is not an organization that feels they need to overpay people to get them to play here… The way obviously Edmonton feels…
      And yes, it’s about Ryan… I’m waiting with my final judgement to see what happens with Ryan… If we re-sign him GREAT, if we don’t, i’m OUT… Simple as that for me… Hemsky is insignificant, he’s not worth fighting for…

      • jimmyjohnson

        I’m not necessarily “out” if we don’t re-sign him, but I agree mostly with the sentiment here.

      • FistsofNeil25

        “Ottawa is not an organization that feels they need to overpay people to get them to play here…”

        What you fail to realize is that we are an organization who has to over-pay to get people to come here. We overpaid Kovalev, we overpaid Gonchar, we would have had to overpay Hemsky which is clear now, and we will likely have to overpay Ryan to keep him.

        • peetypuck

          Bobby is reliable and can play through some pain as he did this year. Hemsky would have been on the injured list at the first hint of pain. Hemsky has never scored as many goals as Ryan did this year while playing injured. I’ll pay Ryan the money any day. Forget Hemsky.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Buddy I don’t give a shit about Hemsky but you are so unbelievably wrong with this comment. Yes Hemsky is injury prone, but when he left Edmonton his former teammates/coaches/management raved about his character and how often he played through pain and injuries.

          • peetypuck

            Is that why they traded him for two very low draft picks? It’s very admirable that he played through the pain of a broken finger nail but there wasn’t another GM in the league that would touch him.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Listen I already told ya I don’t care about Hemsky, just don’t make comments about him going on the IR at the first sign of pain. When his say he often played through pain and injuries then I believe them.

            It’s not his fault that he’s so fragile lol I don’t question his toughness, I question his durability. I’m sure that’s the reason why other GM’s weren’t willing to take the risk on him

          • jimmyjohnson

            What you should do, FistsofNeil25, is take the time to look up the Oilers record since the lockout with Hemsky, and without. I don’t know where to find it so I’m not going to, but again I have no reason to lie to you. Basically, they were a markedly worse team (both overall and isolated on individual seasons) with Hemsky in the lineup. Dramatically so… Like to the point of wondering why how they didn’t notice the trend.

            I’m not saying it’s important and I understand that you don’t care about whether Hemsky signs or not, but it’s a worthwhile point to consider. The Sens org realizes his true value is drastically less than what he’s asking for.

          • FistsofNeil25

            lol if you don’t know where to find it then how am I supposed to know? That takes a lot of work. What I do know is that Edmonton has been a shitty team since the 2005/2006 season with and without Hemsky in the line-up so it doesn’t make a big of difference to me.

            Like I said, Hemsky doesn’t make a difference to me. Sens fans just need some good news and the organization needs some good publicity right now. There have been way too many negatives since Alfie left.

            It shouldn’t come as a surprise to you or anyone else that anything like this, whether relevant or not, will likely be blown out of proportion but a lot of people, especially those in the blogging community.

            The doom and gloom will die down when and if we get a good return for Spezza and reasonable contracts are worked out for the likes of Ryan and Methot.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I don’t think you quite understand lol.

            it was, like, a winning percentage of .35 with Hemsky and .5 without!

            Do you realize how dramatic that is? That’s NUTS!!

          • FistsofNeil25

            Those are numbers I would need to see to believe my friend.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Like I said, no reason to lie about it. It was over a year ago, so I’m definitely not going to try to find it, but it was corroborated.

          • FistsofNeil25

            I’m not saying you are lying, but you could be mistaken lol

        • runningbear1974

          Most organizations have to overpay to get UFAs… That’s why they get paid so much…
          Just because we overpaid in the past in no reason to overpay Hemsky… If we wanted to, we could overpay for him, but it’s a bad move…

    • Andrews theory

      That will certainly go a long way towards devleoping some credibility.
      I have a feeling they will attempt to low ball MacArthur though based on what he accomplished before Ottawa.

      He’s a very valuable peice moving forward and should be a poster child for what we want out of our youth.

      • runningbear1974

        I don’t think we should overpay McArthur either… He’s a great player for us… But, we also saved him… Gave him a great opportunity… There is no other situation he would do as well… It would be bad to sign him at 5 million a year… How much is 24 goals worth? Somewhere close to 3 milion in my opinion… If you do extra for the team than add a bit more money… Don’t overpay…

        • Dirk-Diggler

          I agree. I like MacArthur but not more that $4.5 for me. I’d offer him a 4 year $16M deal first with a NTC for the first two years. He will not be a 30 goal scorer and is a 2nd/3rd line player on a contender. Don’t overpay for him, but also don’t try and screw him.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Yeah I’m thinking along the same lines. 4 X 4 seems reasonable. 4.5M per would be the max I’d go. I don’t really want us to extend him this summer to be honest. I want to see how he’ll play this year.

          • spezzerman

            normally I agree, but we need some good news here. I think Mac is a fairly safe bet though. He has previously put up 20+G 60pt seasons twice in toronto. Plays hard in non contract years.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Yeah that’s fair. I like they way he plays an what he brings to the team. My only concern with MacArthur is whether or not he can produce consistently.

            I really do like what he brings to this team and him and Turris together are magic.

          • peetypuck

            I think he likes it here. He gets to be a big fish on the Sens.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Until we low ball his ass in contract negotiations.
            “Okay Clarkie, we love ya here – 5 years @ 3M per. Take it or leave it!”

          • CaMo

            I’d go for a front loaded contract with Clarky. Something like 4.5 for the first and second year, then 3Mil then 2.5 in the fourth year. Total of 14.5 over 4 years is suitable I think. And the early money would make anyone happy.

          • peetypuck

            MacA will want to be paid the going rate for players of comparable value. He’s a top-6 player and should be paid that much. As far as Hemsky is concerned, let him spend half the season on the IR on some other team that he suckers.

      • spezzerman

        Completely agree. (not about the attempt to low ball although I get why that thought is there) And after getting screwed by the Leafs he isnt about to do anyone any favours contract wise. If he signs, its a great sign for sens fans. To keep Hemsky from going to market in a few weeks it would have taken at least 5.5M over 3 years which I sure wouldnt do. I’m not going to use that to jump off the deep end. I just sure as hell hope whatever they will tell Ryan and Mac makes them want to sign on long term

      • jimmyjohnson

        Why would they lowball him? They will try to get him at a reasonable price, but I doubt they lowball him.

      • Andrews theory

        ya I’m not saying he deserves 5 million but I’d be willing to bet the Sens want him to come in closer to 3 million which is a low ball valuation.

        I think something around 4 is realistic.

        To assume he wouldn’t do as well anywhere else is ridiculous. He was undervalued in Toronto and they were idiots for letting him walk. We got him for a steal.

  • Dirtysweetness

    Just keep your fingers crossed that Euge keeps on liquidating his assets-including this team.

    • jimmyjohnson

      The guy saved the team from bankruptcy and committed to spending to the cap for over 5 seasons. Why are people so easily turned against him?

      • FBP

        You haven’t been following along for the last couple of years?

      • Doc

        You know we’re in 2014 now, right?

      • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

        Did you just wake up from a coma? Honest question

        • runningbear1974

          There should checkboxes beside people’s avatars… Spezza lover, check… Melnyk hater, check… MacLean hater, check…

          • CaMo

            Seriously if you like Melnyk, you might as well ‘check’ GTFO.

          • jimmyjohnson

            It’s not about “like”, as much as it is about “not hate”

            Random hate based on speculation and innuendo is embarrassing.

          • Doc

            Blind faith is even more embarrassing.

            DO. SOME. FUCKING. RESEARCH.

          • jimmyjohnson

            You should probably appreciate the fact that this is a family friendly blog and impressionable young kids will read your delivery and think that’s somehow the way reasonable people talk. Kind of like you did when you were that age, which has so clearly marred your ability to converse in a civilized manner.

            Anyways, I’ve read every piece of bs on the subject. Nothing sways me in favour of believing a bunch of loud voices. You think you’re the majority because you speak so willingly, openly, and vocally (and obtrusively), but that doesn’t mean everyone agrees with your take.

            Most just don’t bother arguing with you because…well, look at how you talk to people…what’s the point.

          • Doc

            You clearly didn’t, or else you’d have a different opinion. You’re the type to follow the herd and not question anything that is out of the norm.

            Don’t call out people for things you’re doing yourself. Makes you a hypocrite on top of being a moron.

            I couldn’t give a shit what you think anyways. You’re a sad excuse of a so called ‘fan’.

            Say hi to Melnyk for me.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I’d love to. He seems like an affable chap.

            I don’t see how being so heavily contrarian to everything stated by one group of fans can be seen as following the herd. You’re the herd…you just don’t realize it.

          • Doc

            That would be great if it was true, honestly. But sadly, that is not the case.

            Too many people are still believing the non-sense that’s being spewed by management. Add an owner who publicly treats his fanbase like idiots, and you have a recipe for the pathetic situation we are in.

          • runningbear1974

            No, you are the herd… You are the popular vote… You are the one who is just following what the bloggers are saying, without questioning… All of the popular posters are talking bad about Melnyk… So, you are the follower….

          • Doc

            How is informing yourself following? I too the time to do my own research instead of questioning everyone who did.

            You’re exactly what’s wrong with this fan base. Heck, this applies to the general public in regards to politics.

          • runningbear1974

            You say the same points over and over again…
            “Do research”
            “You’re an idiot”
            You’re are not sharing any insights or interesting points of view… Aggressive and dismissive you are …

          • Doc

            Because I won’t do the work for you. Seriously, it’s ALL THERE.

            Take 5 minutes out of your time, and instead of refreshing every hockey blog for Sens related news, go to Google and get the information you are requesting.

            Being misinformed is one thing, but being so voluntarily is just sad.

          • runningbear1974

            You say this all the time about every of your opinions…You’re opinions are based on facts that you’ve researched (whereas other people are idiots)…
            If you don’t feel like sharing facts, why do you feel like calling people idiots….
            I do read a lot… I’m not sure what facts you’re talking about but i read lots of different stuff…
            We rarely ever talk about facts… It’s more about opinions about those facts that are discussed… For example… Spezza… What are the facts about him? And therefore, what are the appropriate conclusions?

          • bluebuyyoo

            Beezzuz! Doc is sharing facts. If you want them corroborated or explained, go look for yourself. Why is it so difficult to understand?

          • runningbear1974

            There is zero facts in the statements he’s making… He’s dismissing other points of views… Calling people idiots… And sharing his famous advice “DO YOUR FUCKING RESEARCH, MORON”…
            that’s what he has to say… zero facts….

          • Doc

            Side note:

            I only insulted one person today, and it was warranted. I stand by my comments and my opinion.

            Don’t dish out what you can’t take. Simple as that.

            “Stupidity is a talent for misconception.”

          • bluebuyyoo

            QED

            Goodnight Gracie.

          • Doc

            Ok, I’ll bite.

            The reason I don’t go into details, is because many bloggers/journalists have already said everything that needed to be said, often in a better way that I could’ve. I tend to shy away from this subject for two reasons:

            1- It’s been discussed Ad Nauseum. The information is easily accessible to anyone who wants to form an opinion on the subject.
            2- As you may have seen today, I get pretty riled up when people disregard the subject so easily, when it affects us all as a fan base. We’ve already been through a lot, and we deserve a hell of a lot better then what is currently happening with our team.

            I tend not to insult any posters, but when a person’s comments directly insult my intelligence and the one of my fellow fans, then you can bet I will call you out on it. What makes people idiots is when they make misinformed opinions publicly, and spread the non-sense to other people that don’t know better.

          • jimmyjohnson

            And you know for a fact that you’re correctly informed.

            Right…

          • Doc

            I am, which is why I’m informed.

            See how that works?

          • sbs138

            he could argue that that is exactly what you are doing.

          • Doc

            See comments bellow.

          • CaMo

            Holy shit, now you really sound like an English teacher. Stop worrying about kids that aren’t yours and the majority DOES hate Melnyk. If Chirp added a pole to his post asking if Sens fans liked Melnyk ‘Yes’ ‘No’ Or ‘Indifferent’ I would bet that there’s a hell of alot more No’s than Yes and indifferent votes combined.

          • runningbear1974

            Exactly… The herd forms the majority…

          • bluebuyyoo

            Must resist. Can’t post it… Sorry CaMo

          • CaMo

            lol no, I wanna know.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            That’s hardly true.. Until very recently I was a fairly large supporter of Melnyk… There has just been far too many horrible decisions and moves to continue to defend him.

            (although I do like your idea for many posters)

          • runningbear1974

            I don’t see all the horrible moves that were made…
            1) Not re-signing Gonchar was a money decision that hurt (but there were plans to give the young guys more ice-time)
            Otherwise, i don’t see the horrible money decisions that were made…

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Look past strictly money and look into decisions that gad to have been influenced from above

        • peetypuck

          Did you get a new prescription of “ugly” pills last week?

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Computer class for grade 7s apparently

          • peetypuck

            I suggest that you join up promptly.

      • runningbear1974

        I agree with you… “what have you done for me lately” attitude… the “entitled” attitude… The fans made fun of him with his investigation… The fans just hate him … I guess the fans are hoping he’s going to buy their loyalty…
        I much prefer the upcoming players than the ‘entitled’ ones… I enjoy watching those games… I enjoy going to those games…
        Why not enjoy the young guys now while they are developing?
        Why do the fans prefer mediocre players (like Hemsky) rather than watching a young upcoming guy?

        • Doc

          Fuck me. Tired of this bullshit.

          Seriously, open your eyes for fuck sake. This is getting tiresome. Do some research, it’s all there. You know, FACTS?

          Plus, yes, we are “entitled” as fans. The whole sport is based around fans support. We deserve better as a fan base. PERIOD.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I hesitate to ask this, but:

            What facts? Elaborate please. No need to be snippy, either…I’m just curious what “facts” you base your opinion on.

          • Doc

            Says the guy coming out of a coma.

            It’s been discussed EXTENSIVELY for over a year. Do some research, google is your friend.

            Fucking tired of this non-sense.

          • jimmyjohnson

            wow.

            k.

            I’ve been around for all the fan speculation and hate. I just don’t think anyone has a leg to stand on.

            You actually believe Yost and his croneys? They are sensationalist. I refuse to allow his testimony as gospel.

          • Doc

            Then you’re more of an idiot than I thought.

            It’s not one person, it’s a large group of bloggers, journalists and fans that took the time to dig deeper and found out this information.

            You clearly choose to disregard it, and that’s your choice. Doesn’t change anything.

            Enjoy your mediocrity.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Oh, so taking the time to inquire about someone’s personal finances (or simply believing rumour and innuendo) would elevate me above mediocrity? So glad you could tell me. Thank you.. Thank you..

            You sound like a winner. Good for you champ.

          • Doc

            Now you have a reading comprehension it seems.

            Mediocrity as in the on-ice product.

            And you’re welcome. You seem to need all the help you could get.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Yep, I’m sure any outsiders in this conversation agree that I’m just helpless.

            That on ice mediocrity is a challenge for any upcoming team. I’ll enjoy watching them build and progress. Yes, I will.

          • Doc

            Good for you, kiddo.

            At least you know what you want.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Yeah, I’m the kid.

            You really come off as an adult in this conversation.

            /sarcasm.

          • Doc

            I thought you /discussion?

            My dad’s stronger than your dad.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Also, If these players we have progress and develop into a contending team for a decade or more, is that not good enough?

            Time for patience.

          • Doc

            So, pure speculation based on nothing? Make sense.

            Time to wake up.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Not every billionaire has a fairy tale ride through prominence. Melnyk has shown a considerable commitment to this team and this community. You should show some respect.

            And I say this from 100% the outside. I have zero connection to him or the franchise, but I’m equally tired as you, only instead, I’m tired of all the vitriol from the fans who quite literally have no facts to support their opinion that we will always be hamstrung financially.

          • Doc

            Man, I’m starting to think you’re a PR guy working for the team trying to do damage control. The fact that you have to specify that you are ‘from the outside’ only strengthen that idea. In any case, you’re doing a shit poor job at it.

            Respect is earned. And he lost all of it in the last few years. Don’t insult my intelligence because you’re too fucking lazy to do your own research. “Fans” like you are what’s hurting this team.

            Tired of idiots trying to justify his actions like it’s the fans fault for the situation we are in. Pathetic.

          • jimmyjohnson

            You’re a joke.

          • Doc

            Ha, only proves my point.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I think your point is that you think you know better than others because you’re more readily willing to condemn without all the facts.

            That makes you a joke and an embarrassment.

            I pointed out the fact that I wasn’t a pr guy because I’ve so often been defending their side over yours that some might misconstrue my intentions and start believing as much. Pretty simple explanation, but a little over the head of prejudgemental morons.

          • Doc

            Readily willing to condemn without all the facts? You asked me ‘what facts’ earlier, yet now you know more than you lead to believe? That’s strange…

            You can’t be this dense. I actually took the time to research the information and get said facts. And that, my little friend, makes me informed. I told people that a lot of things will surface in the coming months, and now we are slowly seeing them come to light. We haven’t heard all of it yet either.

            Melnyk selling his junior team, large stakes in some of his companies, his horse racing stables. Everything is peachy right?

            You, on the other hand, prefer to turn a blind eye and not ask questions. That makes you ignorant on top of being naive.

          • jimmyjohnson

            So you’ve been inquiring with his banks? You got a copy of his credit report? You have the team’s financial statements?

            He sells his assets to consolidate his debt. It’s pretty standard practice. I doubt you know anywhere near as much as you think you do.

            Whatever though. I don’t care. Think what you want.

          • Doc

            Of course you don’t. Ignorance is bliss.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Let me be more specific:

            Unless you have his bank statements, credit report, and the team’s financial reports, I really REALLY don’t care about your purported claim that you have done more research and therefore have greater insight and clarity than I.

            /discussion.

          • Doc

            You do know that insider stakes in publicly traded companies is public information right?

            Same goes for Team’s financial reports. Bank statements I could care less about because the rest of his actions (and words) speak for themselves. But you would know that if you took the time to do some research (see a pattern here?).

            As for your last statement, well that’s good, because your opinion has little value anyways.

            Enjoy your fantasy land. Kisses.

          • jimmyjohnson

            None of our opinions have value in this context. It’s just that I’m the only one who understands what this context is.

          • Doc

            So much for ending this discussion, huh?

            I would question your understanding of not only this context, but the circumstances as a whole.

          • Zelle

            I did a bunch of research online but I could find next to nothing about this guy, especially financially. I do believe he does all (or most) of his financial dealings in Barbados and so not much is publicly available. In fact when divorcing his wife he got the government/law handlers of Barbados to intercept on his behalf so that everything was confidential. No official newspaper or journalists do any investigations on the rich in Barbados and the only free organization that did got a letter threatening to sue.

            Like or not like the guy, but his financial practices are shaddy at best.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Exactly. The amount this guy Doc claims he knows is completely unsubstantiated. He hasn’t put forth a single bit of information beyond what appears to be random speculation.

          • Doc

            The more you talk, the more you sound like an idiot. Learn to read what people say, and you might learn a few things.

            Seriously, quit while you’re ahead.

          • Zelle

            I’ll be honest and say I believe neither of you are right or wrong. On the one hand you should never make an assumption and should leave it to facts. On the other hand Melnyk seems to try his best to make the facts unavailable to the public and conveniently contradicts himself to fit the dialogue of the month. At this point in time I believe we would probably be better served as fans and the Senators as an organization if he sold the team to someone a little more.. sensible?

          • runningbear1974

            You are more the voice of reason than the other ‘voice of reason’… That’s for sure…

          • Doc

            Shaddy is an understatement.

            Like mentioned in a previous post, a lot of the other financial statements can be found though. Most of it is public information.

          • Zelle

            Hrm I’ll give it another try then. I have read the links posted by bloggers and whatnot but it wasn’t all clear. I am just highly skeptical about people who try to hide everything they can. I invest in stocks and if I come across a company that isn’t posting their financials or their CFO / CEO double speaks then I don’t even consider buying their shares and stay as far away as possible. The lawsuits, allegations, and use of the government of Barbados make me wish he would sell the team to someone a little more transparent…

          • peetypuck

            If you look around the league you will see that Bettman has reconfigured things so that the league is based on corporate support and TV. Ottawa, being a government town does not have a lot of corporate support compared to most NHL cities.

          • runningbear1974

            You sure do recommend research a lot, and opening eyes… You’re right, the problem is the open-ness of my eyes…
            There are all sorts of fans, you can be whatever type you want…
            I like cheering for the upcoming guys… I hate the entitled bullshit players…

  • CaMo

    Fingers crossed the Spezza deal goes down with either Dallas or Anaheim, they are the teams that have the proper pieces to get a good deal done.

  • Phil.

    Whether the offer to Hemsky is a low ball offer depends on context. If it’s the initial offer, at 10M 3y, it’s a spot to start negotiating. Hemsky supposedly wants more than 5.5 a year, so say 17M for 3y. To me that’s just as ridiculous.
    His actually salary, I suspect, is probably going to be somewhere in the middle.
    So Sens started low, Hemsky started high; sounds like a negotiation to me. It just didn’t work out.

    • Pasky

      From the sounds of it though, there wasn’t much of a negotiation. The Sens made their offer of 3yr 10M, Hemsky said no and he wanted more so they gave up there. If it was a negotiation, then the Sens would be willing to offer more than this and meet in the middle but this sounds more like the Sens saying this is the best we’re offering you. Makes it sound like penny pinching for sure.

      For the record I wouldn’t offer Hemsky more than 4.5M and no longer than 3 years.

      • CaMo

        Let’s trade his rights now so we didn’t completely waste. He isn’t signing in Ottawa and that’s okay.

      • Phil.

        You may be right but it could be the other around too, ie Hemsky saying he’s wants 5.5 a year will accept no less (to stay in OTT). Money grab instead of penny pinch.

      • peetypuck

        The only way Murray should have offered Hemsky more was in a bonus clause that he has to play X amount of games. Otherwise he’ll be on the injured list for half the season like he did in Edmonton.

  • SensChirp

    So what is the breaking point for the remaining Melnyk-defenders? Noticed there are a few of them in the comment section today. When do you start to worry about the direction this team is headed? Is it if Bobby Ryan doesn’t sign an extension this summer?

    • spezzerman

      thats mine…

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      Great question… It even seems like chirp has both feet almost out the door.

    • Hax

      That would be it for me I think. One (positive) extreme would be if Ryan and some of MacArthur, Methot, Anderson, Lehner get extensions. If Ryan doesn’t get extended (or worse we hear rumors of him wanting out) then I would probably get very worried.

      I’m not as much a Melnyk “defender” as a Murray believer though. I do think Melnyk is nuts/foolish but I hope that Murray has enough control to still build a winning team and convince Melnyk to spend when it makes sense.

      • runningbear1974

        Funny… I used to say that because Melnyk believes in Murray than i believe in Melnyk… I’m also hoping that Dorion is the right next person…

      • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

        I trust Murray when he is given the ability to be Murray.. When he is having his hands constantly forced he unfortunately can’t do his thing

        • Hax

          But that’s what brings me back to Murray extending. I can’t fathom why he would if Melnyk is forcing Murray’s hand and meddling etc.

          • peetypuck

            That’s an excellent point. Murray doesn’t need to work anymore. He made his money long ago. If he was being held back from building a contender he would just quit or sign with another team.

          • SensChirp

            Nah. He has long term stability here and is from the area. Was given two years in the GM spot (regardless of performance) and then a more senior-role after that. Murray isn’t going to get a much better situation than that at this stage of his career.

          • runningbear1974

            His point is that Murray doesn’t have to work if he doesn’t want to… If he is working it’s because he wants to, and because he believes in what he’s doing…

          • SensChirp

            And to get paid

          • runningbear1974

            His point is that he doesn’t need the money… The money is not is strong motivator, winning is more of a motivator for him… That’s the point he’s making…

          • SensChirp

            His point is inaccurate then. Murray is completely handcuffed and has been for a couple years. But having one of the 30 GM jobs and not having to worry about an Owner canning you AND getting a cushy front office job afterwards was plenty to make him stay and do his best to work within the budget set out by Melnyk.

            Melnyk isn’t making decisions for Murray. But he is limiting what he can do

          • peetypuck

            I think you’re being too cynical about Murray. He could probably get a nice, cushy job as a consultant on a contending team.

          • SensChirp

            Except this is his hometown and the job he wants. Not being
            cynical at all. Murray understands the situation he is in and is doing
            his best to make it work. And probably also hoping that budget
            flexibility will eventually be there.

          • peetypuck

            Agreed, I think he sincerely wants to bring his hometown the Stanley Cup. But a cushy job, working for Melnyk? Sounds more like an oxymoron to me. LOL

          • runningbear1974

            Yeah, that’s your point i guess… Murray would stay for the cushy job… The other guy was saying he doesn’t need to if he doesn’t want to… Your saying he would want to just for the cushy-ness… Maybe, probably… Sometimes people twist things around so it supports their point of view…

          • peetypuck

            I think Murray has stated he would still like to win the SC cup. If Melnyk is what everybody is accusing him to be it would be pointless for Murray to stay on making excuses for him. Money would not be his prime motivator.

          • jimmyjohnson

            “SC cup” – Is that like a jock strap to protect the lower rings?

          • peetypuck

            lol, at least someone still has a sense of humour today. Good one.

        • jimmyjohnson

          you base your opinion that his hands are forced on what?

          Murray says to Melnyk in 2011 “we need a rebuild”

          Melnyk says “ok, but we’re not going to spend above the cap floor, then”

          Murray says “np.”

          ….

          When we’re officially rebuilt and contending… and they are still a budget team….. then I will submit to being wrong.

          until then, they are still just following the initial blueprint, with some obvious modifications, based on the Alfie and Spezza situations respectively.

          • Tooks

            Well its 2014 and we are hardly rebuilt…infact I think we are more dismantled…When do you expect Melnyk to spend? 2018?

          • jimmyjohnson

            2016-17, I would hope that we’re spending. By that time, our young guys will be known quantities. The question is “how do you project a cap for this team without knowing what level the young talent spread all across the roster will become?”

            What if you commit a bunch of money to players x, y, and z and then Stone becomes a top line scorer, Cowen and Ceci become legit top pairing defensemen, and Lehner becomes a top-10 goalie? All of a sudden, you have the exorbitant long term FA contracts that almost always underperform and become hard to move, and a bunch of home grown talent that you can’t keep…you become the Chicago Blackhawks, only probably without the Cups.

    • runningbear1974

      Absolutely, it’s about Bobby Ryan… That’s when we really know what’s up…

    • CaMo

      How are these people so blind To ‘Montgomery Burns’ Melnyk’s cheap ways. He’s one of the worst owners in professional sports not just hockey. He meddles with Murray, he is over dramatic (Thinking about his forensic investigation) and he wont spend to the cap again.

      • spezzerman

        rational people realize cant see into the future. He has also said he will spend when its necessary. Spending on hemsky isnt necessary. Spending on Ryan is. This summer is what its all about. I’m not oozing confidence everything will be okay though

        • CaMo

          Hemsky aside. The Alfie debacle is his fault. This pending Spezza deal is his fault. I’m on the side of Spezza, no player wants to be on a team that doesn’t spend to win but is okay with spending on a joke, year long, ‘forensic investigation’ that will never go anywhere And Name calling is part of the fun. WAKE UP BOYS

          • Hax

            On the Spezza thing, while I agree with him if Spezza really did ask to leave due to lack of spending on talent, I also am okay with us moving on anyway. Even if Spezza wanted to stay I’d be okay with trading him and handing things over to Turris/Zibanejad/Lazar.

          • runningbear1974

            Alfie has not been the same since his concussion against the Rangers… He’s had several emotional breakdowns… I think his emotions have been exaggerated since…

          • FistsofNeil25

            jesus christ

          • jimmyjohnson

            I don’t really agree with this. I think he was just nearing the end of his career and was focused on helping the young team grow and improve. When the games mattered, Alfie was still right there propelling us to victory.

          • runningbear1974

            Alfie’s last year with us was my favourite one… He’s plays really well as an undergod… That’s his strength i think…

          • jimmyjohnson

            Cooke may have permanently affected Melnyk’s multi-multi million dollar businesses #1 asset. He has every right to seek damages.

            The people who need to wake up are the ones dreaming that their take on the situation, one filled with rumours and speculation, is somehow reality.

            One thing you all have in common: you’re very heavy handed in your delivery. It would be nice if some of you would at least admit that you don’t know the exact circumstances of this privately held entity’s financial realities.

          • FistsofNeil25

            haha that’s a fair request

          • CaMo

            I know there are 2 types of owners. The type that give the GM x amount of money and let them make the decisions, and the type that allocate x amount of money and need to sign off on everything before it happens. I want the first kind , and Eugene is the ladder type of owner.

          • jimmyjohnson

            “latter” kind… and you don’t know that. I could see it, but he may just be the type of owner that talks too much to the press. He might not meddle. I don’t really see Murray as the type of guy who would succumb to any meddling from ownership either.

            I blame our recent failures on Muckler for leaving us nothing to fill the roster with when players priced themselves out (which was a cap issue back then, not an ownership issue). I appreciate the struggle it has obviously been to ice a winner in the last 5 years with so little in the cupboard, and I like what Murray has done to revamp the system.

            Melnyk hired Murray and didn’t fire him like fans wanted in 2011. If this team becomes a winner, both deserve considerable thanks and congratulations. It would be advisable for the fan base to have some patience and not alienate these guys before we know what their plan is.

          • CaMo

            lol spelling police over here. I’m seeing lots of comma splices around today you should go fix.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I’m typing for verbal delivery. I use commas in chat to denote a pause in speech, effecting delivery. If I were to type formally, I wouldn’t splice so much :D

          • CaMo

            Ya well I’m typing for verbal delivery too. Latter and ladder sound exactly the same when you say them out loud.

          • jimmyjohnson

            no

            they don’t.

          • Jakester

            Spezza’s being traded cuz he sucks stop with Spezza being a money issue. This team is turning the page on him.

        • jimmyjohnson

          +1

      • runningbear1974

        If you make a good point you can just state it…. If you have to call people names, or exaggerate, than you’re probably not making a good point…
        It’s not being “blind” that’s the problem… It’s not having the same perception of events… Having a budget makes sense, don’t need to argue against that… Exactly what the budget should be, can make some arguments about that…

      • jimmyjohnson

        You don’t know that he meddles. It’s all rumour and conjecture.

        • CaMo

          Like I said below. I know there are 2 types of owners. The type that give the GM x amount of money and let them make the hockey decisions, and the type that allocate x amount of money and need to sign off on everything before it happens. I want the first kind , and Eugene is the ladder type of owner.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Like I said below, you don’t know that. And it’s “latter”.

          • CaMo

            Are you an English teacher? you know what I meant troll

    • Pasky

      Yup, the Bobby Ryan contract is basically the only thing that’s preventing me from completely losing it. If we gave up 3 key pieces to get this guy just to los ehim 2 years later cause he’s too cheap to offer him say 6.5M or 7M a year, which I think is what he is looking for AND worth, then that’ll be the last straw for me. Either that or if god forbid Karlsson decides to walk away from this team as well because he wants to go to a contender.

      • runningbear1974

        Also, Bobby Ryan is the TYPE of player we should want… He doesn’t hesitate to skate back defensively… He likes hitting people and getting hit…. AND, he gets lots of points… We have to re-sign him, or this isn’t a team…

        • jimmyjohnson

          Let’s not romanticize the guy. He’s a good player for the most part, but he has some incredibly lazy moments in the defensive zone. It won’t be long before people really start picking up on that….

          • Pasky

            So since we’re trading away Spezza your nominating Ryan as our new whipping boy. Got it

          • jimmyjohnson

            I’m not trying to lol.

            I haven’t had a whipping boy in years (since the Heatley-Spezza era when both were just awful in their last year together.

            I’m just saying that Ryan isn’t a perfect 200 foot player and it cost us goals at least a half a dozen times this year. Nothing to be concerned about (they can’t all be Jonathan Toews), but still something that, one day, when the moment is key and his effort is Ovechkyien, people will take notice and a reputation will be created.

            Just watch. I’d bet good money on it.

          • Pasky

            Maybe but I don’t have an issue with having 1 Ovechkyien type of player that’s best at scoring goals. It’s not like the guy doesn’t back check at all either but does he have the odd screw up sure. Pair him with Turris or Zibanejad who are defensively responsible and can still put points and who gives a shit in my opinion.

            We can’t have a team full of 2-way players without a gamebreaker, otherwise we will be the Blues and lose in the 1st round. There’s a reason why they want Spezza so badly.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Nope, I agree. I like Ryan. I like his game. I’d pay to keep him here.

          • runningbear1974

            I don’t agree… I didn’t see the lazyness… At all… I think he is a true competitor… Just like i never saw Turris or MacArthur be lazy…

          • jimmyjohnson

            Then you, like many others, definitely missed a few things.

          • runningbear1974

            I’ll wait and see before final judgement…

          • CaMo

            As long as he’s ripping wrist shots from the hashmarks to the back of the net and playing with Turris and MacArthur (good defensively) he can be a little lazy if he wants and they will cover up his mistakes.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I don’t necessarily agree, but I don’t have much of an issue with his play.

      • CaMo

        What if his reason for leaving is not based on his own salary but his desire to win and the lack of spending elsewhere on the team? Like Spezza – if you don’t spend on a good supporting cast for me I’ll go play somewhere who wants to win. Sorry I don’t want Colin Greening on my wing for the next 3 years.

        • Pasky

          Yea same thing I’m out…

          To me we should be spending during the 2016-2017 season. By then our younger players will be experienced enough to carry the team, and that’s when Neil and Phillips contracts are up. They should NOT be re-signed afterwards, that way we can officially remove all players involved in the 07 Cup run, and have our rebuilt complete. If we’re a budget team then still, then we will be a budget team until Melnyk sells the team.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Yeah I should have mentioned that above: Not re-signing Phillips and Neil after their contracts are up is a big one for me. Personally, I don’t want either of them on the team (now) passed the upcoming season, but I can deal with it if they finish their contracts. After that, though, we’d better be moving on to the youth we have already in the system.

    • Doc

      Seriously, I’m sorry but I’m more fed-up with these fans that the whole Melnyk thing.

      Makes us look dumb as a fanbase.

      • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

        If we could thumb up comments more than once I think I’d spend the rest of my day doing it to this comment

        • CaMo

          I’d be right there with you.

      • runningbear1974

        It is my opinion that it is those with the signs that say “In Spezza We Trust” that make us look bad… It would be like the Toronto fans “in Phaneuf We Trust”….

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          There are VERY few blind Spezza fans… Who say he does no wrong

    • Phil.

      I assume I count as a melnyk-defender, although I do not really consider myself one. I am a Melnyk-accepter. He’s the owner, I accept that. I also accept OTT is a budget team and might be for a while. I don’t confuse the owner’s personality with the fact that OTT is a budget team. And I don’t assume that every time something I wished had happened but doesn’t, that’s it’s directly the owner’s fault.
      If Bobby Ryan is not resigned solely for financial reasons, I’ll reconsider.

      • runningbear1974

        That’s exactly how i think about it…

      • CaMo

        What if Bobby Ryan doesn’t sign not because he doesn’t get the money HE wants but instead he decides not to sign because he’s not getting the financial support he needs from management to have a good supporting cast?

        • Doc

          #fansfault

        • runningbear1974

          I doubt he would say that, he’s not that type of player… But, if he did, i would believe him… That would definitely be a turning point for me….

          • CaMo

            Well that’s exactly what Spezza is saying. That’s what Alfie said. So what? fool you 3 times and you catch on?

          • runningbear1974

            It’s different coming from Spezza and Alfie…

          • CaMo

            …Feel free to tell me how it’s different…

          • SensChirp

            Not what “type of player”? One who enjoys winning?

          • runningbear1974

            He’s not the type of player to blame other people for not winning… That’s what you’re doing when you say you need more financial support, translates to “Get Condra off the team, and bring in someone better”…
            He would say that he should have done different, or better… He wouldn’t blame the other guys…
            Everyone enjoys winning…
            I think Ryan is a winner, playoff type player… I think he makes people better… I believe in him…
            Versus some of our other leaders have been used to giving excuses for losing… Shaking their heads and saying “shucks”…

          • jimmyjohnson

            “If we could thumb up comments more than once I think I’d spend the rest of my day doing it to this comment”

          • SensChirp

            I’m saving these two comments :)

          • jimmyjohnson

            I object :D

          • KJ

            I have played with personalities like that on various house teams when I was younger and it is detrimental to a “team” concept for certain. Get rid of this player, because he sucks” and “we aren’t ever going to win with this player on our team”. a$$holes. A leader, a true one anyways, shows we he can do, and takes the team to a different level with everyone on the bus, and no one under it. And I agree, I do not think Ryan is the former type. I could see Heatley being one of the latter though, which is toxic.

          • runningbear1974

            I like that MacLean is a coach that focuses on development… He needs to continue that… Everyone needs to learn from everyone… When you make a mistake, go back out there and figure it out…We can’t have players that are too good to learn…

    • Mr. Seller

      One signing won’t do it for me. Not even if it’s Ryan. You know Melnyk/Murray are well in tuned with the fanbase sentiment. Ryan’s extension would only replace Spezza’s so no new money will be spent. To me that is status quo and not a sign of better things. I want to see the core re-signed and some key new pieces added. Only then will I have hope for this team.

      • Hax

        Agreed but Ryan is a big start. Especially if it happens July 1st.

        But yes, they would need to build on that with more extensions for the right players and/or good Spezza return etc. Depending on the return they’ll need at least one UFA too.

      • Mr. Seller

        The Edit function doesn’t seem to be working for me right now but I wanted to elaborate on the point I was making about Melnyk/Murray being in tuned to the fanbase sentiment. They know they need a big signing to calm the waters and I think extending Ryan is that big splash they think will achieve just that. But like I mentioned, that is recycled money and as fans we should expect more than that.

        • runningbear1974

          What are you saying? They must make a big UFA move to show they’re serious? Other teams also want these big UFAs… They’re not easy to get… You often have to overpay for those players…
          I prefer we be picky about the character of the player…

          • Sandy

            The Sens in no way can compete with other teams for UFAs.
            They won’t spend the $$ to compete to begin with.
            If they did a survey today of NHL players on places they don’t want to go, Ottawa would definitely be in the top 5.
            This used to be a franchise a lot looked up to. In a small market, but a competitive team.
            Now the Owner drives Alfie out of town with lowball offers and rumoured drunken rants.
            In the next year, their top centre wants out because he can’t win anything here.
            He calls his peers idiots because they spend money. But guess what, take out the Leafs and the Sabres, most of those idiot owners’ teams have had some success.
            I’ve had it with him.
            I’ve been a STH for close to 10 years and have spent a hell of a lot of money on the team and it’s merchandise.
            I’ve gone to Florida twice on my $$ to watch them play. I’ve been to Toronto, Montreal as well. I’ve made 3 trips to Bingo to watch the prospects.
            So it’s my right to rant.
            A lot of fans will start thinking if the Owner isn’t spending money on the team I cheer for, then why should I?

          • jimmyjohnson

            That’s a little extreme. I can think of at least 8-10 places I’d rather not play than Ottawa. We’re probably comfortably in the bottom 15 for best places to play, but bottom 5? I don’t think so.

            The STH and spending argument I also don’t agree with. This team is exciting to watch now. I never wanted to go watch them in 09, 10, or 11… I enjoy being there now though. Such a high even team!! Why wouldn’t you spend now, if you’ve been spending this whole time.

            And as far as the owner’s spending, if he is being strategic in his not spending, then we shouldn’t be upset. Imagine a pool of like $300 million for 5 years. The owner says, we spend absolutely no more than this. Well, do you want him to spend $60 million every year because it’s closer to the cap? Or do you want him to spend $50 million for seasons 1 and 2, then $60 in year 3, and then $70 in years 4 and 5? Given where the on ice product is at, I think I’d definitely opt for option 2!

          • Mr. Seller

            Other teams want these big UFAs but no other team has a complete top 6 line to fill. Re-signing Ryan doesn’t even fill one of those spots. So to answer your question, yes, we do need to make a big splash this summer that doesn’t involve Ryan. The Spezza trade may bring back a key piece but that will still leave two huge holes in the top 6. Some may be happy with filling one of those holes with a youngster like Stone but even if you can live with that, there’s still one more hugely important spot to fill. It will take a big UFA signing to complete our top 6 whichever way you look at it.

          • runningbear1974

            Cool… I would be happy with another MacArthur type siging…

      • spezzerman

        its more about what that means. Of course Ryan isnt the answer to the Cup but that’s what he wants and if he signs, he feels like Ottawa gives him that chance during the length of this contract.

    • jimmyjohnson

      Yeah not signing B.Ry is a big one, but it’s not the be-all, end-all. If Ryan doesn’t want to re-sign, then we can’t do much about that. If he does though, I’m pretty sure they’ll get it done, and I expect it done this year.

      For me, the main thing is whether they are willing to spend when the time is right. That means any time after this coming season, whenever they rise to the level of a contender. Until then, I don’t mind watching this young team .

    • ZibbyFan

      If Bobby doesn’t sign and Spezza is traded, our marquee / franchise players are gone and i would view this as we are no longer committed to win a cup. Unless Murray brings the same calibre of player back into the fold, I’d almost have to review my commitment to buying season tickets and maybe only attend the odd game.

    • zippy

      All along Melnyk has said he’ll spend when the time is right. So if this year or next our D starts to look great (we end up in the top 4 in the East), and he chooses NOT to spend to put us over the top, I’ll give up and hope we get a new owner.

    • KJ

      There isn’t really a breaking point for me beyond him going actually bankrupt or pulling a Donald Stirling (can’t see that ever happening), or not being able to retain all the in-house talent they have spent so much time and resources developing. I am a fan of this team, and thank EM for taking on all the risk and spending his money (not mine) to buy this team and pulling this team out of their true depths of despair back in the Bryden days.

      Melnyk is as big a fan of this team as any of us. Maybe that hurts him publically sometimes, but he is passionate about the Sens and the community they reside in.

  • Hax
  • SensChirp

    Bob McKenzie indicating that the Senators were not willing to give Da Costa a one way deal and that he’ll now head to the KHL.

    • CaMo

      I won’t miss him.

    • Hax

      Too bad but I think a one-way deal for him would have been a bit of a risk. Can’t blame either side really.

    • Pasky

      Not a big deal. Would have been nice to give him a try but I’m a Lazar believer that he at least gets his 9 game tryout and possibly more.

    • runningbear1974

      That’s too bad… We already have 2 new players coming in next year… Hoffman and Stone… Too bad he wasn’t bigger…

    • peetypuck

      That’s one less Smurf to worry about.

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      Not a big deal… And can’t really blame them here. Too bad they couldn’t move him though

    • Doc

      So either we get a center back in a trade, or it’s Pageau’s job to lose.

      • Hax

        Or Lazar’s job to steal?

        I had been saying Lazar should play another of junior and “over-ripe” like Detroit does with their prospects. But I’ve seen/read a few things lately that have me thinking maybe he is “NHL ready” after all.

        • Doc

          I really dislike rushing prospects though. More often than not it hurts their development. I really like Lazar and am excited to see him develop, but I think the hype train is in full effect right now. People might expect too mush out of him too soon.

          That being said, maybe he’ll be lights out at training camp and ‘win’ the job, but Pageau is a more proven commodity (as of now).

          • Hax

            Yeah I’m with you. I was dead-set against it before but now just open to the idea if Dorion/Murray/MacLean all think he’s ready. Someone on TSN1200 the other day (Yorkie?) suggested they just let him blow past his 10th game but still send him to the world juniors etc.

          • CaMo

            Especially if they aren’t a playoff team the WJC would be awesome for him. I love it when young NHL’ers get a chance to dominate that tourney.

    • Tooks

      Meh on Da Costa, he wasnt going to be in our top 6 and he’s useless in a bottom 6 role. He’ll be a perfect fit in the KHL skill game.

  • Hax

    The thing is, nearly every decision these days (and for the past 3 years almost) has two ways to look at it. You can make convincing arguments that nearly every decision was influenced by money and we took the cheap way out. The few times we did spend can often be dismissed as a need to get to the cap floor or quiet fans etc.

    But you can also look at nearly every decision and come up with hockey-based reasons for them that have nothing to do with money. If nobody was allowed to know how much players make we could have a very different opinion of the situation.

    It’s naive to think we’re not trying to run lean and spend less of course, but I think it’s unfair to assume that for every decision Murray’s only question is “which option is cheaper”.

    • peetypuck

      I’m still willing to give management the benefit of the doubt that once the team is ready to contend again they will spend to the cap again. I think everyone believes that Melnyk is a cheapskate.

  • spezzerman

    I keep coming back to Ceci. If this team made purely budget decisions, Ceci never would have sniffed the NHL this year. They didnt have to give him $800,000 extra but they did cause they felt he earned it.

    It may not be much of a straw to hold on to but just try to take this out my grasp right now…its all I got left

    • sprucesens

      they saw their D was horrible, and ceci was far superior to half of them this year. They saw that he makes more money, but the chance at playoff earnings out weighed that. Dig deeper than 1 decision and its easy to find a business first move

  • FistsofNeil25

    To the people that are defending Murray’s lowball offer to Hemsky:

    It’s not the fact that we all want Hemsky back that upsets us. Personally I couldn’t give a damn about Hemsky. It’s the fact that we low-balled him so hard with this offer that it’s insulting, and borderline offensive. Murray knows that there’s zero chance that Hemsky and his agent would accept the deal, and who likely be insulted to the point that they wouldn’t make a counter offer.

    Murray should have just left the situation alone and simply said that he isn’t comfortable paying Hemsky market value and that he doesn’t fit within the team’s salary structure.
    Instead he low-balled him and the offer went public, and it gives the fan-base and people within the NHL just another reason to laugh at the Senators. We haven’t had much positive news since last summer. We don’t need any more bad publicity.

    For a hockey club that needs to rebuild their reputation as a competent organization and place that people should want to be, this entire situation was completely avoidable.

    • Hax

      It’s low but I don’t think it’s embarrassing or offensive.

      I’m sure Murray knew he’d never accept it but if Hemsky is insulted then he’s a baby.

      • Tooks

        People just dont understand…
        Its not only Hemsky, its every other 4-5Mil guy who just saw this go down.

        • sprucesens

          well said tooks. other players see the low ball offers too. Soon we’ll start looking worse than Edmonton and winnipeg

          • Hax

            Other players see the low ball offers and ….. what? Either we make them an offer they like or we make them an offer they don’t like. Are you suggesting that a player would say “your offer is fine but after what you offered Hemsky I’m going to decline”?

            I just don’t see how there’s any relationship between an offer we make to Hemsky and any other UFA.

          • sprucesens

            the fact that a player might sign for 3 mill now, but then if they produce, like say macA, we will low ball him to like 3.5 million, instead of that he should get market value around 5. Its a combination of ALL the recent moves. Low ball hemsky, low ball alfie, give little to no chance to college UFA’s like da costa, and when we do, they play with the same crap players that spezza is sick of playing with.Spezza couldn’t produce with our 4th liners, how do we expect da costa to? Or Hoffman for that matter, since some seem to already be sour on him. In 1 short year, we’ve upset our longest serving captain, our best 1C and most dynamic offensive player yet, made strange moves with da costa and zib at the start of the year, confused methot and ryan mid year, acquired a reasonable talent at the deadline, then lowballed him too, and are probably trying to lowball michalek now too, someone who for some reason, has actually shown interest to continue playing here. So while its not just hemsky I was referring to, if I’m a player, I’m more than aware of how we have recently treated our players, lifers or newly acquired. The feel good signing of Phillips is by far the worst player we could have signed out of all of these, and that’s the deal that gets signed.

        • jimmyjohnson

          Or they see that we (are rumoured to have) offered Hemsky less than $3.5M and now we’re offering them $4.5M, so obviously we feel they are a little more valuable and worth the money.

          Or, like Hax said, it doesn’t factor in at all….

          • Hax

            Get out of here with your logic and “sense-making”.

            LOL – seriously, I know as fans we’re sort of supposed to fly off the handle all the time but this rumored offer to Hemsky is not that big a deal.

    • runningbear1974

      I don’t want Hemsky on the team, but i would take him at 3 million…

      • FistsofNeil25

        You don’t want Hemsky on the team but you would take him at 3M
        Do you not see how little sense that statement makes.

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          It makes about as much sense as most of his statements taken alone or as a collective opinion.

          Flip Flops almost as often as tookie

        • runningbear1974

          It’s about value… I liked Fisher at 2 million… When he got 5 million i was get rid of him… Same with Bonk… At 2 million, he’s good, at 4 million he’s junk…
          Hemsky at 5 million puts him top 2 lines…. I don’t want him in that role… He would suck there for me…
          Whereas Hemsky on the 3rd line, to help develop a rookie, is a role he could be successful at… Those are some of my thoughts about it…
          It makes sense to me…

          • FistsofNeil25

            You are totally out of touch with the reality.

          • runningbear1974

            At least i’m aware of that… I feel similarly with Spezza… As a 3rd line center i would want him on my team… But, as top 2, i don’t want him, too much of defensive liability…
            Some players cost too much for what i think their actual value is to a team…

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Seriously stop…. I just choked reading this… Coffee spewed out my nose.

            Spezza as a third line center… Have you EVER watched a hockey game?

          • runningbear1974

            I’ve seen most sens games… I believe the strategy to have a winning team with Spezza is to put him on the 3rd line… On the top line against top teams he’s terrible… Every single top team,,, Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago, LA, would destroy Spezza… They would continually take advantage of him being out of position…
            I’ve seen most sens games… There’s no way Spezza could beat any of the top teams who have similar skill but more defensive effort…. So, the solution to that is give him protected minutes….

          • jimmyjohnson

            Teams will play their best defenders against the best players. You can’t make other teams stop doing that by listing Spezza as your 3rd line center or yelling “hey, stop! he’s our third line guy!! Play your other guys against him…”

          • CaMo

            I just ignore the runningbear now… he’s high for every post he makes.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I was kind of in agreement (with the general theory) up until now. Spezza is clearly a #1 center and half the reason why Turris put up so many points this year is because Spezza was handling the big boy load.

          • runningbear1974

            I’m not trying to change other people’s perspective… I’m just sharing mine, and i’m aware that my thoughts are unorthodox… My claim is that the solution to Spezza is to give him 3rd line duties… That’s one of the possible solutions for him… Another is to play him on the wing… Another is to get really really awesome wingers for him..
            We’ll find out next year about Turris… I think his success this year has to do with Ryan…

          • CaMo

            Whatever you’re smoking, I want some. It must be nice living in LALA land…. Hemsky has always been and will likely forever be a top 6 forward.

          • runningbear1974

            I’m not sharing with you… I don’t even know you….

          • CaMo

            And you don’t know hockey either obviously.

          • runningbear1974

            that’s obviously obvious…

            I guess you have a different point of view than me…

            Well, after this little interchange i think i’m still not sharing with you…

    • MethotToMyMadness

      I don’t think it’s insulting either, It’s business. If I’m looking around for something I need or want, I never just agree to the asking price, even if it seems reasonable. I usually come in at 30% and go through the back and forth. Sometimes you get lucky and meet in the middle, sometimes you pay closer to the asking. That’s a basic buy and sell technique and it’s common everywhere, even in the NHL. Problem is everything is made public now, and it all sounds worse than it has to be.

      Hemsky’s agent could have countered, that would’ve been the expected move. At least to lay the ground work, but they didn’t. So that just shows Hemsky wasn’t really willing to work out a deal at all. Personally, Murray did what any GM would do and make him an offer, considering what they paid out to get him for the last 20 games. .

    • jimmyjohnson

      Why would you care? It doesn’t make sense. It just sounds like a build up of disappointment and fear spewing out in this nonsensical upset.

    • spezzerman

      A wise man once said; “you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.” ;)

      • Doc

        Another one said: “60% of the time, it works every time.”

  • FistsofNeil25

    While I’m not surprised the Sens weren’t prepared to offer Da Costa a one way deal, you’d think they may be a team out there willing to take a gamble on him for a late draft pick or something?

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      I’m kind of shocked by that too… By not loving him does this mean we keep his rights if he were to even come back?

    • Hax

      Apparently not or I assume they wouldn’t be talking KHL as his only other option. Makes me feel better about letting him go knowing that no other team thinks he’s an NHLer yet.

    • Jakester

      I agree, don’t get that one? Guys like DaCosta and Grant should be in the NHL

    • MethotToMyMadness

      I know, I figured he’d get a shot. He’s done so much, everything Ottawa asked of him. But that decision probably has a lot to do with who’s waiting in the wings. And it’s even further proof that Ottawa does not intend to move any of our current Centers, so rumors of Smith to anywhere, can almost be extinguished.

      • runningbear1974

        That’s a good point about Smith.. Seeing LA win might mean we realize we need more strength than skill…

        • spezzerman

          LA is a perfect balance of everything. you need a little bit of everything,and you need it to click at the right time. there is no magic formula.

          • Tooks

            Well there is, its called having a top 6 and top 4 and a hell of a goalie!! LOL
            We have half a top 6 and nothing close to a top 4 and lucky if our goalies can keep it under 3GAA…

          • jimmyjohnson

            They had a top 9

          • Sandy

            They had a top 12.

          • Sandy

            Yes they are now the model franchise.
            And they have an idiot Owner who will spend. All it got him was another Stanley Cup. The 2nd in 3 yrs.. What an idiot!

          • runningbear1974

            It makes sense for LA to spend the way they do… Kopitar at 6.8… Great #1 center, plays both ways, hits people, passes, shoots… He’s great value at 6.8 million….
            We don’t have the players to be paying that much to… If we could get our hands on a Carter, or Williams, or Brown even…
            Notice that all the players play hard at every aspect of the team…
            The sens have to 1) get rid of players that don’t play 2-way, 2) get strong players that do play 2-way … We have to do both those things… No one will give us their Carters… We have to either build these players, or use the prospects to trade for these players… It’s not easy to do…. It takes time… He would be an idiot for paying this team the salary cap…

          • runningbear1974

            They all seem to like to hit and be hit… They all try and make plays… They play hard as a team… They’re the team i would want to try and emulate…
            Chicago, Pittsburgh is too unrealistic for our organization… However, LA and Boston is more achievable…

          • jimmyjohnson

            Actually, our organizational construct is remarkably similar to Chicago. Remarkably so…

          • runningbear1974

            Interesting… I do think Bowman is the genius in the NHL… He’s the guy who really understands the value of players…
            I was thinking we won’t be able to get the same quality of players as Crosby, Malkin, Toews, and Kane… We’ll need to make a team with players not as good as those guys, like LA’s team…

          • jimmyjohnson

            Karlsson is on that level

          • runningbear1974

            Yeah, like Doughty…

          • jimmyjohnson

            Doughty is a different animal completely.

            Karlsson, Crosby, Malkin, Kane

            All similar players (skill wise)

            Toews, Doughty

            More of the 200 foot all stars.

          • runningbear1974

            Well…. I don’t think i will agree with you about every player… In my mind, Doughty and Karlsson are very similar players… Doughty made a lot of defensive mistakes by pushing his skills…

      • jimmyjohnson

        He should be prepared to play one more season in the AHL. This team committed a lot of time to developing him and he should be happy to challenge for a spot on such a barren roster.

      • jimmyjohnson

        I’m pretty sure they intend to move at least one of their current centers ;)

      • spezzerman

        well, Lazar, Pageau and Grant are still options so you never know

    • spezzerman

      he passed through waivers last season, didnt he?

  • Jakester

    With all the crap thats happening, i think we see Spezza traded sooner than later – like very soon. Then Murray will start to see what needs to be done.

    • Hax

      I hope Murray doesn’t move Spezza early just to appease the fans. And, really, he won’t. If he feels he can get a better deal waiting until Spezza’s eligible for a sign-and-trade he’ll wait.

      I get the desire of fans to get it over with, and share it, but I want maximum value.

      • jimmyjohnson

        My concern is that Murray moves Spezza to get a 1st round pick just to have one. I don’t like that concept at all. He talks too much about trying to get a pick in this draft.

        • Hax

          I can’t see him doing that. This draft is not great beyond the first 3-4 guys and we draft well enough in the 2nd round and beyond that getting a first rounder isn’t a big deal.

          • jimmyjohnson

            We have only 3 picks though. Murray always talks about wanting to reward his staff for their hard work by giving them something to do.

            I said it a few days ago (and I’ll amend it to be a little more trusting):
            I’m not sure I trust Murray to handle this trade correctly.

        • runningbear1974

          That’s what i want… Some good draft picks (like Ceci, or Lazar)… We can always sign a UFA like MacArthur….

        • KJ

          his scouts might see something they really like. BM does trust his scouts. even though the perception is the draft is “weak”.

    • Tooks

      No team will trade assets now when they can wait till July 1st and get Stasny for free.

      • jimmyjohnson

        Yep and 29 teams still be looking for a center on July 2nd when Stastny signs whereever.

  • Terry

    Everyone is quite worked up this morning. I don’t blame them because it has been a long offseason. I am on the fence as to support or hate management at the moment, I am waiting after FA and draft day.
    Management does not include Melynk. He has made public that he intends to spend when the time is right, and it maybe true. The Senators were not ready last year to compete for the Cup, they were ready to make the playoffs but not the cup. There were just too many “Ifs”. Like, “If Spezza is a good leader, If Spezza can up his defensive game, If Ryan can score 30+ goals, If Anderson can maintain his level, If the young defense can step up” Everyone had such high expectations of last year (probably clouded from the previous 2 years, myself included) that, IMO the Senators put WAY TO MUCH pressure on themselves and were doomed to fail. At the moment ONLY Melynk knows for sure if he will spend when the team shows consistantly being playoff contenders. Maybe Murray does but the point is WE don’t. Now EM’s track record certainly not helping, but those are the facts. Ryan signing with MacArthur would possibly calm some. But my point is that I don’t want another KOVALEV,
    Just my opinion.

    • zippy

      Agreed. Murray did say up front that basically Weircioch and Cowen have to have awesome years, and many other pieces have to fall in place for us to have a chance. Very few did.

      Spending to the cap now is throwing money away until you know Cowen and Weircioch and our D in general are getting better.

      You see LA in the finals. You know where we need to be.

  • Rafi Bomb

    I think we still retain Da Costa’s rights as long as we qualify him. Therefore if he goes to the KHL and wants to come back, he would have to sign with us. That actually works out well because if he plays well enough in the KHL to be an NHL player then we would have no problem giving him a one way contract.

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      You think we would offer a one way… I won’t be holding my breath, he is gone

      • Rafi Bomb

        No, if he comes back after playing in the KHL. Just like the Radulov situation with Nashville, he was an RFA, they qualified him he went to play in the KHL and when he wanted to come back to the NHL he had to sign with the Predators. Filatov is in that situation now and if Da Costa leaves, as long as we qualify him then we will retain his rights. Therefore if he plays a season or two in the KHL and then wants another shot in the NHL, he will have to play for the Sens.

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          Oh I understand that… But I am saying with 100% certainty that it will not happen

          • sprucesens

            I agree, there is about to be a huge vacant C hole, he’s done everything right, and we won’t even offer him a low dollar 1 way. If I’m him, I’m done with this org too

          • Frank

            Who cares? The guy is never going to be a top-6 NHLer and we don’t need a smallish 3rd or 4th line C

          • peetypuck

            Guys like Da Costa are expendable. It won’t be that difficult for Murray to find a third line centre.

    • jimmyjohnson

      I’m pretty sure he has to clear waivers though

  • Rafi Bomb

    The Hemsky offer was fair value, Murray had it about right at $3.33M per. Hemsky and his agent overvalue what he brings to the team. Fans who are complaining about the offer need to give their heads a shake; one dimensional skill guys who lack grit aren’t as valuable as they were a few years ago.

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      Let’s run out and sign every Neil and Smith we can find because they have grit… Its the be all end all.

      Forget scoring goals let’s just go 100% snapshot against everyone (given that would be slightly enjoyable ttoo)

      • sprucesens

        yeah, no way does hemsky deserve a 2 mill paycut. This is barely paying him more than greening, who barely deserves to be on the 4th line. And he has proven he can be top 6. oh well, best of luck hemsky when you get 5 mill on a contender and produce at top 6 level.

        • CaMo

          Using Greening as an example is sortof unfair. His contract at 3mil was given to him only because they needed to reach the cap floor that year. He got lucky and is way overpaid.

        • runningbear1974

          Let some other team pay him what he’s worth… He’s not worth it to the team… He’s a top 6 guy who doesn’t like to shoot the puck…

      • Rafi Bomb

        You simply don’t get it. This went right over your head. One dimensional players (in all their capacities) aren’t as valuable anymore. They are quickly becoming obsolete as elite teams have players that are well rounded and multi dimensional. Therefore pure enforcers, pure penalty killers, pure skill guys and the like will quickly all become extinct as each player will need to have multi facets in order to compete. At this point one dimensional players are specialists and serve their purpose in some capacity. A team that needs a bit more offense will seek out a guy like Hemsky because he still serves a purpose in this league albeit more limited then it has been in the past.

        You make the assumption that a gritty player also has to be a 4th liner, but what about players like Toews, Richards, Brown, Kopitar, Williams, Sharp, Kuntiz, Carter, Getzlaf, Perry, Backes, Oshie, Lucic, Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand? There are many players across the league that are gritty but they can also play. Look at the way the Kings are built, their whole roster is pretty much big gritty players who are well rounded. In order to improve our grit we my need bottom sixers who are overtly physical, but our primary need is top sixers who play with an edge.

        • Pasky

          I agree you can’t have a team full of one dimensional players but having 1 or 2 of those one dimensional gamebreaker type of players is a necessity. You mention the Kings to prove your point but who led them in goals during their Cup Run? Gaborik. And you can’t tell me he has a well rounded game.

          If you don’t have that 1 player that can go out and score a goal at will, even if he doesn’t play the best defensive game, then you get the St-Louis Blues, who BTW got bounced in the 1st round and are now the big chaser for Spezza. Hardly a well rounded player.

          • Rafi Bomb

            Gaborik is a specialist as he is almost completely a pure finesse guy but as I stated earlier, those types of player still have their roles but in a limited capacity. Therefore a team that is deep and incredibly well rounded will get the most out of those types of players and be able to insulate their deficiencies.

            The Senators aren’t that well rounded or deep so players like Hemsky and Spezza aren’t as useful to us as their flaws are more prevalent.

          • Pasky

            Agree but those players don’t just grow on trees. When the Sens do become well rounded who’s to say a player of Spezza’s caliber will be available? In fact, how often has a career ppg player been traded at all. We’re not well rounded yet but we can’t just get rid of them in the mean time.

          • Rafi Bomb

            Well you trade players like that to build for the future. As long as we acquire a few good young players we will end up well in the long run.

          • peetypuck

            Hemsky is not a goal scorer so what’s your point? We have Peumpel in the AHL. He’s a sniper.

        • Tooks

          Our Primary need is players who can skate and score.

          • CaMo

            They also need to be able to put on all their equipment by themselves without help.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Not true.

      • Tooks

        LMAO!

    • CaMo

      He’ll get his money elsewhere and that’s fine, just gunna be another overpayed skilled player. In a few years time that contact will have that team handcuffed because Hemsky may under perform. And murray isn’t dumb enough to put himself in that position.

      • Rafi Bomb

        Exactly, just because someone will pay him that doesn’t mean that is what he is worth. We can’t afford to through ridiculous contracts at pure finesse players.

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          Ummmmm actually that is exactly what it means

          • CaMo

            Garth Snow … is that you?

          • peetypuck

            Good one.

          • Rafi Bomb

            No it doesn’t lol. Just because someone is dumb enough to overpay for something that doesn’t mean that is what it is really worth.

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          I do agree with people saying 5-6 MIL I’d insane for hemsky… And considering where our team is, both with and without him paying him that much is even crazier, he isn’t the piece to put us a level up… But that does not negate the fact that the offer is an insult and embarrassment to the club

          • Rafi Bomb

            Murray needs to spend wisely and that is the highest he should have offered a player like Hesmky. But I do see your point in that if that is the type of offer he is going to make then it might be better off to not make an offer at all.

          • spezzerman

            the offer from the Sens makes sense to me. if you know you are not going to be willing/able to sign him to what it would take to keep him from hitting the open market, why would you offer him any more than the minimum amount you’d start a negotiation with? ITs not insulting, its just not showing your cards. IF he circles back to you, you have a starting point you’re comfortable with.

        • Aaron 2.0

          It’s kind of what it means though. Worth is a relative construct. It’s just a product of the market. A team may “over-pay”, in our minds, but that just reflects the price the market created for said player. That doesn’t mean I think we should compete to sign every Tom, Dick and Harry that makes it to market. And lots of GMs will lose when they pay big dollars for players (beause they don’t end up performing).

          Hemsky we’ll get payed. It’ll be a lot more than 3 million. Based on what player make today, he deserves a lot more than 3 million. Hard to speculate where the market will cap out on Hemsky, given his injury history. I get maybe not targeting this player because of these concerns. But, then, why bother trading for him if management is that worried?

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Whoa someone else who understands basic economics!

          • runningbear1974

            Why is 20 goals worth a lot more than 3 million?

          • jimmyjohnson

            Because less than 1/3 of your team will score 20 goals and the cap is going to be over $70 from now on.

            If your team scores 220 goals a year, that players accounts for 1/11 of your goals output.

            Take your goalies out of the cap (let’s say 10%, so $7M) and you’ve got $63M to spend on skaters.

            1/11 is equal to 9.1%

            9.1% of $63M is $5.7M

            Scoring isn’t everything, so you multiply that number again by 0.75 and you get $4.3M, which is the average cap hit in today’s NHL for mid level offensive players. It’s also on the low side for anyone that goes to UFA.

          • Rafi Bomb

            Seeing as your proposed concept of valuing a player is based off the individual player’s goal production relative to the aggregate goal production of the group, wouldn’t you also deem it necessary to include variables for total production as well as +/-?

            Essentially instead of valuing a player simply based off their offensive production, they would be valued based on the total points they produced that had a direct impact on the team winning games. So instead of buying “goals” you would be buying “wins”.

            Therefore by factoring in goals for and against, we can increase a players value by having a positive GF/GA ratio and decrease a players value by having a negative GF/GA ratio.

            Even then, it still isn’t perfect because it doesn’t address more latent variables that influence production shut as hits, blocked shots, proper defensive coverage, forced turnovers among others.

            Finally Hemsky has only scored greater than 20 goals twice in his career, therefore if we are using your valuation it would be more accurate to use his average goals scored over his career.

          • jimmyjohnson

            It would be more appropriate to weight his current production greater than anything from his past.

            And yeah, I was simply going off of the comment above to create a very basic explanation for how a player’s goal scoring could be used to determine their value in a salary cap world.

            I wasn’t actually putting it forth as a legitimate way of determining value.

          • Rafi Bomb

            Fair enough. I would be curious to see what kind of metrics are utilized by NHL teams to assess a players appropriate valuation. I wonder if they base it off of a heuristic or a complex set of metrics?

    • Tooks

      Hemsky offer was not fair market value, lol.

      • CaMo

        Lol it was worth a try. It doesn’t mean we won’t spend 4.5mil on the right player in that market.

      • Rafi Bomb

        Ya it is. You are overvaluing one dimensional finesse players. At most he is worth $4M per.

        • CaMo

          In Hemsky and Tooks defence, I actually don’t think Hemsky’s defensive game is bad at all though. I clearly remember him always getting back into good defensive position using his speed.

          • Zelle

            Yes he actually wasn’t bad defensively.

        • whammer44

          I think you are under valuing and contradict that by saying he’s worth at most $4M/yr. Thats $2.1M over 3 years…pretty significant difference.

    • A-Train

      He can and will get more elsewhere. The “market” for hockey players isn’t like the market for barrels of oil. There’s no set price. Players are worth more or less to individual teams, depending on myriad factors specific to each team.

      A player like Hemsky (productive but aging, able to command a veteran premium) is worth less to the Ottawa Senators (relatively young and rebuilding, with core players who will need to be resigned to be held into their prime years).

      • Rafi Bomb

        So how do your factor in the variable of the resulting contract being poor?

        If player “x” is worth what the market will bear, then no one should complain about any contract being poor as the contract is simply a reflection of a players worth. The issue we (including fans, media and management) are very aware of poor contracts in which case there is a disparity between the players actually value and the value at which they are priced/being compensated. By the above logic, a player like David Clarkson is actually worth greater than $5,250,000 because there were multiple teams who were willing to pay him greater than that.

        • peetypuck

          In a highly competitive marketplace like the NHL I think value/worth becomes subjective. Just because a team is willing to pay a player X amount does not necessarily mean he his worth it.
          In the case of Clarkson he turned down more money to play for the Laffs. So did he feel his value there was not the same as somewhere else?

  • sprucesens

    I’m really confused now. We don’t want to pay legit players their going rate. we also don’t want to pay young players who have done everything asked of them, especially when we will have a big vacant C position very shortly. I do not understand this team right now. Its getting hard to be a fan when you see no effort to create a winning atmosphere. Not saying da costa is some amazing player or something, but you had to think he was in the plans. Good for him though. Hope he excels and proves that he should have been given a 1 way, and never comes back, just to stick it to melnyk. Pessimist in me? Maybe, but maybe after enough players push back, maybe he gets the hint

  • iKarly65

    Anyone confused by Murray’s contradicting statements?

    Says Michalek is the only UFA he would like to keep. This after he already (allegedly) offered Hemsky a deal, and now he’s apparently offered yet again another deal to Hemsky (an insulting one to boot).

    IMO, it’s not that Michalek is the only UFA OTT wants to keep, but that Michalek is the only one willing to listen to offers to return.

  • CaMo

    In other news , our team at the Rookie tournament in London this year should be fairly stacked.

    • Tooks

      We won it last year, apparently our rookies we’re rdy for breakout seasons in the NHL…sigh…

      • CaMo

        Anytime we beat the leafs in anything, I’ll be happy.

  • Rafi Bomb

    Apparently Mckenzie is reporting that we are looking to trade Hemsky for a pick.

    Someone on twitter stated that Colorado and Calgary were interested but I don’t know if they have any credibility.

    • FistsofNeil25

      It would make sense to deal his rights for a late pick. Helps make up for trading a 3rd and a 5th for 20 games of the guy

      • Rafi Bomb

        With the lack of quality and depth in this draft maybe we could get a mid 2nd rounder.

        • Frank

          No one will trade a 2nd round pick for the rights to a UFA like Hemsky. It will be a 4th or 5th at best

          • Tooks

            ^this^

        • FistsofNeil25

          That’s reaching for the sky. Dan Boyle’s rights were traded for a conditional 5th rounder and Halak’s were traded for a 4th.

          • Rafi Bomb

            I guess it will depend on whether a team with multiple picks in the mid to later rounds covets him.

            The Flames are apparently interested and they have two 2nds and two 3rds.

  • Hax

    By making an offer to Hemsky and making terms public, Murray is essentially telling the other GMs what they’d need to offer Hemsky and thereby perhaps some teams will consider trading a pick for his rights. Basically: “Hey GMs – Hemsky wants significantly more than what we offered. If that’s something you’d like to consider then make me an offer for his rights.”

    • Rafi Bomb

      I agree with this. Murray has been a round the league for a long time, most of his efforts are likely calculated and with some kind of strategy in mind. I could still see him packaging Spezza and Hemsky.

    • Tooks

      Yeah and the offer will be very low, lol. Murray has no power here.

      • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

        Anything is better than pulling another Conacher though.

        • Tooks

          True I guess, that 5th round pick could turn out to be a gem.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            And just imagine if he is… When he is done with his entry level contract we can trade him too!!!!

          • Tooks

            *salivates*

  • Rafi Bomb

    “Bob McKenzie
    @TSNBobMcKenzie
    I don’t think it’s very far down road, if at all, but my sense is WPG much more open to considering trade for any player, incl Evander Kane.”

    Murray should be targeting players like Kane, Byfuglien, Bogosian and Ladd. We have the assets to acquire one or two of those players.

    • FistsofNeil25

      Do we? Not without giving up some of our young core.

      • Rafi Bomb

        It depends on the cost. We have a lot of prospects that have decent upside that some teams might covet, then we have some depth players like Gryba, Hoffman and Wiericioch that some teams might feel can play a bigger role for them. Maybe they have interest in Anderson as well.

        I wouldn’t necessarily go out of our way to gut our team to acquire them, but I would certainly be inquiring and gauging what kind of offers we could make.

        • FistsofNeil25

          The cost would be high. Winnipeg needs to start heading up the standings and show their fans some results. They aren’t going to trade their best players for prospects and depth players.

          We couldn’t acquire any of those names without making players like Turris, Ryan, Zibanejad, Ceci, Lehher and Lazar available.

          • Tooks

            ^this^

            Rafi Bomb, this aint NHL 14, brah.

    • Tooks

      This would show committment to winning! Unfortunately we are not in that business. (of winning)

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      I wish… Not going to happen though we would be giving up cheap contracts to take on expensive ones

      • Rafi Bomb

        The contracts aren’t too expensive:

        Evander Kane has 5 years remaining at a $5,250,000 cap hit. Although his salary is at $6,000,000 per.

        Dustin Byfgulien has 2 years remaining at a $5,200,000 cap hit. His salary is $5,750,000 next season and $6,000,000 the season after.

        Andrew Ladd has 2 years remaining at $4,400,000 cap hit. His actual salary is $4,500,000 per.

        Zach Bogosian has 6 years remaining at $5,142, 857 cap hit. His actual salary is $4,000,000, then 2 years at $5,250,000, then $5,500,000 then 2 years at $6,000,000

        It seems like a lot but we are losing Spezza, Michalek and Hemsky so we have cap space. Then if we make a trade, we would likely be sending some salary back and finally we need to bring in some big contracts just to get to the cap floor.

      • A-Train

        I think it’s very possible the team would want to take on Evander Kane and his contract. Not wanting to spend 6M+ on guys who are 30-40 years old is one thing.

        I think the bigger problem is more that we don’t have the assets to send back in a deal for Kane. If he’s on the market the suitors with grade A prospects and top 10 picks will come calling.

    • Andrews theory

      I think Ladd or Bogosian would be the 2 I’d focus on.
      I like Kane but I dont think we have the right personalities in the locker room to deal with him at this point. Buf is awesome to watch but I dont think he helps make us a winner at this point.

  • A-Train

    I hope nobody’s lamenting the departure of DaCosta. We got him for nothing, gave him several shots to make it in the NHL — including a shot at the starting lineup over arguably our best prospect — and he couldn’t put it all together.

    Pretty happy the organization had the good sense not to throw a one way deal at this guy.

    • xN1Cx

      Must say he looked very good in his call up this past season though. But agree with your points. That spot will go to someone else.

    • Senatollah

      Yup. We as fan sometimes get a little bit too invested in our players. The DaCosta’s, Gryba’s, O’brians, etc. are all fringe NHLers. Can they play in the NHL? Yes. Should they? If there is a space available, sure but really once they have played a few years and are over the NHL minimum salary there is always someone younger, cheaper and most importantly equal or better skill wise to replace them.

    • whammer44

      Agreed.
      WIth all the salary leaving town they can definnitely upgrade with another established Centre to fill one of the top 3 spots.

    • Zelle

      Could also be another hint that Murray wants Lazar in this year.

      Down the middle: Turris – Zbad – Pageau / Smith – Lazar

  • spezzerman

    Chirp, based on anything you know or however you feel, where do you put the odds of Ryan re-signing this summer?

  • Dirk-Diggler

    Someone posted this comment a few days ago..

    “This team needs some good news”

    • spezzerman

      ha! That was me and I stand by that ;)

    • CaMo

      If we don’t get some soon this comment section will turn into an even bigger blood bath.

  • Phil.

    Wasn’t the fact that DaCosta was considering going to the KHL floated a while back. I would assume that if other teams were interested they would have called Murray and asked if he was available then.
    The absence of a trade suggests that the other teams didn’t really want to offer him a one way contract with sufficient $$ either.
    We lost him for “nothing” because other teams didn’t want to give up something for him.

  • Eric

    “Pretty confident in saying Ottawa has no interest in taking on a bad contract in this deal.” Really?? — #Cheechoo

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      Ummmmm what does that have to do with THIS deal?

  • Andrews theory

    After much thought, it’s be lobbied about a few times recently but we may very well see Hemsky’s rights as part of a Jason Spezza package. It automatically gives a team 2/3rds of a top line.
    The two teams and scenarios that i’d like to see play out are:
    1) Trade with Dallas (mentioned this the other day)
    Centered around Chiasson, high end prospect, 1st 2014 (14th overall) (5th 2015, becomes a 3rd if Hemsky signs)
    2) Trade with Nashville
    Centered around Colin Wilson and Filip Forsberg, (5th 2015, becomes 3rd if Hemsky signs)
    Nashville needs to start competing asap with Webber on the books.

  • A-Train

    Here’s another perspective on the “no commitment to winning” narrative:

    I’m not surprised that at some point both Alfredsson and Spezza talked to Murray/Melnyk and asked about bringing in high-priced talent or swinging deals for big time veterans.

    And it wouldn’t shock me that the answer back would be: “We’re building a young core right now of guys we think will be here a long time, guys we want to resign when they hit RFA status. And we’re not a cap team. If you want to be here when it all comes together, great. But it’s going to take a year or two.”

    I’m not here to spin for Murray or Melnyk, but to look at what’s happened and say they’re not prepared to do what it takes to win because they didn’t open up the vault for Ales Hemsky??

    That’s simplistic.

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      It isn’t just hemsky

      • A-Train

        Just using that because it’s the topic du jour. I’m not denying the team is on a budget. Just challenging the notion that it’s being dramatically dismantled from a contender into mediocrity because ownership and management are cheap and aren’t committed to winning.

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          I kinda see where you’re coming from(and held this opinion until recently).. Guess I’ve just hit the tipping point where I no longer buy it.

    • Phil.

      I agree. The Alfie extravaganza happened 2 years after the rebuild was announced. I can sympathize with Alfie for wanting to play his last years on a more competitive team, but asking your owner to massively increase spending 2 years in a rebuild is unrealistic. Assuming that’s what Alfie asked for.
      Same with Spezza, although after 3 years the question merits an better answer than after 2. Saying the kids are improving is not an unacceptable one.

    • jimmyjohnson

      I’ve been saying this the whole time.

      • SensChirp

        You’ve been saying a lot of things, jimmy.

        • jimmyjohnson

          What have I said that contradicts anything in A-Trains post?

          • SensChirp

            To be honest, I’m having a hard time keeping up with you and runningbear today.

            A-Train’s post would make sense had they not said and done things that suggest otherwise. There is no master plan here. The plan was a three year rebuild and then start adding pieces to contend. They were on track. Two consecutive playoff appearances, won a round, had a franchise player that was desperate for one more chance at a Cup…

            Instead they’ve hit the reset button on the rebuild because the money isn’t there and in the process, created a situation that will make players think twice about coming to Ottawa.

          • runningbear1974

            Not exactly… We had a rebuild plan… Then the Alfie thing last year… That wasn’t planned… Then Spezza this year, that wasn’t planned either… We were following a plan, then our leaders decided to do something different… So, now we have to re-plan… No one hit the reset button… Alfie, and Spezza both made decisions that weren’t good for this team…

          • Doc

            So they are to blame?

            Interesting…

          • runningbear1974

            Yes i blame Alfie and Spezza…If they would have cooperated, we would have had a much better team this year… And next year… But, instead we’re doing a 2nd rebuild…
            But, for the better i think… We need to get some real leaders into this organization….

          • Doc

            Wow.

            You are really blaming Alfie and Spezza for the team’s financial situation? How does that even remotely make sense to you?

            What a backward way of thinking.

          • runningbear1974

            No, i blame Alfie and Spezza for the team not being as good as they should be at this point in the rebuild… And because of that, we need to do another mini rebuild, that should last 2 years or so… Until Puemple and Lazar join the team…

          • Doc

            But you’re contradicting yourself now.

            They left (or will leave) by their own decision, yes. But ask yourself, why did they want to leave in the first place?

            For anyone to put blame on these players leaving (for very good reasons) is really….surprising.

          • runningbear1974

            That is my explanation for why 1) The team currently isn’t as good as it could have been, and 2) Why we had to keep re-planning and now we’re in a rebuild again…. Which wasn’t planned 3 years ago….
            If i ask myself why they left, i think because neither player believes in the organization… But, one point they forget to consider, they were an important part of the organization for the last 10 years… Not believing in the organization equates a bit to them not believing in themselves (they truly believe we need more expensive talent on this team)
            I’m not blaming them for leaving… Do what you want… I’m blaming the team not being as good as it could have been because of them….

          • Doc

            I think you’re blaming the wrong people.

          • runningbear1974

            But… I didn’t want those guys on team… I’m happy things are happening like this… If we would have done well this year we would have re-signed Spezza…
            I was giving an explanation about the latest decisions made by management…
            I can’t emphasize enough how much i’m tired of the old sens… I’m fucking sick of them (they weren’t even that great in their prime)… I’m ready for the next generation… I want to cheer for a new bunch of guys… That’s my take… Next, lets get rid of Neil and Phillips….
            I’m happy management is getting rid of players i don’t want, and i hope they sign the players i do want… I don’t want Spezza… I don’t want Alfie… I don’t want Hemsky….

          • Doc

            Ah, that’s another thing though. Wanted them to leave for the reasons you specified is not the same as blaming them for leaving for valid (personal) reasons.

            I don’t agree with your point of view, but at least I know where you stand.

          • runningbear1974

            Oh yeah, i know most fans don’t agree… I’m super excited about what this team is turning into… I’m really excited about Zibanejad and Turris…

          • Doc

            Hey look at that! Something we agree on!

            Zibby’s gonna be good. He’s already a possession wizard at 20. Love the kid.

          • peetypuck

            I won’t shed any tears with Spezza and Hemsky leaving. I won’t complain if we draft in the top ten next year. It’s time for a new generation of Senators to take over.

          • Sandy

            But the key is to keep Karlsson & Ryan until the next wave can make the team a contender again.

          • peetypuck

            I hope so. If Ryan refuses to re-sign we’ll have to start rebuilding all over again.

          • SensChirp

            Well ya, that’s sort of true. Those players did make decisions. But you have to ask why.

            I’ve just never understood when we were supposed to contend in this rebuild. Everyone bought the rebuild message without asking, ok so when do we make a run?

            And then as recently as the week before the deadline THIS season, Murray and Melnyk came out and said that was happening now. That in the next couple years they would be trying to contend to get Murray a Cup.

            And then budget and spending wisely became the words of the day again. It’s just all such complete and utter bullshit and I can’t believe anybody is still buying.

            Yes they have good young players. Yes they have a bunch of guys that will need new contracts soon. But neither of those things explains the steady stream of BS that has been fed to fans lately.

          • runningbear1974

            I don’t see it as bad as you seem to… Alfie was a shock to the organization…. It hurt bad… We had to regroup… Re-plan… We got Ryan to play with Spezza…. Sweet… But, that didn’t work… turns out Spezza is really hard to play with… Then to realize, you can’t win with Spezza, too much effort is required… He is 1-dimensional… So, we had to regroup again…
            The mistake was believing in Spezza and Alfie…
            Had they played as hoped, we could have been a contender this year, we would easily be as good as the New York Rangers… Last year’s team with Alfie would have been as good as the Rangers…
            Spending wisely is a good way to get rid of Spezza, and Michalek…

          • Sandy

            Had Spezza & Alfie left with Fisher/Kelly the return the Sens would have gotten for both of them would have gone a long way to the future of the team.
            Alfie left and nothing came back. Spezza is leaving and the return will be less than what it would have been 3 years ago.
            These two players hurt the team by staying and then sulking out of town.

          • spezzerman

            we were never supposed to contend in this rebuild. This upcoming season is supposed to be when we start adding those pieces, according to your timeline. Is Hemsky enough evidence to suggest we are throwing it all out the window and starting over? Not for me, but if Ryan wont sign here, or Mac…

          • jimmyjohnson

            Well, that’s kind of reasonable. The Alfie situation is not ideal but anyone looking at the team objectively last year knew full well that without marked improvement from the very young D-corps and some still great performance from the goalies, we were going to struggle this year. I personally didn’t think they would struggle as much or as long, but I hardly thought they would win the president’s trophy or even the division. I thought they would challenge and fall short, landing anywhere from 4-6 in the conference, not the division.

            Alfie leaving changed everything though. They had to adjust to the new prospects for the team and part of that is not spending. The overarching point of what I was saying is that the cap dollars they have now are an illusion. When it comes time to retain their young core, they will need that money.

          • Senatollah

            Can make that same argument for most teams over the past 10 years at one time or another. Its Ottawas time in the cycle. It sucks because the Owner seems to be (probably is) interfering. If he said nothing and let the team run it wouldn’t be so bad.

            The playoffs two years ago, and winning the first round was a gift of the NHL lockout. Longer season team probably doesn’t make it.

          • spezzerman

            according to your timeline this coming season is the first year after the three year plan. have we really hit reset yet? If we trade Ryan for draft picks then I completely agree but I think we need to wait at least till July to see what the teams next step is, no?

    • peetypuck

      I remember three years ago that Murray offered Spezza the chance to be traded because they were rebuilding. Spezza turned him down then. Maybe he thought after three years the team would be a contender.
      What nobody has mentioned is he was a big reason the team missed the playoffs this year. He’s supposed to be the #1 guy and the team leader.

      • jimmyjohnson

        Spezza was fantastic at the end of the season. He’ll be unfairly criticized for this season based on the fact that he struggled for the first half and also that the team he was leading couldn’t clinch from the outside looking in.

        I find it interesting that no one ever mentions Methot struggling at the start of the year or even bothers to bring up Anderson’s early season/Lehner’s mid season implosion or the D-corps that regressed almost across the board.

        It wasn’t a good year and Spezza struggled for a good portion of it, but he’s hardly to blame for the team missing the playoffs.

        • peetypuck

          That might hold water except for the fact that the team went two rounds in the playoffs without Spezza the year before. See what I’m saying?

      • Tooks

        Haha we didnt miss the playoffs because of Spezza , thats funny…

        • peetypuck

          But we did make the playoffs and went two rounds the year before without Spezza. Ha ha ha.

          • FistsofNeil25

            How many years did we make the playoffs in Spezza’s career here? I don’t even like Spezza much but some of you guys say the craziest things.

          • peetypuck

            Are you comparing Spezza’s play this year to his earlier years?

          • FistsofNeil25

            You were the one comparing this years team with Spezza to last years to without him.

  • Sandy

    Murray should have offered Hemsky a 3 yr deal @12M. That, at least would have been reasonable and ‘looked’ better to the public.
    700K extra a season for 3 yrs. I’m sure Melnyk could afford an extra 700K out of the 40M he is getting in new TV revenue?
    Boro has a 1 way contract for next season and there is no room for him. DaCosta could have played on the team next season but they won’t give him a one-way contract.
    Alfie left for the same reason Spezza is leaving.
    The issue with the budget isn’t one thing only. It’s been a bunch of stuff that is cumulating.
    If Ryan signs, then I’m sorta okay with what has happened.
    If he doesn’t want to stay because of the same reason as Alfie & Spezza, then I’m so not okay with that.
    The one big issue this team will have this season, is getting to the cap floor. I have no idea how in the hell they will do that..

    • whammer44

      The offer to Hemsky really showed they were not that interested in him.

      The room for Boro will be made when the off season trades are made.

      Alfie would have signed if the Sens offered him what he felt he deserved. Spezza’s departure is more about the team’s commitment to winning, but lets be honest, if Murray wanted to continue to build the team around Spezza he would have found a way to make Jason happy. Imo the Sens are happy Spezza wants out so they don’t have to be the “bad guys”.

      Cap floor can easily be reached through a couple of trades and free agency signings.

      • Sandy

        But what free agents are going to want to come to Ottawa. Ville Leino?

    • peetypuck

      Sandy, I just checked his career stats. Drafted the same year as Spezza…but has only scored 146 goals in the NHL. That’s an average of appx 12 goals a year.

      • Tooks

        Yes, playing on a team like EDM, maybe on a better team he lights it up, we’ll see soon enough.

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          Stop with the logic

          • peetypuck

            Do facts scare you?

        • Rafi Bomb

          It must suck for him playing with bums like Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins, Hall and Yakupov.

          His best bet is to go a team with an elite first line centre that lacks wingers. He might be a good fit in Pittsburgh but they want to get grittier and tougher so I am not sure if they would target him.

          He might actually be best suited in Colorado as they play with a lot of speed and move the puck quickly, but I don’t know if he would want to go to another young team after spending his career in Edmonton.

      • Sandy

        Okay, didn’t know that..

      • Rafi Bomb

        Yeah it is surprising how little he produced. I was under the impression that he scored 20+ every season but it turns out he has only done that twice in his whole career.

  • Mitchell

    I think Da Costa is a good hockey paler and hopefully it bites me in the ass for his sake but I can’t see him in a top 9 role, maybe with some size. He for now is a great AHL player with top line talent in that league were he can provide offense but in the nhl and maybe getting 4th line minutes he’d need to be more defensive.

    • JayRuN

      I agree with you. Never really seen how da costa was gonna fit in with ottawa. I also think it was bullshit how he made the big team over z-bad.

    • runningbear1974

      I was hoping we would play him on the 4th line… The way Montreal played Briere on their 4th line… If he’s disciplined enough to do the defense…. He could be quite effective in that role…

      • Sandy

        I would have liked to see Briere play against the Kings in the Cup final. I think he would not have been very effective.
        Actually most of their team would have been dominated by the bigger and more skilled Kings.

        • runningbear1974

          He would need big wingers no matter what, or he won’t survive out there…

  • Spoons

    The Great Exodus continues. It started with Alfie last year, Spezza this year, Ryan next year. Then we have some other players in between like Hemsky, DaCosta…All players who DON’T want to play in Ottawa. The Hemsky offer was a joke, quite insulting to Hemsky IMO……

    • peetypuck

      His career average in the NHL is about 12 goals a year. That’s Zack Smith and Chris Neil territory.

      • Tooks

        Put Zach Smith and Neil in EDM and I bet they finish under 5 goals combined…

  • Richard Gough

    This is a clear sign that Murray wants A new franchise player to build around. So I ask you if he is planning too go after Conner McDavid would that be a bad thing for Sens ?

    May be this is what this team needs to turn the conner ?

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      Problem is… I don’t think we are THAT bad… Although come the start of the season who knows

      • Andrews theory

        ya i dont think we are a lottery pick either. I think we are a 7th -11th team

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          Yeah roughly the same area I’m guessing.

          I mean it could change if they decide that they only want picks back for Spezza.

        • Tooks

          We have 3 top 6 players and 2 top 4 D’s, how are we not that bad?!?!

          • Andrews theory

            well that’s assuming we aren’t adding any peices which makes 0 sense unless we get Garth Snow on the phone with 3 first rounders.

            also, lets be honest Spezza and MM were a turn style for teams going down to our end for a goal all season. offense will suffer but our defense in theory should actually improve.

          • peetypuck

            Are you hinting that we are a better team without Spezz, Hemsky and MM9?

          • jimmyjohnson

            I think the lockout year adds some credibility to that idea.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I maintain that Michalek-Phillips on the left side was the most detrimental tandem for our success last season. Having Spezza and Karlsson in as support wasn’t exactly ideal either.

        • peetypuck

          Our draft pick this year is 10th. So you must think that letting Spezza, Hemsky and Michalek go won’t change our status next season. In other words, Murray was wasting his budget on those three.

    • Doc

      You can’t tank on purpose anymore. It’s an old concept that’s been disproved.

      Even if the Michalek-Spezza-Hemsky line leaves, that still wouldn’t make us bottom of the league.

      And even if it did, you’d have to win the lottery on top of that.

      • spezzerman

        that and not even having both Crosby and Malkin can get you very far. “tanking” is pointless.

      • Andrews theory

        pretty sure thats what bufalo just did

        • Doc

          That was a combination of things, on top of bad luck.

          • Andrews theory

            cmon now…
            they shipped out, Vanek, Pomminville, Miller etc.

          • CaMo

            You gotta rebuild somehow.

          • Doc

            So? Did they get the first overall?

          • jimmyjohnson

            I can’t believe you can post things like this and then think your opinion has value.

            Least of all the sheer magnitude of value that you assign to your own beliefs.

            It’s astonishing, really.

          • Doc

            Wait, what? lol

            Are you saying that tanking is possible nowadays? Or that Buffalo did get the first? Or are you just still mad that you got called out earlier today?

            :(

          • jimmyjohnson

            You continually present an opinion with absolutely no proof to back it up? You got called out, kid. Not the other way around.

            And you can’t possibly be that stupid that you don’t get the inference in what I said.

          • Doc

            Hahaha you ARE mad! This is gold. LOL.

            Ok let’s play, little one:

            What opinion are you referring to now? It would help to know what you are complaining about before moving forward. The opinion that tanking is a silly concept?

            You didn’t call out anyone. You got put in your place for your idiotic statements. That’s it. It would also help if you wouldn’t use the same insult as I did. Makes you look weak and only solidifies my point.

            And lastly, you’re just trying to start something because you got your feelings hurts earlier.

            Want to hug it out? :(

          • jimmyjohnson

            You actually believe this crap?

            You really are delusional.

            And I’m really not mad…at all.

            You know exactly what I mean, too. Your opinions on Melnyk’s finances were a clever game, but you lost and now you think this misrepresentation fools anyone? You’re blatant kid.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Did you forget your meds today?

          • jimmyjohnson

            He’s trolling and you don’t see it? Or troll with him?

            Which one?

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            You just admitted above you are playing devils advocate… So nice try

            Admit it you’re bored… I’m assuming school will be out soon though so hopefully mommy and daddy limit your Internet usage

          • jimmyjohnson

            Playing devil’s advocate on Lehner’s potential to be the unquestioned starter next year when he struggled mightily (FACT) in the second half last season.

          • Doc

            Nothing to do with our horrible team defense of course!

          • jimmyjohnson

            He wasn’t playing well. He was swimming around in his crease. His engagement was also questionable. He looked more lost in standard situations than at any point in his career in Ottawa.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Holy shit man join a talent show… I’ve never seen someone back peddle so hard!

          • jimmyjohnson

            What?

            How is anything there back peddling?

          • Doc

            Hello my baby, Hello my honey, Hello my ragtime gaaaaal.

          • jimmyjohnson

            You actually seem like the one who’s dancing, to me.

          • Doc

            I do have good moves.

            Care to dance?

          • jimmyjohnson

            I’m a big guy, champ.

            And I’m well trained.

            Be careful what you wish for.

            But no, I don’t care to dance.

          • Doc

            Bahahaha….lol…

            Now I DO wish we can dance!

            Pretty please?

          • jimmyjohnson

            If there’s a fight night, featuring professor power and whoever, then yeah sure. I’d be happy to oblige.

          • Doc

            Ah, that’s cute.

            How old are you, bud?

          • jimmyjohnson

            Older than Sens Chirp.

          • Doc

            I’m actually really surprised by that.

            I’m still laughing at your ‘well trained’ comment lol.

            So, what’s your favourite colour?

          • jimmyjohnson

            I’m a big fan of red. I could always handle red.

          • Doc

            It goes with your eyes, I’m sure!

            What’s your favourite brand of yogurt?

          • jimmyjohnson

            the kind that’s spelled right.

          • Doc

            You mean like this?

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogurt

            I peg you as a peach kind of guy.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I didn’t know peach was a brand.

            Well, you learn something new every day, don’t you…

          • Doc

            Oh, I see what you did there!

            You took my comment about the flavour peach and turned it in a joke about a brand!

            You’re a man of many (tricks) skills!

          • jimmyjohnson

            I would say the same, but I’m terribly honest.

          • Doc

            That’s true, I don’t do tricks.

            Like you’ve seen today, other people do them for me!

          • jimmyjohnson

            you are a clever bunch, aren’t you.

          • Doc

            Momma used to say I’m special.

          • jimmyjohnson
          • jimmyjohnson

            And yeah, “well trained” is a little ridiculous, minus the inflection I had on it.

          • Doc

            I just thought it meant that you sat on command.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I did actually! I never throw first. Trained by the best.

          • Doc

            Sit on command? Confused by your answer.

            What other tricks do you do?

          • jimmyjohnson

            well, fetch, for one. You throw first and I make sure to get it right back to you asap.

            I also know kneel and speak. I don’t usually lay down though.

          • Doc

            Do you prefer small or big sticks when you fetch?

            Do you kneel and speak at the same time, or are they two separate tricks?

            I really feel like we’re connecting today. Like, are we becoming best friends??

          • Rafi Bomb

            Why wouldn’t you throw first? Are you a counter puncher? Do you drop your left hand to bait them to throw a cross, bob to the side and throw a nasty left hook to the liver?

          • jimmyjohnson

            If you knew why, you wouldn’t ask why lol. And no, that’s not why.

          • Rafi Bomb

            I know a lot about fighting and there are only a handful of reasons not to throw first. The primary valid reason is that if you are an effective counter puncher (or striker if you are muay thai, or trained in another striking based martial art).

            The incorrect reason is to not throw the first strike from a legal standpoint. This is a misconception as many individuals falsely believe that they can claim self defense contingent on them being struck first. This simply isn’t the case as two parties can mutually agree to engage in an altercation an as a result they waive their right to claim violent behaviour as self defense. In this case any party who has essentially engaged to an altercation willingly is doing nothing other than putting their body at risk unnecessarily. In that case a willing combatant should always throw first unless they are a counter puncher/striker.

            Finally the only other primary reason to not throw first, is an unwillingness to fight and an attempt to resolve the conflict via communication. The risk of this is that you can in turn get struck first and your communication can potentially be construed as a willingness to engage in an organized altercation. Therefore as previously stated, there is the risk that in this course of action you can get struck and potentially injured first and that you may have also lost your legal protection to claim your actions as self defense.

          • jimmyjohnson

            First of all, I don’t throw the first punch moreso because I kind of like to get hit. It’s nice to feel that contact. There are very few people who actually try to fight me, though. There are even fewer who I won’t let hit me a few times.

            Second, when someone loses a fight, their perception on how it began can sometimes get a little cloudy. Just because they waive their right to claim assault, doesn’t mean an assault can’t take place. Your assertion on this matter is incorrect, and I am speaking from experience.

            Finally, fighting is pretty useless. Very little about fighting is worthwhile, beyond sparring for enjoyment and experimentation. Typically the fight seekers are the ones who wind up on the ground. They’re also usually the loudest ones in the fight.

          • Doc

            Seeing as how you kept saying that you’re well trained and big and all, wouldn’t that put you in the later category?

          • runningbear1974

            yes you have… you are a liar…

          • Doc

            I’ve been on every Sens board in the last decade.

            I’m not the odd man out here.

          • jimmyjohnson

            lol

            Sens boards/ NHL boards are where the great minds congregate.

            lol

          • Doc

            Clearly since you’re on board.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Only stupid people don’t see through you.

          • Doc

            You’re definitely a keeper! lol

            You’re the exact definition of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I’d ask you to look it up but we both know that is not your strong suit.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Right. Well, given that what you know of me are words on a page, you definitely have the insight to diagnose me. Did you learn these skills at your local community college? Or was it an online course?

          • Doc

            Common sense helps a lot.

            You should try it sometime.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I’m thinking you look something like this

            http://www.brandwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/brandwatch/troll.jpg

          • SensChirp

            Consider this a warning jimmy. Coooooool it.

          • Doc

            I’ll do the same, Chirp.

            Twas fun while it lasted.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Me cool it?

            Where are you earlier when he’s calling me a moron and swearing?

            I guess because he’s been here longer he owns the right to be belligerent and rude?

            This warning is a joke.

          • Doc

            *sigh*

          • FistsofNeil25

            Unless you two are planning on putting your names on the fight card at the Sens fanfest headlined by ProfessorPower and yours truly, then just play nice aight?

          • jimmyjohnson

            This guy started swearing and insulting me and telling me to go do research about god knows what, and now I apparently got put in my place and I’m the angry one.

            The deeply insecure are always incredibly tough to reason with. There will be no fight.

          • FistsofNeil25

            I was joking man lol

          • Doc

            So you kept arguing without knowing what we were arguing about? Really?

            This is pure gold.

          • jimmyjohnson

            You are provoking this incessantly and then laughing about it. But if I don’t respond, you assume victory.

            This is classic sociopathic behaviour.

            You are a problem child. Seek help.

          • Doc

            I’d do it! ;)

      • Richard Gough

        Choosing to not sign Michalek and Hemsky and trading Spezza doesn’t mean you are planning on tanking next season.

        I still want to see this team do well but there is a time that you need to cut the fat off this team and inject some new talent in the line up.

        • Doc

          Agreed, was merely pointing out that even if we lost our entire second line, there are no guarantees that we would bottom out.

          • Hax

            We can’t bottom out unless we trade BOTH goalies. Which of course won’t happen.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I think Lehner proved in the months of January, February, and March that we very much can bottom out if we only trade Anderson.

          • Doc

            Ah, selective criticism to prove an opinion. Classic.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Robin Lehner

            Career Record
            21-24-10

            Extrapolated over an 82 game schedule, that equates to
            31-36-15

            That would be good for 77 points and a top-10 pick.

            It should also be pointed out that I don’t hold the opinion that Lehner as the starter means we will miss the playoffs or outright tank.

            Ever heard of devil’s advocate? Or do you only know baseless innuendo?

          • Doc

            Wait, are you honestly trying to say that is career record is all on him, and no other factors? And that it can be used to determine future records, again without taking into accounts all other factors?

            Please continue. I’m loving this.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Devil’s advocate.

            You are dense as F***

          • Doc

            Oh the irony!

            Man, I’ll tell you this: You made my day a lot more fun, that’s for sure. Your views are quite entertaining.

            And I was being serious. Please continue.

          • sbs138

            but he won his last 5 starts. that means he’s ready for #1 duties…All-Star.

          • jimmyjohnson

            And yet oddly Spezza scores the winning goal in 3 of his last 5 games…career loser, bad captain, on the downside of his career.

          • Zelle

            Disagree on Lehner. If anything he proved he can be completely broken and then bounce back to be great again. Mental toughness, drive, competitive. He has talent and he’s a winner.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I agree, but like I said: devil’s advocate.

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      I am guessing barring something crazy happening we will pick anywhere from 9th-15th.

      Which in this draft will still be an unbelievable talent

    • Andrews theory

      i think i speak for post posters when i say, I’d support a full scale rebuild where everyone is on board with a lotter pick and allowing the youth to grow into their roles.
      that isnt the sense i get nor is the notion that has been put forward.
      Mediocrity is shit.

      • peetypuck

        I’ve been pushing the “conner” McDavid sweepstakes for a couple of weeks. A lot of people seem to want mediocrity though unless they think the team will just magically become contenders.

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          You have been no pushing any and all angles for a few weeks… I’m pretty certain there isn’t a situation that could happen where you couldn’t say

          called it

          Gotta love a long off season

          • peetypuck

            Yesterday’s paragraph on the Sedins was more humourous than serious. Come to think of it, they are much better players than Hemsky and far more dependable.
            Besides, there weren’t many people that were on the McDavid bandwagon so why go on flogging a dead horse every day?

        • Mr. Seller

          It’s not that people want mediocrity, it’s that you are talking about obtaining the 1st overall pick which would require that we be the worst team in the league (to increase our odds) or a lottery team which gives us only a slim chance at best. We don’t have a bad enough team to tank. I think you only contemplate that avenue if you are already a bottom feeder to begin the season or you find yourself there mid-way through a disappointing season. The McDavid sweepstakes as it stands now, is a non-starter.

  • whammer44

    Chicago eh?
    Lets take a run at Andrew Shaw and Teravainen…with Spezza being the key piece going to Chicago. Not sure what else would be needed to make it happen.

    • Doc

      By all accounts, they are grooming Teravainen to be their 2C in the near future, so my guess is he’s basically untouchable.

      They would go after Spezza as a stop-gap solution until Teravainen is ready.

      • whammer44

        I’m sure they are and you’re probably right as I think he’s the real deal, but they have a serious need for a 2C now and if they think they are serious cup contenders (which of course they are) they may be convinced that Spezza can fill that void.

        Their PP would be ridiculous.

        • Doc

          Indeed it would be.

          Not disregarding the notion that Spezza could be dealt to Chicago, I just don’t think Teravainen would be the piece coming back.

          Saad would be nice. ;)

          • whammer44

            Yep I’d be happy with Saad.

          • Doc

            Was joking a bit, he’s basically untouchable too.

            But one can dream!

    • Andrews theory

      I just dont see Spezza as a logical fit in Chicago. I think they’ll look for a solid two way guy. Kane doesnt need an elite center, he just needs a competant one.

  • sprucesens

    it is really depressing in here lately. If murray doesn’t get a good return for spezza, I recommend closing the website for a week or so, lol. Gonna be a lot of fights. This team does desperately need some good news. Its been bad news for a year straight, with no signs of letting up.

    • FistsofNeil25

      Close the site?! That’s crazy talk. Where would we all go to rant? SensChirp is going to get lots of hits in the next few weeks.

      • SensChirp

        Don’t be shy about clicking on those ads during your rants! My kid has gotta eat.

        • peetypuck

          The foodbank ?

        • FistsofNeil25

          Just for you Chirp I will. I won’t click the link for the Fitness Singles dating site though. I’m neither fit or single.

        • CaMo

          LMAO. Frank and Oak here I come…. for about 10 seconds.

          • FistsofNeil25

            lol I have Loan Doctor and Reliance Home Comfort

        • zippy

          Just clicked on Porter twice and Lightspeed.

          Click people click!!!

        • WaitingSince92

          Why on earth do I get an ad for Maple Leafs seasons tickets?!?!?

          • WaitingSince92

            kidding

          • Doc

            We are all thinking the same thing. :0

        • sprucesens

          I clicked on the cool lego looking guys with hockey sticks and so on. Already told the wife I want karlsson and turris if they are still around come winter time!

      • sprucesens

        very true. but it seems we are fighting more amongst ourselves now, than we are united against other teams and their fans. Its disheartening, lol. Only a couple weeks and we will have tons of stuff to argue about me thinks.

    • Zelle

      A good return for Spezza will be very fan dependent though lol

      • sprucesens

        yeah, I think right now, the rumored return from st. Louis actually will have the most upset fans. Berglund, rattie/jaskin and a 1st. I think there would be a lot of upset people, and a lot of people that are like “told you we wouldn’t get much” which really, is no better…because we didn’t get much. lol

    • WaitingSince92

      Does Lazar’s development qualify as good news? Maybe kinda? Sorry, I’m trying…

      • sprucesens

        yup it does, there are a few bright spots, for sure

  • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

    663 posts…this must be record pace for the off season eh Chirp?

    • Doc

      Doc doing research for work + slow news day for Sens + special posters = SUCCESS!

    • SensChirp

      Too many conversations going on today to keep up with!

      • runningbear1974

        No real conversation… Melnyk sucks… Alfie and Spezza rule… That’s the common theme here….

        • Doc

          No silly.

          Alfie and Spezza are to blame for the team’s current financial situation. Thought you knew that already.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Doc get it right

            #TheFansFault

            We after all aren’t buying as many tickets now

          • Doc

            Gahhh….sorry. It’s not getting through yet.

            TFF, TFF, TFF. I’ll get it soon!

          • runningbear1974

            Yeah you know what… It might be the fans fault… “In Spezza We Trust” … Fans buying Spezza jerseys… Melnyk thinking, what’s more important? winning or making money selling jerseys? You’re right, it is the fan’s fault….

          • runningbear1974

            Well, since we’re doing crazy talk… Alfie didn’t make himself a god, the sens fans made him a god…

          • zippy

            good point.

          • Doc

            That would actually be pretty cool if he did though.

            Would solidify the concept that he IS a god.

          • runningbear1974

            I predict, Lazar will make himself a god…

          • Doc

            Razal the Great.

          • peetypuck

            Isn’t that Razal the Taerg ?

  • my2sens

    It continues… when is the 3 year rebuilding done?

    • Rafi Bomb

      It depends on what you expect the rebuild to accomplish.

      Also we didn’t rebuild initially, we decided to retool. The risk of that approach is that you may simply be postponing the full rebuild.

      • Doc

        Exactly.

        We never went through a proper rebuild.

        • my2sens

          But are we ever?

          Doc – been a while – how’s you?

          • Doc

            Been good.

            Trying to stay away (for the most part) from various boards with all the nonsensical trade proposals, but today was a special day.

            Had a lot of research to do, so with the dual screen I managed to post a lot.

            Yourself?

    • Senatollah

      When Ryan and MacArthur resign for stability on the top line. If they don’t resign I think the Edmonton model of overpaid prospects is what? eight years of pain? If they sign, lets say no playoffs this year, make it next year, East contender in 3-5 years. optimism?

    • runningbear1974

      When Puemple and Lazar join the team… At that point we’ll have solid team… We’ll be able to make a move on a UFA… And, we’ll have the prospects behind them pushing for a spot…
      The very first step is to establish a good core of players…. Is it better to have Alfie and Spezza as our core players? Well, doesn’t matter now, because they won’t be…

      • WaitingSince92

        What makes you think we’ll be able to make a move on a UFA? What will have changed? Really, I’m not being facetious.

        • spezzerman

          we will know where the holes are that our prospects we have been drafting and developing cant fill. that is where UFA’s come in.

          • WaitingSince92

            I guess i meant financially

          • spezzerman

            All I can do is hope that the money will be there to spend when that time comes. Melnyk contradicts himself every time he speaks but he has said they will spend when the time is right. IMO, that time hasnt come yet. It has now, we have to keep Bobby Ryan and Mac to move forward next year, so if Bobby wants to stick around then so do I.

          • runningbear1974

            At this point, it’s not clear if you get better value for rookie or a UFA… But, later we’ll have a stronger sense of the team, and therefore better able to go for a UFA that we know will have improvement on the team…No point spending money if it’s not necessarily going to improve the team…

          • WaitingSince92

            Are we all taking Melnyk at his word that he will spend ‘when the time comes’? If you are, that’s fine, but I can’t do that.

        • runningbear1974

          At that point we’ll have the option for a UFA… Right now, if we go for a UFA then that means a prospect doesn’t get the ice time… It’s not necessarily a good thing to get a UFA at this point… Once we’ve established a core, a team… Then you go for a UFA to fill in a need… You don’t just grab random UFAs, you grad the ones that fit with what you need…

          • FistsofNeil25

            It’s not necessarily a good thing to have so many prospects playing in key positions of our line up. Ask Edmonton, NYI, Florida about how that worked out for them.

          • jimmyjohnson

            We have 3 times as many playoff rounds in the last 3 years as those 3 teams combined.

            All of those teams have been very bad for a very long time.

            I don’t think the comparison fits.

          • FistsofNeil25

            The comparison was made to show what happens when you throw a bunch of young guys into roles they aren’t yet ready for.

          • jimmyjohnson

            If they were doing that 2 years ago, yeah, I would agree. This year coming? I don’t agree. It doesn’t fit.

          • runningbear1974

            Right, but it’s unclear exactly what the right number of prospects is … Next year i think we have Stone and Hoffman coming in… That’s 2 players… That’s not too bad… The following year, maybe 2 more with Lazar and Pumple… Maybe that’s too much… But, we don’t really have a choice this year.. At least Stone and Hoffman are joining the team…
            We really need Karlsson, Methot, and our top line to step it up with respect to leadership… If they can act appropriately, the rest should fall into place…

          • FistsofNeil25

            It’s not about just who’s joining the team. It’s about asking our young guys to step up and fill roles that they have yet to prove they can play in at this level over the course of an 82 game season.

            Depending on what moves we make this summer, there’s a chance we’re promoting Turris, Zbad, Hoffy, Stone, two of Ceci, Cowen, Weircioch, Gryba, and possibly Pageau and Lazar into positions that they have yet to play in.

            That’s asking an awful lot from your youth. The good teams in this league seem to promote maybe 3 or 4 young players per season as most. There’s a good chance we’ll be promoting 7 or 8.

          • runningbear1974

            We don’t’ have too much of a choice…. Ceci and Pageau might get sent down… The rest are here to stay and learn… Most those guys going on 3rd year now…

          • FistsofNeil25

            And why don’t we have a choice?

          • runningbear1974

            Hoffman and Stone have earned a spot on the team… They’re an age where they can’t be sent down… We don’t have a choice because they are playing too good to be kept down… We should have brought them up last year…

          • FistsofNeil25

            Again it’s more than just Stone and Hoffman that are being promoted and expected to perform in bigger roles. It’s Turris, Zbad, Cowen Ceci etc

        • peetypuck

          The kid (RB1974) knows what he’s talking about. He has a good hockey mind.

          • FistsofNeil25

            I guess that gives him the foresight to know that we’ll be able to make a move for an UFA lol

  • Rafi Bomb

    Just to boost a bit of optimism around here. The last time we have such a large restructuring to the roster was in the 2010-2011 season. That year we ended up having 10 draft picks and these were the players we took:
    1st round: Mika Zibanejad, Stefan Noesen, Matt Puempel
    2nd round: Shane Prince
    3rd round: Traded for Nikita Filatov
    4th round: Jean Gabriel Pageau
    5th round: Fredrick Claesson
    6th round: Darren Kramer, Max Mccormick
    7th round: Ryan Dzingel

    At this point, every single player drafted has received an entry level contract and all players look to have promising upside and there is a very high probability that all become NHL players. Then be December 2011, Murray traded David Rundblad and a 2nd round pick in exchange for Kyle Turris. Then in February 2012 Murray trade another 2nd round pick for Ben Bishop.

    Seeing as we are going through another restructuring period, have a bit of confidence in Murray, Dorion and Lee to trade for the right young players and have a solid draft. It might get us a bit antsy now with all the moving parts but they did a decent job the last time they went through this process.

    • sprucesens

      yup, this is a good positive note. Just hopefully when those players do make the NHL, they aren’t playing with 4th line grinders, and used in such roles. They were drafted to be top 6 players, or hopefully decent top 4 D. So far, 1 out of 9 is an NHL regular, with a couple barely getting a chance. So hopefully we start to see some of these players graduate, and actually be given a shot, not with greening, condra, smith and neil as their linemates.

  • WaitingSince92

    Wow. I feel really, really bad for Murray. I wonder if he bought Melnyk’s line about having money available when it becomes time to spend, or if he knew that was something they were just telling fans.

    As someone who never even WANTED Hemsky to begin with, offering $10m for 3 years?!?! I guess Hemsky didn’t know that this is his ‘hometown’ and he’d be required to discount his contract.

    Really, I’d just like Melynk to be honest with us instead of trying to make everything palatable for the fans. Just come out and say, “That whole 3 year rebuild thing kinda fell apart. I need a couple more years to get my finances in order.”

  • Nikola Todorić

    I can’t believe that people argue against Chrip’s (and many other regular posters) point on being fed bullshit by management and Melnyk. Are you people slow?

    Get real and look at the facts.

    “Oh… I have my opinion and blah blah…” Well sorry… your opinion is idiotic. Sorry. Facts are facts.

    Mediocracy sucks… “Oh but it’s better than not having a team at all”. That’s a losers mentality. There is no reason this city, especially after almost 25 years of having an NHL franchise in the country that lives and breathes hockey should not be a contending team. Sure there are cycles, just like in all sports… winning and losing, but telling me the fan support is not there and that we cannot spend to the cap (or more than the cap floor) after an established fan base that has proven to continuously support this team when it is winning, AND WITH A NEW 40 MILLION DOLLAR TV CONTRACT is idiotic.

    “But Melnyk did spend to the cap…” well… news flash the cap back then was LESS than what the cap floor is now. So that isn’t a valid argument either in my mind.

    Smell the shitty roses people… the senators are doomed with eugene melnyk…

    • Doc

      I like the cut of your jib, sir.

      • jimmyjohnson

        You would…

        I can barely even read that piece…

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          Yes….and Doc is the one trolling.

          Clown

          • jimmyjohnson

            that’s trolling? That’s some level 1 trolling kid. You don’t know trolling. gtfo of here with that mug analysis.

    • zippy

      I think working with Melnyk takes some adjustment. He won’t spend unless he needs to. i.e. Sees its worth the investment.

      We have the best coach we’ve had since BM was coach. The Alfie pizza line days are over. But now we need something better than Heatley. Someone who plays D as well. I think this is Lazar and hopefully whatever we get for Spezza.

      • Nikola Todorić

        Optimism is good.

        An idiot owner is still an idiot owner though. Especially one that sticks his damn nose everywhere.

        • zippy

          True.

          Of course if he were to spend more on some 30 year olds to help the young guys grow..that would be helpful. Maybe Richards is an option.

          • Nikola Todorić

            Bro, I hate to be a dick, but nobody useful and who wants to win is an option. Players aren’t stupid, they want to win and they want to compete. You think players like Karlsson and Lehner…maybe Lazar is he pans out won’t want out when they hit their primes and they see we aren’t going to win shit?

            I actually like don’t mind trading Spezza, but only if it was for the right reasons (old, expensive, etc); which according to Chrip, Brad May and several others, is not the reason. It’s because the Ottawa Senators are not winners when the culture of the team is painted as a budget team that ‘just competes’.

          • SensChirp

            This is the biggest thing that I wish more people would realize. You don’t just get to save up your good players for 3-4 years while you wait for the right time to spend and make a run.
            Guys won’t want to be a part of that long term. Most players want to win and be competitive every season.

          • zippy

            Alright you guys have a point. (SC/Nikola)

            Cowen and Weircioch sucked last year. If Melnyk was serious at the time he would have spent to make Alfie happy. (kept his word), and he would have gone out and replaced PW with someone more substantial and left PW in the minors until we knew he cut it, or something to that effect.

            We had options….he didn’t spend.

            We had the option to sign Alfie and keep the second line intact with Spezz, and bring in two top 4 D.

            That would have completely changed our team.

            I guess we’ll never know if that team would have rocked or not

          • jimmyjohnson

            “bring in two top 4 D.”

            This is my biggest issue with this complaint/theory.

            Where were they supposed to find these mythical beasts? And who going into the season thought that Cowen would regress so hard or that Wiercioch pooped on Maclean’s shoes in training camp and Maclean never forgave him?

            No one could have suspected those things would happen! Nobody!!

          • Doc

            My Dad always said:

            “Never trust someone who pooped on your shoe, son.”

            That advice hasn’t failed me yet.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Is that a frequent issue for you?

          • Doc

            Not since “The Incident”.

          • jimmyjohnson
          • zippy

            Good point Jimmy.

            In retrospect there were a few unknowns. Turris, Zibanejad, Cowen, Wiercioch.

            We know now Turris is a 1/2. Zibby is a solid 3, potentially a 2. Cowen should be a top 4 if he rebounds, PW….god who knows.

            We also know D take longer than forwards to grow.

            This year will be very telling.

          • jimmyjohnson

            “This year will be very telling.”

            This is what I’ve been saying for months. This upcoming season, and the off season that follows, are important to understanding where these players and where this franchise are heading.

    • jimmyjohnson

      The Senators ranked 21st overall in capacity-filled % for 2014.

      What was that you were saying about continuous support?

      • Sandy

        Losing Alfie hurt the ticket sales.
        Fans of this team don’t support a losing team. That’s unlike the team down the 401 who can raise ticket prices and fill the arena with their corporate season seat holders when they have missed the playoffs 9 out of 10 seasons.
        Big difference when 70-80% of your sales in Ottawa are to the ‘regular’ fans and not corporate seat holders.
        Could be a lot more empty seats next season with Spezza leaving (he does have a lot of fans) and the team does poorly.
        I think a lot of fans have had enough of Melnyk.

        • jimmyjohnson

          I think a lot of fans don’t have a leg to stand on in their complaints until such time as it becomes apparent that he’s wang-ing us.

          When the team is ready to compete (and it’s not) and we still won’t spend, then I’ll agree that I’m wrong in saying “fans should just chill and take a wait and see approach”.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            K we are(more specifically were) at that point.

            Last year you trade for Ryan and sign MacArthur and Alfie and our top six would have been top notch.

            Throw another 5 or so MIL at a high end d (on my phone so can’t easily look up who was available) and our d would have looked pretty good too.

            Ryan – Turris – MacArthur
            Alfie – Spezza – michalek
            Greening – Smith – Neil
            Condra – Zibby- Hoffman

            Methot – Karlsson
            Cowen – Ufa of quality not corvo
            Weircioch – any of gryba/Philips/Ceci(who likely never would have ended up being called up)

            Anderson
            Lehner

            That’s a pretty sweet looking lineup and doesn’t even take into consideration the possibility of an additional deadline deal to shore up either our D or fw further.

            Give me a total break that what you guys are apparently waiting to happen hasn’t already happened.

          • SensChirp

            Exaaaaactly!

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Hahaha was about to write exactly to your post

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            What’s even funnier is I have my doubts that that would have even been a cap team

          • SensChirp

            But they could have made a couple deals too. Cashed in some of the quantity for quality. It’s not like you get one year to make a run and then have to spend 6 years at the floor.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Agreed that is leaving almost all of our prospects in the minors

          • runningbear1974

            We could have spent the money… We didn’t… That core was junk… Good riddance… Let’s try again with a better core… Better leaders… It’s very unrealistic that Alfie and Spezza would have led us to the cup…

          • FistsofNeil25

            Man judging from everything you have said you expect from our players I’m surprised you didn’t like Alfie. He was a better all round player in his prime than any forward in our organization projects to be. He gave his all every shift.

          • runningbear1974

            You’re right… good call… I have complicated relationship with Alfie… He always hustled…. He had great work ethic… His last year he played for us was my favourite one…
            I do however believe several of our players will be better in their prime than alfie… We need to focus on development…
            It’s been a tough day, i don’t feel like talking too much about Alfie…

          • jimmyjohnson

            That defense is still gross. I don’t think that’s the D of a contender. Especially knowing what they all played like last year.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Fine then do a quick q for q deal with Winnipeg and get Big buf.. He’ll go after Kane too.

            We had the pieces to make it happen. (I admit there weren’t a tonne of quality Ufa d so a trade would have been the most likely approach)

          • jimmyjohnson

            It’s just magic.

            Buff doesn’t make it a championship team.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            No 12 Chris Neil’s do apparently

          • runningbear1974

            You are the one who is making a ridiculous statement… You are saying absurd things for emotional affect?

          • SensChirp

            Can’t really blame him. You two have been incredibly obnoxious today.

          • jimmyjohnson

            How has Tcharger not been obnoxious? He agrees with your point, so you let it slide, it seems.

          • SensChirp

            Your responses have confirmed what I had already assumed and that’s just that you guys are looking for an argument.
            Usually a good thing but I prefer that an entire comment section doesn’t end up being about the opinions of a couple people.

          • jimmyjohnson

            I’m really not. I’m just putting forth my opinion.

            If you think runningbear has been obnoxious, but somehow Tcharger hasn’t, I don’t know what to tell you.

          • runningbear1974

            That’s not true… My statements are a response to what is said… I don’t call people names… I don’t make statements for the purpose of frustrating…I’m sharing my point of view… There’s a difference here with some of the comments… Some people are insulting, condescending…. There is a big difference….

          • SensChirp

            But yes, he has also been obnoxious. And I’m sure I’ve told him that many times in the last five years he has been on the site

          • runningbear1974

            You are the one who is obnoxious for calling people obnoxious…. And yes he and you are to blame for what you say… I’m not responsible for that…

          • jimmyjohnson

            “You are the ones who are the ball lickers!….”

          • Doc

            I know you are, but what am I?

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            HE STARTED IT!

          • Doc

            You should challenge him to a fight.

            Or at least a tricks contest.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            By the end of this summer I suspect a fight night won’t suffice we will need to go full royal rumble!

          • Doc

            Gah…now you’re just being a tease.

            That actually sounds like an awesome idea. Been trying to find an excuse to wear tights and a mask.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            All I am doing is repeating the absurd, asinine things you’ve been saying all day

          • runningbear1974

            I’ve never said we need a team of 12 Chris Neil’s… You are a liar… Don’t spread your spam to me… The opposite of Spezza is not Neil, it’s Toews or Carter…

          • FistsofNeil25

            He must be taking a page out of your book

          • runningbear1974

            Again… I am not responsible for his behaviour… There’s a few of you with the same perspective going around insulting people… I find it bullying tactics…

          • jimmyjohnson

            I don’t know what this is in reference to.

            ?

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            And seriously all you are trying to do is argue… Its getting very tiresome

          • jimmyjohnson

            Or I just don’t agree with your view on that lineup.

            Not only do you have half the wingers on their wrong sides, that team just isn’t very good. Alfie Being here isn’t going to make Michalek a top-6 winger or a good fit with Spezza. Alfie being here isn’t going to stop the goaltending from regressing to the mean. Alfie being here isn’t going to stop almost every D-man from underperforming. That lineup probably gets us in, but if you think we’re beating Boston, Pittsburgh, or New York with that lineup, you’re kidding yourself.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            If you looked at mtl you would have said the same thing…. And I don’t agree with your assessment (i know shocking) That’s why you play the games.

            As long as Pittsburgh main goalie is Fleury they will remain an extremely beatable team, especially over a 7 game series

          • jimmyjohnson

            Fleury played very well in the playoffs.

            MTL was primed to win this year. A lot of people would look at MTL’s lineup going into the playoffs this year and expect them to make the 2nd round.

            I rarely agree with your assessment, so you not agreeing with mine is about as irrelevant as it gets.

          • SensChirp

            Was last summer not the absolute perfect time to spend? Had just won a round, fans were as excited as they had ever been, we had a Captain and franchise player begging us to spend so he could take one last run, the East was as wide open as ever…
            What in the hell is this mythical “when the time is right” bullshit so many fans have bought into.
            What does that mean?

          • runningbear1974

            Who was it that Alfie wanted off the team? And who was he begging to have join the team?
            1) we were just coming off a lockout year
            2) we did make some moves with Ryan
            3) we also tried to get Clarkson
            4) Gonchar wanted 2 year contract
            We did make moves, and we tried to make other moves… What exactly did you want happen that didn’t happen?

          • SensChirp

            I can’t pretend to know “who” but I do know that if they added a legitimate defenceman (trade or FA), made the Ryan trade and signed MacArthur…AND kept Alfie…that seems likea pretty good hockey team.

          • runningbear1974

            You’re saying that if we add 10 million dollars worth of players (Alfie and good Defense) than we would have been better team… That’s most probably true… 10 million dollars… Alfie asked for 7 million though…. Gonchar wanted 2 year extension… Let’s just say those guys didn’t make it easy for Murray…

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Let’s say we resign those two… If you can honestly tell me the team doesn’t look immensely better you are nuts.

            Then consider a q for q trade for

            Buff
            Kane

            Let’s say we sent

            Michalek, Weircioch, the two picks we sent Edmonton for a “rental” Prince (he wants out anyway), boro.. Say another pick

            You honestly don’t think Winnipeg would have seriously considered it… And we would still have an absolute tonne of prospects

          • jimmyjohnson

            “Let’s get their two best players for scraps”

            The hockey insight of the brightest and best.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Then play with whatever pieces you like… Rumour has it and has for ages that they really aren’t looking for any right now pieces

          • jimmyjohnson

            So you give them a broken Michalek, 2 terrible picks, a former 3rd round pick, and Wiercioch?

            I was going to make a joke about you calling Calgary for a job, but even their offer for Spezza crushes that terrible deal.

            Usually the construct of a deal a person can put together is a solid representation of their hockey knowhow. Your deal here, I think, represents you well.

          • SensChirp

            Last warning jimmy. I’ve been doing this a long time and can tell when someone is causing problems. Maybe step away from the computer for a bit.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Outside of context, I would agree with you. If I had just come along out of the blue and attacked his hockey insight for that terrible trade proposal, then yeah, that would be unreasonable.

            But he’s been attacking my posts (and me personally a few times) all day. Given the repartee (term used loosely, undoubtedly) that we’ve had today, I would have to argue that my comment you’ve quoted is fully inline with a reasonable response to this individual.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Well, that’s two different discussions. There’s a “when the time is right” after 2013-14, and then there’s last summer.

            I’m not arguing against what you’re saying. But the Alfie scenario played out like:
            - I want $7M
            - $4.5 is what we’re offering (waiting for counter offer)
            - (still waiting)
            - (waiting)
            - I’m signing in Detroit. See ya.

            That’s why it’s tough to judge against the org. Alfie wasn’t happy at being lowballed and he bailed because of it. They told him they were going to make a move for another player, but that wasn’t enough. Maybe he wanted more done. Maybe he wanted them to buy as many players as possible. (I wish they had.) But we’ll never know.

            I’m not on the orgs side. I’m just less against them than some of you.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            There is more to the Alfie debacle… Choosing to ignore it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen

          • SensChirp

            That’s fine.
            One thing I would stress is that the org’s side and Melnyk’s side are not the same thing. If you don’t think players, coaches and management are equally frustrated with Melnyk, you’re kidding yourself.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Like Tcharger said there was a lot more that went down between Alfie and the Sens than that. The real problems started the summer before Alfie’s last season with us.

  • spezzerman

    I find it funny that of all the insiders, Brad May is the one who gets this information? Spezza may be taking the high road, but he is coming up on a new contract worth potentially something in the neighborhood of 50M dollars. His camp would be pretty defensive about being painted as someone who couldnt take the heat and wants out, wouldnt you think?

    At the same time, Spezza lobbied hard for the Captaincy. He didnt just realize that fans get mad when you dont win. why would he want the captaincy if he didnt want the blame?

    As usual, nothing is adding up.

    • runningbear1974

      In Alfie’s last year with us… There was talk on whether or not he was going to retire… But, he knew he wasn’t going to retire… His issue was about the contract… I think Alfie knew early that Murray wasn’t prepared to pay his asking price of 7 million… Lots of weird secret stuff, and deceptions all year by both Alfie and Murray…

      • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

        No Alfie wanted then to put money towards being a competitive team… He was all but told if he signed for his asking price that that would be there only move.

        • runningbear1974

          Whatever… The point is there was funny stuff going on… And it doesn’t add up nicely…

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            It’s not whatever it is a completely different reality than how you perceived it.

            If you can’t at least agree on 100% facts then why bother arguing a point?

          • runningbear1974

            No it isn’t totally different than how i portrayed it… Murray and Alfie said they talked about extending a contract… Alfie asked for 7 million to make up for the $1 million year, but Murray said he couldn’t pay him 7 million… So they decided not to talk contract during the year…. But, meanwhile, they let the fans believe that Alfie was contemplating retiring…They have been pretending to retire for the last few years… so, as i said, it doesn’t add up nicely…

    • Sandy

      Sportsnet guys like May, Kypreos and what will be Glenn Healey (saw rumour he’s going to Sportsnet) just love the trash the Sens
      Just think, we have 12 years to look forward just another version of Leafs TV.

  • Sittin’ In the Bleachers

    David Hale – 25 games
    Nikita Filatov – 9 games
    Alex Auld – 14 games
    Guillaume Latendresse – 27 games
    Mike Lundin – 11 games
    Joe Corvo II – 25 games

    Should Bryan Murray even bother to look in the “NHL bargain bin” this summer ?

    • FistsofNeil25

      Oh man… David Hale. I forgot he ever played here haha

  • Marcel Marcotte

    Thank you for the update Chirp. Belated Happy Birthday! Once the Spezza trade request was made public, it obvious that Ales Hemsky would not resign with the Sens. I keep hearing that Bryan Murray would like to resign Michalek. Are you hearing the same thing? The priority on July 1st is to resign Bobby Ryan, Clarke MacArthur and Marc Methot to long term deals.

  • Millennium

    So, skipping right over the mess that is most of this comment thread:

    With no SDC, what is our C depth outside Turris and Zibby? I know some ppl think Smith would be a good 3rd line C, but I tend to disagree. I think he belongs on the 4th line (albeit a better 4th line than the one we have). That leaves us basically Pageau (who had an underwhelming follow up year) and Lazar who is not even a guarantee to be in the NHL this season.

    If you look at our current NHL lineup in terms of where they ideally belong on the depth chart, you get this:

    Mac Turris Ryan
    ??? Zibby Stone
    Hoffman ??? ???
    Greening Smith Neil
    Condra

    If we get a top 6 winger back in the Spezza trade, we’re still missing 2/3 of a real 3rd line. We may not even be at the cap floor in that situation, so you would have to think Murray picks somebody else up, but the UFA crop this year is underwhelming to make things worse. And none of this addresses the blueline woes at all.

    Basically, next season we seem to be somewhat stuck in the middle due to timing and events that might not let us really get any decent other pieces (either from the farm or FA). Either we are gonna take on some dead weight place-holders, or we are gonna call up some kids (Prince + Pageau probably) and just let them play for 82 games of experience.

    • Mat

      Zibby needs to remain on the third line and we need a better option for L2..

      • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

        Agree I am not 100%convinced Turris is ready for consistent top line minutes without it being a 1a/1b situation.. And Zibby IMHO needs a little insulation still(although I could be proven wrong)

        • Sandy

          You are not wrong.
          I certainly don’t want Zibby taking the brunt of criticism from some Sens fans when he isn’t yet ready for 2nd line centre responsibilities.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            But sandy then he can become a new scapegoat

          • Doc

            That’s actually a pretty valid concern considering our fanbase’s history.

          • Mat

            I vote designating Philips and Greening the official scapegoats of the 2014-15 Ottawa Senators!

  • A-Train

    Yikes. This is some pretty grim stuff in here.

    I’m pretty troubled by the idea that if you don’t believe this franchise is a flaming wreck on the verge irrelevance…then you are a “moron” who has “bought into bullshit”.

    We’re in awkward transition when it comes to talent. There are certainly some questions about the owner’s overall finances.

    But I’ll wait until we don’t sign Bobby Ryan and Erik Karlsson demands a trade…then I’ll maybe join the doomers.

    Until then, just deal with the fact that not everyone shares your semi-informed, worst-case take on the state of the Ottawa Senators.

    • SensChirp

      A good comment.
      Reading things like this helps remind me why I do this and why I support the team. Over the last couple years I’ve almost got too close to the team in some ways. Heard too many negative things. And in the process, became legitimately concerned about the direction they were heading.

      If you have been here from the beginning, you’ll know I have as positive an outlook as you’ll find in the fan base. Often criticized for it, actually.

      But in the last year, I’ve sort of decided that I have a role to play in voicing frustration that I know exists among fans, players and management. I don’t like being negative about this team. Believe me.

      But you’re right…things could certainly be much worse than they are right now. Just sort of hope that if fans are loud enough in voicing their displeasure, we might help avoid that.

      • A-Train

        Thanks.

        Everyone is of course entitled to his or her own opinion…and you more so than most, given the time you put into the team and this site.

        And believe me I’m all for the truth getting out when it comes to whatever is happening with this team behind the scenes.

        But as someone who watches the team closely myself (though from afar, with no inside sources), I just don’t think we’re at the point where the situation is so obvious that everyone HAS to see it one way or be called delusional.

        • Doc

          Thems fighting words!!

          • A-Train

            …and don’t get me started on yoghurt. Iogo makes this fig/kiwi blend I’m really into lately.

          • Doc

            That sounds weird, but I’ll take your word for it!

      • runningbear1974

        If you are on a mission of sorts… I would like to understand what your goal is and how you plan to achieve it… I want a good Senators club… Hearing how much Melnyk sucks is depressing, and i don’t understand the value in that…

        • jimmyjohnson

          Seriously. Reading people like Yost is exhausting when he goes on one of his tirades against Melnyk.

          • Doc

            So what you are saying is that what he brought to light is wrong or just made up?

          • jimmyjohnson

            It might be less than accurate, is my point.

          • A-Train

            Personally, I don’t really trust that Yost knows what he’s talking about. He fell in love with the idea of himself as the Edward Snowden of the Ottawa Senators….but in the end I’m not sure it amounted to a whole lot.

            And there’s the issue of the tone of his writing. Everything is “kind of hilarious” or players are getting “absolutely slaughtered”. “Splits”. It all makes me want to gauge my eyeballs out.

          • jimmyjohnson

            It’s weird. Usually I’m a little impulsive with my up votes, when I read the first few sentences and they’re bang on, and then the person goes on to say a bunch of crap that makes me question whether I should retract my up vote.

            It seems to be the opposite with you. I just want to upvote more as I continue reading…I need a multivote option!

          • spezzerman

            Gun to your head, do you read him or Garrioch? ;)

          • jimmyjohnson

            Garrioch, without a doubt.

            Yost is just offensive to my brain.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            I actually hate reading Yost 90% of the time and actually agree with you here…But what he overturned isn’t inaccurate(although I do genuinely wish he had kept in under wraps)

        • SensChirp

          That’s a good question and one I don’t really have an answer to. The truth, I guess?

          My breaking point was the whole we spend our money on development thing. I’m a fan and when I heard that out of Melnyk, I felt like he was talking to fans like they were idiots. A budget is something that I can understand. Lies, not as much.
          That didn’t sit well with me.

          I want a good team too. And I have serious fears that Melnyk’s current approach will ruin our chances of having that. I don’t think he’s a bad guy necessarily, just not one that will own a Stanley Cup winning hockey team.

          And really, that’s all that matters.

          • Doc

            That’s exactly what makes me angry in all of this.

            It’s the way he treats the fans like they wouldn’t know any better. Like we’re not informed enough to know it’s all pure bullshit.

          • runningbear1974

            That’s what it feels like… Anger.. Anger is an irrational emotion… Anger also takes over other emotions… Makes people become single minded and focused… Which can be good, or bad depending on whether it’s leading towards goals…

          • Doc

            You mean, like happiness does?

          • jimmyjohnson

            Projecting fear onto the team because you don’t have the information required to make a judgement on the man’s financial picture hardly seems like an intelligent use of your time.

          • SensChirp

            Haha I have all the information I need, thanks. And you would too if you took the time to read and actually consider what is being said.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Oh I see it, I also consider the likelihood that his finances aren’t anywhere near as bad as everyone makes them out to be.

            Did you know Donald Trump filled for Bankruptcy FOUR times!!!

            Our billionaire owner will be fine.

          • SensChirp

            I think you might be missing the point. I honestly don’t care how our billionaire owner is doing financially. I care about how the hockey team is doing.

          • jimmyjohnson

            And like I said way back at the start of this thread:

            Conservative estimates for 80% of this teams budget put us over $50M. That means without even having a full roster, we’re spending as much as we did this year, just to keep the guys we have. If just 2 of them excel and command more, our budget swells well over $60M range with a full roster.

            Also, don’t forget, Karlsson and Turris are signed at substantial discounts. The cap number we have doesn’t provide an accurate picture of the talent on the team.

            And just as importantly, our roster spots need to be going to the bevvy of young talent we have in the system (especially at this stage of the rebuild) to find out what we have in them.

            Like I’ve been saying all day: This fan overreaction is unreasonable at this point in time.

          • Millennium

            You’re immediately assuming Melnyk will pay up for those raises. What people here are worried about is the exact opposite: that once a player gets too rich for EM’s budget, he gets shipped out for prospects and picks and entry level contracts. The evidence available over the last few seasons doesn’t reassure most fans as to Melnyk’s willingness to spend to keep the important players.

          • runningbear1974

            This is a big question… As well as, what can we as fans do to influence the team???
            I also wonder why the media don’t ask them the good questions… The media has been against the sens since the beginning… I remember the end of the year before Yashin’s sit out year… The question they asked him was something like “Are you going to sit out next year because you are worth a lot more money?”
            Need to ask the right questions…. And need to figure exactly what the right question is…
            If not happy with the owner’s behaviour then can take measures to change that behaviour, or take measures to change the owner…
            Each of those undertakings require a different amount of effort…

      • spezzerman

        the day management starts listening to fans is the day this team is
        truly doomed. just look around here, everyone has a different opinion, how do you satisfy each one? The only
        time every fan is happy is at the parade.

        • jimmyjohnson

          Yes, the day hockey people with a lifetime in the business start listening to people who are great at EA sports trades is the day I stop watching hockey.

          • Doc

            What if those same hockey people are avid EA sports fan? What then??

          • bluebuyyoo

            Throw peach yogurt at a wall of NHL player names and see where it lands. There’s your friggin’ dream team right there!

          • Doc

            I like it!

          • jimmyjohnson

            Then they’d have more free time on their hands than I thought they would.

          • Doc

            EA never lies.

          • SensChirp

            Management is also frustrated for the same reasons fans are.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Oh come on now that’s just speculation and heresay. Until management or players voice their frustration to the media then none of these reports mean anything ;)

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      Great comment….but truthfully we are only a month or two away from this happening.

  • Doc

    Woohoo! Made it to the big league now! (Chirp’s twitter).

    But you should have posted the better comments in that exchange. People will take my comment out of context. At least now the public knows he’s well trained!

    And we also found out that he likes the colour red and peach flavoured yogurt!

    • jimmyjohnson

      Don’t put words in my mouth! I never said I liked peach yogurt.

      • Doc

        I don’t blame you. Who would like to publicly admit they like the peach flavoured one better.

        Bleh.

        • FistsofNeil25

          Hey man, peach and raspberry yogourt for the win. Preferably Activia..

          • Doc

            Nothing manlier than discussing yogurt flavours on a Monday night.

            RAWR!!

    • Doc

      I really did want to dance…

      Moves like Jagr and all. Sadness.

  • Sandy

    Would be interesting if some Sens office personnel check out comments on some of the Sens bloggers.
    They would be getting an eyeful here today

    • jtf927

      absolutely. if they really are interested in providing an entertaining product, you think they would want checkout some of these forums.

  • jtf927

    since hearing of berglund’s injury, i am hoping that if a deal is made between the sens and the blues, it would be shattenkirk and the blues 1st round pic coming back our way. i am becoming more interested in a possible deal with the preds, as their name keeps coming up. i would be hoping for filip forsberg + nashville’s 1st. i wonder if mike fisher has been talking to spezza and trying to convince him to join the preds. laviolette has been saying he wants a more uptempo offensive team, spezza definitely fits that style.

  • GS86

    i have a sens locker room door sign,, would any sens fan like to buy it?

    • sprucesens

      repost above, but not unless you ship it across canada

  • PraiseAlfie11

    Good article from a st louis reporter here: http://m.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/hockey-guy-trade-possibilities-emerge-for-blues/article_a9cca276-adee-598d-8e5b-6040a68c9f18.html?mobile_touch=true

    Talk of spezza, richards, boyle and more. Seems boyle isn’t signing with the islanders?

  • Frank

    In the last 2 years, the Ottawa Senators franchise has gone from one of the most respected in the NHL to one where UFAs likely will never want to sign with. If you speak to many ex-Sens, they will tell you how well they were treated and how management respected them. I always felt there was such a great bond between Sens’ players and coaches/management that it made me proud to be a fan.

    Today, the Sens are becoming the laughing stock of the NHL. The way Alfie was treated and now hearing Spezza wants out because of the owner makes me angry. Players are becoming frustrated and believe me when I say this will become well known around the league (likely already has). If you were a UFA, would you seriously want to sign with a team that:

    A) Will be a cap-floor team
    B) Is becoming known to low-ball its own free agents
    C) Has an meddling owner
    D) Is in a pressure-filled Canadian market
    E) Has had their Captain walk away in back-to-back seasons

    I know I wouldn’t

    • jimmyjohnson

      “hearing Spezza wants out because of the owner”

      First it was the coach, then it was the fans, then it was the pressure, now it’s the owner.

      Does anyone actually know why he wants to leave? Maybe he doesn’t like any of it…

      • Doc

        Probably went against the “no peach flavoured yogurt” team policy.

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          I think they should all like Guava yogurt!

        • jimmyjohnson

          Maybe they went against his “only peach flavoured yogurt” policy.

          I think that’s much more likely.

          • bluebuyyoo

            I heard that he asked for a commitment to flavours other than peach. You know the rest…

          • jimmyjohnson

            I thought peach was the best flavour?

          • bluebuyyoo

            It is! However, you don’t know what you’ve got ’til it’s gone.

          • Doc

            Melnyk responded with his same old “Any idiots can spend on various flavours! We’ve been there.” shpiel.

            If only he would have gotten pomegranate like Aflie asked, all of this could have been avoided.

      • FistsofNeil25

        I’m sure he wants our because of all of the above reasons. A change will treat both sides well.

      • Frank

        It was reported that he wanted the team to spend to be a contender and they refused. That’s on the owner

      • Jakester

        Spezza asked to have his own puck on the ice and the League said NO!

  • Harv

    As we get closer to decision time, I find I am depending on SensChirp more and more. Thanks for your efforts – much appreciated.

    There certainly is large number of people here who are seeing the glass half empty – if not totally devoid of liquid of any type. Personally, until I see the evidence, I am sticking with the Sens and their management. When I look at the Sens cupboard it looks pretty well stocked for the next few years. Murray has done an excellent job on drafting. If Lazar is half as good as some people think then he is going to be a great player for many years.

    I am not wound up about the Hemsky offer. If we are losing Spezza then, for Ottawa, I think Hemsky’s value drops considerably – probably into the $3.3M range. It looks like the Spezza trade is going to bring some worthwhile return. And, frankly, he is never going to be the two way player we need to move forward.

    The keys are Ryan, McArthur, Turris, Karlson and Methot – not necessarily in that order. If the team does not make this group their new core then they are truly as bad as some here believe.

    I don’t like losing DaCosta. He did everything they asked and never got rewarded. That is a management negative to me but I have to believe that Murray tested the waters if indeed a DaCosta trade was in the cards. I don’t think we get anything for him if he goes to the KHL. Personally I would have given him a one way and half a year. Who I like includes Ceci, Stone, Hoffman, Z’Bad and Cowen (who I hope will bounce back). Without DaCosta I think there is no way you even consider trading Smith.

    We will know a lot in the next few weeks. Take a breather gang and keep the faith. There will be time enough for the gnashing of teeth (or cheering) after the trades and selections are done.

  • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

    So a lot of people are saying Ryan not resigning will be their last straw….how long does he have, until he signs elsewhere 1 month, 2 months??

    • A-Train

      We have over twelve months to sign him. Something on July 1 would be a good PR move, but it isn’t really necessary.

      The Leafs signed Kessel’s extension on the last day of training camp. Seemed like a good time to do it: see how he shows up for camp. Sit down and see where his head’s at and does he really want to be part of the future.

      But yeah…if it doesn’t get done on July 1 I expect an armageddon of commenting in here.

    • Captain Nitpicker

      Ryan’s contract ends after NEXT season
      Sooooo – he will be able to sign elsewhere in 12.5 months

      • Sandy

        If he isn’t signed this summer as he has no intention of staying, the better return will be to send him to Philly now..

    • aegiszx

      With the emergence of Lazar or Zibby next season, Ryan wont be missed. His 20 goals can be replaced.

      • Frank

        This is a joke, right?

        • aegiszx

          We moved on from Heatley, right? “We’ll never get those 70 pts back…” and in comes Karlsson. “Alfie is gone, this team is done” and in comes Mac… This is pro sports, shit happens, no one player makes the team, and any player can and WILL be replaced.

          • Frank

            You can’t win with 10 guys who score 12 goals each. You need high scoring players in your top 6. Saying guys like Greening, Condra and Ceci will fill the void left by losing Ryan is ridiculous (and I’m being nice…)

          • jimmyjohnson

            Karlsson scores all the goals.

          • aegiszx

            The Bruins dont have any 40 goal scorers though right? Dont they have an incredibly balanced attack… I think half their team has at least 10 goals.

          • Frank

            Are you for real?
            Bergeron (30G), Iginla (30G) Lucic (24G), Marchand (25G)

            That’s a bit more than 10 goals each

            Comparing these guys to this Sens team is idiotic

          • aegiszx

            Next season:
            Turris (30), Mac (30), Zibby (20), Karl (20), Lazar (10-20).

            Just watch…

          • Frank

            Ok, but you’re missing something. Bruins have depth that most teams only dream of:

            Krejci (19G), Smith (20G), Soderberg (16G) not to mention Chara (17G), Krug (14G), a world class goaltender and defense

            Please don’t compare Greening, Condra, etc to these guys

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            10 goals man!

            10 goals!!!

          • sprucesens

            yes this would be amazing, but probably more like 25 for the first 2, which i’m ecstatic with. Lazar if he makes the team will likely only get around 10, 15 max, as he won’t be put in place to be playing 20 minutes a night. And you can add in 30-35 for ryan if you seem to want to keep all those players scoring at a pace they have yet to achieve.

          • Jakester

            They couldn’t beat the crappy Habs this year Great Balance!

      • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

        You can’t be serious…Don’t like his game…fine(I honestly don’t understand how this is possible…he does everything you could want from a player and regularly puts up 30 goals)….but saying his 20 goals(which happened once and he was injured for half the season) is insane.

        • aegiszx

          Greening, Smith, and Condra all had off years. If they even so much score 3-5 more extra goals each, that’s already 15+… so yes, his goals can and will be replaced. Ceci is a rookie and is supposed to be developed as an OFD, so hes bound to start scoring goals soon too.

          As for Bobby, like many others have expressed here over the course of the year, his game is “fine”… we got him to score goals, but the rest of his game is questionable… hustle dude, just once…

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            What….have you even watched him play?

          • aegiszx

            Him and No.65 come to the rink like its a Sunday afternoon picnic… I can let it go with Karl since we’re stuck with him and its his game and he runs his own show/has his own structure… but too many times I watched Bobby hanging out by himself…

          • Frank

            Haha! Now you’re saying EK sucks too? Wow

          • aegiszx

            EK plays the EK way, and thats to put up points.

          • Frank

            And that’s what teams need to win games…

          • sprucesens

            ryan plays the way ryan does. and thats to put up goals, which he does better than 95% of the players in the league. Think about that for 1 minute. And does so WITH size and WITH excellent defense. Yeah, he’s not as fast as hoffman, but i’d like to see you “hustle” with a hernia.

          • Millennium

            “stuck” with Karlsson. THE HUMANITY.

            This is one of the most hilariously terrible posts I’ve ever seen. So Greening, Condra and Smith are all excused, but our top 2 players are “questionable”

            Is this real life?

          • Doc

            Don’t bite!

            He’ll say that he’s well trained next!

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Did someone slip drugs into my dinner because I have to be hallucinating to be seeing half the crap I am reading today.

          • A-Train

            Here we go. Spezza not even gone and the target is already shifting..

          • Jakester

            Karlsson recovering from one of the worst injuries you can have and still out scored all other D men by 20 points. Sure he had trouble pivoting going backwards which hurt his D but he’ll be back to being a plus 20 this year( that is if he isn’t with Jerry Seinfeld).

          • Doc

            YEAH! For once!

            And none of that “ow my sports hernia is really hurting” BS!! Man up butter cup! Amirite?!?

          • Sandy

            He played over 4 mos with that injury, while the normal ‘man’ would be crying in pain and complaining all the time.

          • Doc

            It was sarcasm ;)

          • Sandy

            My bad…

          • Jakester

            Greening, Smith, and Condra, 3 guys clogging up our forward ranks. Time to dump some of these guys via trade.

        • runningbear1974

          I agree with you… He’s established he’s a 35 goal guy… He was injured… He’s very important to our future…

      • Doc

        Fan’s fault.

      • sprucesens

        seriously? 23 is the low mark for ryan, with 23 being the goal TOTAL for zib so far. 30 or more is closer to ryan’s scoring when healthy for a full season. That’s 50% more goal scoring. Don’t get me wrong, i love zib on the team, but this is just a stupid comment. I can’t wait for lazar to be on the team, this year or later. But so far, he has 0 goals in professional hockey. Why don’t we wait until he proves something at the top levels in the world, before saying he’ll replace a 4 time 30 goal scorer, and nearly top pick of the draft, only behind crosby. I really hope this was sarcasm

    • FistsofNeil25

      I think I’m one of the only fans who isn’t in love with Ryan’s game. He’s a good player but I don’t want to see us over sign him. To me he’s in the same class as guys like Blake Wheeler, Joe Pavelski, Jason Pominville etc a good contract figure for a player with his production is 6M – 6.5M

      If he doesn’t want to sign I won’t be heartbroken as long as he’s traded instead of walking away as a free agent.

      I want to sign him, but not for 7M+ long term. I hope both sides are interested in something around 5 years in the 6M – 6.5M range.

      • A-Train

        He’s yet to totally win me over as well. But I know the organization is very high on him, pursued him for years and swung a big deal to land him.

        If they can’t sign him I’ll start to be concerned about the Senator’s ability to sign real talent, including our upcoming RFAs.

      • sprucesens

        i’ve loved ryan’s game for years, and was super happy we got him. They would be stupid to let him walk, regardless of the money. If it takes 7 mill long term, fine. He plays a hard hitting, sniping, and finesse game all in 1. Basically exactly what we are looking for in our top 6. He was nearly our top scorer when missing a month, and playing the rest with a sports hernia. You want those guys on your team

      • Aaron 2.0

        I’m sort of in your boat with Ryan. Even when he was scoring a lot near the beginning of the season, I wasn’t exactly sold on his game. It’s all relative of course (expectations were high for him). But, with what’s going down, keeping him is probably going to take on quite a bit more importance. I think it we lose him, things get ugly. If you can’t retain any top end talent, there’s not much chance of adding good players down the road. Scary times. Hopefully the dust settles before the beginning of the season.

    • spezzerman

      He cant sign elsewhere – he will be traded though if the Sens cant work a deal out with him. And then the shit really hits the fan.
      And again, not because of what he individually can do but he is a guy who owes the sens nothing and is only staying, and likely leaving money on the table on the open market, if he likes the direction this team is going. And he will certainly demand to know before he commits.

  • AutoTurris

    Can we afford to get Shattenkirk back in the Spezza return? I mean, don’t get me wrong, I see his value and his value for the team but we are already so log-jammed on the back end, is passing up this opportunity for a forward return what BM is going to do realistically? I vote not. We are honestly looking at Berglund, maybe Rattie/Jaskin and their pick. Not the greatest I agree, but at least it will be a great environment for Zib to continue to develop and I am optimistic about Berglund playing in a Sens uniform. FResh and the night night competition isn’t quite as fierce. The injury clouds the whole thing a little bit but honestly, after today a three piece trade coming back our way for Spezza would allow me to sleep at night.

    • jtf927

      i think a trade for spezza and shatty straight up would be very fair. i actually think that the sens would be on the losing end, b/c spezza is a proven nhl elite player who is a pt per game, whereas shatty is still young and slightly unproven. slightly. but, having shatty will really speed up our team by increasing the transition game. we have alot of fast young forwards, the less time we spend in our own zone, and the more we have the puck, the better. our biggest need this offseason is a top pairing dman. if we can get something else in return, bonus. but the defense has to be a priority.

      • AutoTurris

        I think getting a top 6 together that doesn’t have the second line running as Hoff/ Zib/ Stone might be a tad bit more of a priority, but I respect your opinion on that and agree that it is an issue that needs to be addressed; just not as soon as our second line.

        • jtf927

          agreed. the top six needs tweaking. but, having that first line of mcarthur-turris, ryan, makes me way less nervous. i am also hoping that 9mm re-signs and helps round out our top 6/9.

          • AutoTurris

            Just posted asking about what a decent contract for him would be

          • jtf927

            honestly, between 2-3 mill per season. no more than that, he wants to stay in Ottawa. i am sure he’ll take a discount.

          • Jakester

            He’s going to want 3,5-4 minimum to stay. He could get more out there. Teams are desperate.

          • jtf927

            i don’t think he will get that much money on the free market. he has a history of injury and his production has really tapered off. he has mentioned that he really likes Ottawa and wants to stay. that plays to our advantage. i was thinking the sens should maybe sign him to a performance based contract. give him a base salary of maybe 1.5-2 mill, and then offer more based on performance.

          • sprucesens

            i think this is about right. If he is mostly wanting to stay, we’d offer close to what we offered hemsky. that might have even been the biggest reason they offered hemsky that contract, to show what they were willing to pay for a top 6.

        • sprucesens

          woa woah woah. “you respect his opinion on that” are words that have never been said on the internets! bravo sir, bravo *slow clap*

    • Jakester

      I agree, be good to get two young forwards in this trade. We could move Anderson, a couple of D, and a few forwards in other trades. Sens have tons of bodies to move. Moving bodies will give some of our young guys in bingo hope!

  • Frank

    What is going on with some of these posters? I can’t even believe some of the garbage I’m reading here. Are you people for real?

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      I hear you!

    • bluebuyyoo

      Are you kidding? It’s the middle of June and the Chirpers are passionate! I love this place!

    • aegiszx

      Buckle up gentlemen, its going to be a long summer!!!!

    • Doc

      Not a yogurt fan I see.

  • aegiszx

    “We’ll never get anywhere on a budget… this team sucks!”

    The Preds would disagree with that… they’re able to put together a solid team every year with very little and have an amazing backend with Rinne/Weber. That’s a budget team we should be modelling our team after.

    • Frank

      And what have they EVER done in the playoffs?

    • FistsofNeil25

      What’s the furthest the Preds have ever advanced in the playoffs on their budget?

      • Millennium

        2nd round. Haven’t made it in the last two years. Not exactly the ideal target to be chasing.

        • FistsofNeil25

          But I thought they were the budget team we should be modelling ourselves after? The team with a maximum of two or three top six forwards on their roster who lost Ryan Suter for nothing and who Shea Weber tried to runaway to Philly from.

          • aegiszx

            Are you saying we should model ourselves after the high spending Leafs, Caps, and Sharks instead? Those first round studs that know how to get it done year after year!

          • Frank

            How about the teams who not only draft well but also surround their developed talent with good UFAs like LA, Anaheim, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Boston. Shall I go on?

          • aegiszx

            Anaheim, you mean that team that beat us 7 years ago but has done nothing since? Also first round chokers… and Pitts, the team thats cleaning house right now after acquiring elite talent year after year… only to flounder in the early rounds?

          • FistsofNeil25

            Al those teams have done better than Nashville and have more promising futures lol

          • Frank

            Both teams you mentioned have something the Sens don’t. A Cup win! You seem to want a team that can squeak into the playoffs every year so you can wave your pom-poms for a round or 2.

            The Preds will NEVER win a Cup with the way they are managed. If you want to win, you have to draft well, develop your talent and most of all, make great trades and signings at the right time

          • aegiszx

            TRUST in the EUGE to SPEND when the time is right… The Euge knows best.

          • Millennium

            Trust is earned. Euge hasn’t done anything to earn fans’ trust.

          • aegiszx

            How quick we are to forget… Why are we biting the hand that fed us? One year the Euge is god, one off season and hes a villain…

            Never lose trust, he will bring us to the promised land.

          • Frank

            You believe in the Tooth Fairy too?

          • Doc

            You mean Quebec City?

          • Millennium

            The man got a sweet, sweet deal to buy the team for a song out of bankruptcy. I’m glad he bought the team, but lets not pretend like he did it out of the goodness of his heart. This is a business investment for him. Now his money has seemingly run out, and he’s downsizing his expenses just like any other investor.

          • Sandy

            My thoughts only:
            He has the team as one entity which receives TV revenue, etc from the league and he pays the players salaries, coaches and management. Hell, he probably has the team ‘paying rent’ to CTC. That he says is losing money.

            Then he has CTC as another ‘company’ with non-hockey event money, restaurants, concessions, parking, capital tickets which is probably doing extremely well.

            Overall, I think he makes money.

          • Millennium

            I think that is entirely possible. Hollywood accounting.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting

          • jimmyjohnson

            Except save the franchise, spend to the cap for 5 years, commit to his GM in turbulent times, be the teams #1 fan, etc etc etc

          • Doc

            “be the teams #1 fan” ? Really? lol

          • Frank

            Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            BWAHAHAHAHAHA

          • Sandy

            Ottawa won’t be spending to the top of the cap. That will keep getting higher and higher and Melnyk won’t go there.
            But this team, playing in Canada, and combined with CTC this ‘organization’ is making money — they should be 5-10M below the top of the cap.
            You can’t tell me between the building and the team, Melnyk is losing money.

          • PraiseAlfie11

            And the time isn’t right, I suppose?

          • wild bill

            You want to buy a bridge.

          • jimmyjohnson

            “teams like big market/sunny, sunny, big market, big market, big market”. Please, go on.

          • Frank

            Sunny? That’s your argument? lololololol

          • Doc

            And big.

          • jimmyjohnson

            Yeah, you’re right, amazing weather year round isn’t at all enticing.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Lol from one extreme to the next eh bud

          • sprucesens

            and then handcuffed the team, to accept a giant contract for forever, or lose him for picks that would still be in junior.

    • sprucesens

      while i agree they seem to only get their home grown talent, and do a decent job at it, they never add players of the star variety, hence they are always middle of the pack. Personally, i want to see my team win a cup in my lifetime. Making the playoffs and never winning anything defeats the point of the sport. Its fine from an entertainment and business perspective, but not from a fan or player’s point of view. Player’s want to win, and fans want their players to win. Players won’t want to play here, if we aren’t going to try to win. Yes there are ups and downs, but like many players, not just the one’s that have and are leaving our team, they want a chance to WIN, not just make the playoffs. You have to start signing SOME top UFA’s to get that core with your young guys growing. Then when the time is right, get the last piece or 2, sign the one or 2 guys to get you to the cup

  • AutoTurris

    Okay, honestly never thought I’d post this but what would be fair a fair contract for Michalek in your guys’ opinion? I know he was -25 and without Spezza was worse than Conacher, but he knows he had a bad year and he really likes it in Ottawa. Discount perhaps? He’s the only one they ‘want’ to hang onto and I’m scared shitless at this point.

    • Frank

      I can’t see them offering him more than they offered Hemsky so $3mil tops

      • jtf927

        absolutely. 2-3 mill, in that range.

      • Millennium

        Yeah, this seems like the outer most limit, but hopefully never for 3 years. At this point, the damage to the roster is done, I’d rather let him go too, unless takes 2M on a one year or something like that.

      • AutoTurris

        Okay well edit of the original post; what contract do you think MM9 would be likely to settle with?

        • jimmyjohnson

          The best offer he gets 16 days from now.

      • cups

        for 3 at 3yrs he is a reliable pro with upside. this is exactly how I see him. 2/3lw that kills penalties and could be better in front of the net than neil on pp.

    • FistsofNeil25

      Something in the range of what the offered Hemsky lol

    • peetypuck

      Probably about $3 – 3.5 million would be my guess.

  • laffin681021

    So I was chosen to receive a free shirt from the Sens on twitter about a month ago for the NHL15 cover vote and still have not received the shirt in the mail…Melnyk has really gone too far….

    • jimmyjohnson

      He needs that shirt to clean up all the peach yogurt flying around the CTC.

      Don’t be so selfish man.

      • FistsofNeil25

        I hope the Sens marketing team gets a hold of this peach yogurt theme. Anything is better than Fearless Sens

        • bluebuyyoo

          Peachy Sens! LOLOLOLOLOL!

          • Doc

            I’m making a T-shirt out of that.

          • jimmyjohnson

            On the front it should say “Don’t you worry, friend”

            and on the back “The Sens are just Peachy” with a peach yogurt cup underneath.

          • Doc

            I’d prefer:

            Sens: We’re well trained.

          • jimmyjohnson

            They’re pretty good at hockey.

            Yeah, I’m good with that.

          • Doc

            “Sens: We’re not the worst, yet!”

        • wild bill

          They got laid off. They hired a soccer marketing guy from Toronto. I don’t know if he actually likes yogurt.

          • Deadly

            He has recently gone to a soccer team in England.

          • SensChirp

            Just heard that, actually.

          • Doc

            Does that mean we can use the Olé chant too?

          • wild bill

            Let the habs have that I hate it.

          • Doc

            FINE!

            I’ll just go to games with my Vuvuzela then.

          • wild bill

            Iol

    • A-Train

      He was keeping it as leverage in the Hemsky negotiations. You should be getting it in a few days.

      • jimmyjohnson

        lmao This is tremendous

      • laffin681021

        Funny that you say that I just recieved my shirt today…Melnyk must have worn it a few times not sure if I should put it on.

  • Floridasensfan

    Ownership is the only questionable problem with the team going forward.
    If the owner was saying, we are building the team to bring a cup to Ottawa.
    We are trying to find the right mix of players to take us there and need to be patient and let some young guys develop, in the interim we are being cost effective at the same time trying to be competitive and fun to watch while getting lots of playoff experience on the way. Once in playoffs anything can happen even while growing.
    Alfie and Spezza were not in our long term plans and for various reasons we parted ways, both sides are moving on.
    We would have liked Alfie to retire a Senator but we screwed that up, it was our fault but ultimately Alfie’s decision to move on.
    I have had financial issues but have cut the bleeding getting out of other interests to focus on making the Senators a winning strong team for generations.
    Being cost effective we can put money aside to be able to spend when we are ready.

    Thats a far cry from what we are hearing from ownership.

    What BM does this off season will set the tone for our future up or down.
    Good news is we have to reach the cap floor.

    Time will tell

    Do we have a PR department? (JK)
    Anytime EM speaks he should have a teleprompter and have his talks written for him.
    No questions can be asked, EM can just say any questions can be answered by our GM thats his job not mine. BM the floor is yours.

    • sprucesens

      if only ownership shared your views, or better yet, actually voiced their ACTUAL opinions. But so far, he basically said he spent to the cap once, didn’t win, so he won’t spend any more. Players have to WANT to play here. Meaning they need players that don’t want the big dollars. Which generally means worse players. And if only the saved money these years, would go back into the team at a later date, but so far there is no indication this is the plan

    • Andrews theory

      Spot on…and that is what pisses people off.

  • PraiseAlfie11

    Lots of breathing to be done between now and july 5th folks. That is when we will know the truth.

    • A-Train

      What’s happening on July 5th? Are you planning something?

      • PraiseAlfie11

        Alfie’s departure anniversary. I figure anything that’s going to happen will be done by that date.

        • Doc

          Wait, are we supposed to celebrate that?

          I hope not ’cause I didn’t get him anything.

  • ProfessorPower

    so we are not going to have Spezza, Hemsky, Da Costa, and possibly Greening on the team next season. This is fantastic news!

    • sprucesens

      you figure someone actually makes a proposal on greening? I know there is a rumor about chicago, or maybe oilers. I just don’t see it, or it would be done by now.

      • A-Train

        I’m sure the offers — if they exist — have been pretty meagre. Greening deserved the abuse he got last season, but I doubt they want to give up on him just yet — unless he’s part of a package that gets a more significant piece back.

        • Aaron 2.0

          For me, Greening would be the type of player to give up on. People generally thought the contract was okay, me included. There were a few moans and groans that it might be a little high after a good playoffs, but really, nobody was complaining. Money wasn’t the focus it is around here today. I could absolutely see him turning it around. He’s fast and big. And, he has to be disappointed with last season. But, at the same time, I don’t think we’re talking about a player with an overly high ceiling. And, there’s probably just as good a chance that he doesn’t turn it around. In that case, we’re stuck with the contract. If someone was interested, I’d say pull the trigger. I’d be surprised though.

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • PraiseAlfie11

        Haha

      • Doc

        Thems fighting words.

      • zippy

        I feel like I’m back in grade school. FIGHT at 3:15 behind the school!!!

    • Jakester

      Where is Greening going? Not that I really care.

      • Millennium

        Chicago is the team mentioned. Can’t really imagine it happening though.

        “In Ottawa, the Hawks have liked C/W Zack Smith in the past, and they like him now. Also add W/C Colin Greening to that list (somewhere in Canada, Greening’s fellow Newfoundlander, Dr. Mike Hart, is pleased at this news). Greening is especially interesting as he has the size/speed combination the Hawks have been lacking, and the ability to play a complementary role with more skilled forwards—something Troy Brouwer did well in Chicago.”

        • Jakester

          Oh ok I put that up the other day from Hockey Buzz. I would trade Greening and Cowen as a package. In another deal.

    • PraiseAlfie11

      Alright, critical thinking time.

      Spezza – ppg career. They dont grow on trees. Nobody seems to admit he made all his points after christmas. He’s very valuable to any team who needs a playmaking 1C.

      Hemsky – gone for nothing

      Dacosta – you’re not winning a cup because of him.

      Greening – diappointing. He knows he has much more than hockey? Plays soft and doesn’t apply himself like he could.

      I guess the question is : can you win with Spezza? I think you can, with strong wingers. If he is leaving because the sens won’t commit to spending, then we are in serious trouble.

      • wild bill

        Your right.

      • Jakester

        Spezza is Kovalevesque we weren’t going to win with him. TUrris,Zibby,Lazar, down the middle we’ll have heart and a commitment for the whole 200 feet. Spezz has had 10 plus years to prove he’s bringing it in the clutch and he hasn’t , let’s try a new formula.

        • Tooks

          If Lazar’s potential is 3C we’re in deep trouble…

          • Jakester

            Can we give a few years possibly in the 3C spot??? before you crucify him???

          • Frank

            If he comes in and wins the 3C spot this season, how are “we” in trouble?

        • jtf927

          absolutely agree. turris, zbad, lazar, and smith play a hard 200 ft game. that is exactly what we need.

      • ProfessorPower

        Really it comes down to how well BM does on the Spezza deal. It can make or break our team next season and in the slight future.

        Offering Hemsky 3.33 mil is fine, If I was BM I would’t offer him a cent more than Macarthur. It also makes it public he is willing to trade his rights for a pick/in a package.

        100% you can win without Spezza. A team has done it every year he has been in the league.

        • PraiseAlfie11

          Ok…that last paragraph is a thinker.

  • Jakester

    People forget that Hoffman is actually a natural centerman. Losing DaCosta for zip(which I don’t get) sucks, but options exist.

    • PraiseAlfie11

      Nobody wanted him is the only answer.

  • PraiseAlfie11

    Hemsky “officially” gone.
    http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=722884

  • Jakester

    People are down , but this team will be OK. I think once the dust settles we’ll all be excited and I’ll be buying my3game package driving up to Ottawa from Montreal with one of my little guys to see a game!

    • Tooks

      Yeah cant wait to watch half a top 6 and half a top 4 go at it every night! Cant wait!

      Fuck it, who wants to fight!

      • Jakester

        The Sumo blow up suits, let’s go TOOKS!

        • Tooks

          Oh no u didnt! I’m a ninja in those suits!

  • Mat

    Can we all agree right now that Philips and Greening will be the scapegoats starting next season?

    PP is at 16%?? Totally Philips… Too many afternoon game letdowns? Also Philips. Owner doesn’t spend money?? That one’s on Greening.. Sure that might make them want to leave, but man, you feel so much better blaming those two.

    Go ahead, try it. You’ll see..

    • Andrews theory

      I was planning to blame some dude named Mat on Senschirp

    • sprucesens

      i’ll play devil’s advocate. in a way, spending the wasted money on greening does make it harder to spend more on other players. But its sort of a sideways point, because technically, he’s still spending money. lol

  • Andrews theory

    Yost was kind enough to put up this misleading Melnyk quote delivered in reference to the Karlsson signing.

    “From our perspective, everybody has to be reasonable, recognizing … Look, we can’t spend toe-to-toe with the highest and the biggest market teams,” said Melnyk.

    “All we can offer is an opportunity to some of these players and the opportunity to be part of a great organization with a shot. There’s no question that we have the pieces to be competitive and if we add the right pieces, an extremely competitive team.

    Hmmmm…gotta be careful selling a false bill of goods to your players, especially when they are franchise players.

    Seems to me, Alfredsson called him on it and Spezza called him on it.

    Eeeesh

  • Andrews theory

    I think Chicago will trade with Tampa Bay exchanging Sharp and Filppula as the main pieces.

    Chicago saves 900K and he’s an ideal fit beside Kane.
    Sharp can ride shotgun with Stamkos

    Works for both teams

    • FistsofNeil25

      That’s an interesting idea. I like Filppula but I think that Chicago could get a bit better return than that for Sharp. Maybe Tampa would have to add a bit.

      Stamkos definitely needs a new wing-man now that St Louis is gone. I think Tampa is pretty close to being a contender in the east. If Bishop is the real deal then they have three solid pillars to build around with him Stammer and Hedman.

      Stammer has 2 seasons left on his contract and if Stevie Y wants to keep him happy and extend him long term, he’s going to have to make a big moves to load up for a run.

  • SensFanInMTL

    Happy birthday, Chirp. 29 though? Man you old. It’s alright. I myself and probably a good chunk of the members here are probably around the same age.

    And Doc, quit antagonizing bro!

  • peetypuck

    I’m sure Melnyk has lots of accountants to advise him financially. That’s why he refuses to pay out more money while he’s rebuilding. There is a good reason that he will increase spending when the team is closer to contending. At that time he will increase spending by $10-12 million for a couple top players to get the team to go far in the playoffs. Remember, the playoffs generate all new revenue for the team plus he does not pay salaries. The league takes a percentage of the gate receipts. Going three rounds would probably pay back that $10-12 million plus plenty more in profit. Ol’ Pennypincher knows this and I bet he dreams of getting his hands on those profits.

    • my2sens

      How do we get to become a competitive team without spending though? And at which point can you say we’re competitive?

      • SensChirp

        Really important question.

        You don’t get to stockpile good players (and keep them happy) during years of mediocrity and cap floor spending.

        • zippy

          Yes players want cash. Which means we must continue to draft well. And put something together which works well. And hope UFAs will sign here when there’s a chance to win.

          This has been the DET model for years.

          Fortunately we have one of the best drafters out there in BM.

          Shero got lucky and got Crosby and Malkin.

          • SensChirp

            Players also want to be competitive year to year, though.

          • zippy

            I believe Spezza didn’t fit into MacLeans plans, so we are moving into a new era. We’ll see how things go.

      • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

        We would have been competitive had we signed Alfie, and Macarthur and traded for Ryan…and instead of signing Corvo signed or traded for a higher caliber D(weren’t a tonne on the UFA market so this step could have been easier said than done).

        • peetypuck

          We signed Ryan and MacArthur. Obviously Alfie made his own decision to sign elsewhere with his Swedish pals. That’s very old news now and it’s been rehashed enough. Stop living in the past.
          Spezza no longer fits in to the Sens plans. It’s time for a new, younger group to chase their cup dreams.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            That’s fine and dandy but people keep talking about he will spend when the time is right to spend… We already have passed one of those times without spending.

            And to say Alfie simply signed in Detroit is very simplistic and not taking everything that happened into consideration when evaluating that and some subsequent moves.

            If it were as simple as Alfie just signed elsewhere there wouldn’t be so much concern about this team.

      • WaitingSince92

        I think that’s the point. It takes Melnyk off the hook because he can just keep telling us “we’re not contenders yet”, without spending anything.

        • peetypuck

          So your saying that Melnyk won’t spend more to increase his profits? Where’s the logic in that?

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Are you a new fan this year?

          • WaitingSince92

            Oversimplified. Can’t touch this ridiculous comment with 3 minutes until I leave for work.

          • peetypuck

            So what are you saying? Will he spend or not? I kept my comment simple by stating that I can see a good reason for him to spend. That’s all I send. Are you and several others trying to twist my words?

    • FistsofNeil25

      a) We have no reason to believe that Eugene will increase payroll by $10-12 million

      b) You better hope that by the time he’s ready to spend (if ever) that we still have names like Karlsson, Ryan, Turris etc on our roster. No sane hockey player wants to play for a small market budget team.

      c) Eugene better hope he hasn’t driven away a large portion of this fanbase by then as well.

      • peetypuck

        Correction: We have no guarantee that Eugene will increase payroll. I just gave you a reason why he will or should.
        I don’t know about you but it will take more than Melnyk to push me off the Sens bandwagon. I intend to keep on cheering for them. If you want to abandon the team when they need us the most that’s your decision.

        • WaitingSince92

          No one is “abandoning” them. You can cheer for a team and not like the way the owner conducts his business. You must be Eugene’s nephew or something.

          • peetypuck

            According to Fists he says the fanbase might abandon the team. Name calling is like admitting that you have no argument to back you up.

          • Frank

            Are you 12? Cause my daughter argues just like you do and she’s 12

          • peetypuck

            More childish name calling?

          • zippy

            This is a Sens fan site Peety. You will eventually be ignored if you just bait people. Well you’ll be ignored by me for sure.

          • Frank

            Look at how you react to people who disagree with you? If anyone is acting childish, it’s you!

            Fans are EXTREMELY frustrated with how Melnyk has been running things the last year. We lost the face of the franchise and we are about to lose the best offensive player this team has ever had. And, to top it all off he has announced he will not spend until “the time is right” which could be NEVER!

            The only option we have to show our displeasure with all of this is to not spend money on this team. That doesn’t mean we won’t cheer for them anymore. It means we want to send Uncle Euge a message.

            Now please, take your ball and go home already. None of us want to play with you anymore.

          • FistsofNeil25

            One thing – he once mentioned he would spend when the time is right, but since then he has only said things like “any idiot can increase payroll and a lot of idiots do” and “I’ve spent to the cap before and it doesn’t work”

            That’s why fans are outraged. It’s been a long time since the Euge said he’ll spend when the time is right, and it was before the cap was expected to hit 70M and 75-76M the year after next

          • peetypuck

            Now you’re just being outright rude and insulting. You go home and wash out your mouth while you’re at it.
            Cry all you want about the state of the Sens. That’s not my fault so don’t take your frustration out on me. The sky isn’t falling just because Spezza wants to leave. He was offered the chance to be traded by Murray when the rebuild began. He declined. Now he changed his mind. That’s life. Get over it already.

          • Frank

            I’m already over it. I’m actually excited to see what the Sens get in return for JS. I’ve also made a smart decision as a fan, that’s all. Once I see a commitment from Euge, I’ll come back to the rink

        • FistsofNeil25

          I never said I would. The Sens will always be my team through the good times and the bad. There seem to be a lot of people on the edge though and depending on how the next couple years go, fans will hit Eugene where it hurts the most by not spending their own money in the team.

          • peetypuck

            You can’t speak for anyone else but yourself. What makes you think that you’re any more loyal to the team than anyone else?

          • FistsofNeil25

            What the hell are you talking about? Just read down in this comment section and you’ll see that half the posters here will bail on the team if they don’t get a deal done for Bobby.

          • peetypuck

            There’s a saying, “don’t believe anything you hear…”. There’s a good reason for that. As you mature you will come to understand this.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Don’t believe anything you hear….. Alright paranoia confirmed

          • peetypuck

            You’re a really weird person. Sociopath?

          • WaitingSince92

            Speaking of condescension…

          • Doc

            TV NEVER LIES!

          • FistsofNeil25

            Man if you want to talk about the team then it’s all good. If you want to say things like “as you mature…” then just take a hike.

            It’s common sense – put a good product on the ice and the fans will come. Put a lousy product on the ice and the fans will stay away. It’s true for every market in the NHL with the exception of Toronto and Montreal.

            If the team isn’t performing up to par, then fans aren’t going to spend their hard earned money to attend games and the CTC’s attendance will continue to drop. It’s already happening!

          • peetypuck

            Tell Melnyk that not me.
            I simply stated that Melnyk has a good reason to spend more money and that’s to make more money during the playoffs. So, what’s your beef?

          • FistsofNeil25

            Me – “I never said I would abandon the team. The Sens will always be my team through the good times and the bad. There seem to be a lot of people on the edge though and depending on how the next couple years go, fans will hit Eugene where it hurts the most by not spending their own money on the team.”

            You – “You can’t speak for anyone else but yourself. What makes you think that you’re any more loyal to the team than anyone else?”

            Me- “It’s common sense – put a good product on the ice and the fans will come. Put a lousy product on the ice and the fans will stay away. It’s true for every market in the NHL with the exception of Toronto and Montreal.

            If the team isn’t performing up to par, then fans aren’t going to spend their hard earned money to attend games and the CTC’s
            attendance will continue to drop. It’s already happening!

          • peetypuck

            What the hell are you whining about.
            Let me repeat…I simply gave a reason for ‘Ol Pinchpenny to spend more money on the team Just a reason, I didn’t guarantee it. What seems to be your problem with that?

          • FistsofNeil25

            I don’t have a problem with that at all and I’m not whining. I just said that he better hope he hasn’t driven away a large portion of the fanbase by the time he’s ready to spend (if ever). You told me not to speak for other people when it comes to supporting the team or not, and I was simply backing up my argument. Pretty standard procedure no?

          • peetypuck

            You started your first comment off with “We have no reason to believe that Eugene will increase payroll” in direct confrontation to me just giving you a reason. So you see, you did have a problem with what I said. Now you’re denying that?

          • peetypuck

            C’mon, big man, answer me. Do you deny that you said that?

          • Tooks

            Uh oh, Fists, looks like you will be fighting 2 guys on the card! a good old 2 on 1!!

          • FistsofNeil25

            Looking for a tag-team partner. You interested?

          • peetypuck

            What’s wrong, your ego too big to admit what you said?

          • Frank

            Man you’re annoying. If anyone deserves a bitch slap here, it’s you

          • peetypuck

            Are you willing to try or do always have a big mouth hiding behind your computer in anonymity?

          • Frank

            Anytime my friend. Anytime

          • peetypuck

            Let’s do it then.
            Name the time and place.
            I’ll be there.

          • peetypuck

            Let’s do it then.
            Name the place and time.
            I’ll be there.

          • Frank

            CTC. Tomorrow. 1pm

          • peetypuck

            No good for me. I live in Pembroke.
            Pembroke Community Centre. Tomorrow. 1pm

          • Frank

            Figures

          • peetypuck

            C’mon up. I’m all yours.
            Don’t disappoint me.

          • Tooks

            What the hell, nothing like a tag team TLC match…

          • CaMo

            If Tookie wusses out I’ll be your partner. I wanna smack Peety so hard after reading this.

          • peetypuck

            Any time big boy! Let’s see how brave you are when you aren’t hiding behind your computer.
            C’mon, you wanna slap me?
            Just tell me when and where, tough guy. I’ll be glad to meet you.

          • PraiseAlfie11

            It’s “don’t believe EVERYTHING you hear”.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Anything man…. Don’t believe anything the man is out to get you!

          • peetypuck

            You’re right. I stand corrected.

          • Tooks

            Fans like you is whats keeping this team in mediocrity, keep feeding Melnyk the cash to stay above water but not so much as to spend.

            Blind faith hurts more than it helps, supporting this team when its owner doesnt is kinda stupid. Why should us fans spend a dime when he aint willing to committ to winning?

            When he shows he is serious about winning then I will be serious about spending. It doesnt look good.

          • peetypuck

            You aren’t being logical or else I’m too optimistic. The Sens are in a rebuild. Why would they be spending to the cap?
            Forcing Murray to spend to early, without the horses and firepower is the best way to doom the Sens to mediocrity.

          • Tooks

            Theres your first mistake, we aint in a rebuild, its called a re-tool. You dont rebuild in 3 years without luck and some damn good players.

            Had we rebuilt properly we would still be in the rebuild process, more like 5 years. But we are not rebuilding…

            So with that out of the way, when do you think Melnyk will spend? Its not like we have improved our team since the “Rebuild” we have actually regressed but stayed in mediocrity

            Melnyk said he will spend when the time is right, when do you think that time will be? In 3-4 years? Who will still be here? You are falling right into Melnyk’s trap.

          • Doc

            Who said anything about spending to the cap?
            This annoys me to no end. It’s like there’s no grey zone with you guys.

            It’s either cap floor or cap ceiling, which is ridiculous.

          • whammer44

            He’s more likely to spend at the gap than to it ;)

          • Doc

            Pff…it was edited a minute after I posted lol.

            Nice catch though. :)

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          Because I refuse to pay money for this team in its current disastrous state doesn’t mean I or anyone is no longer a fan of the team..
          It simple means we are using our only way to show our displeasure with the way things are being ran.

          • Doc

            Agreed.

          • peetypuck

            Point out to me where T-charger is addressing anything that I said.

          • Doc

            I agreed with his comment. That’s it.

            He’s right. The only thing we can do is voice our opinion by not buying merch or going to games. Nothing more.

          • peetypuck

            He’s been going out of his way to provoke me for the last few days. If I said white he’d disagree and say it’s black.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Who are you again? Font remember specifically discussing anything with you. Been posting more than usual in the summer as I have been dead at work

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Look out behind you!

          • peetypuck

            Are you feeling okay? You seem a bit disturbed.

          • peetypuck

            Don’t tell me. Tell the person who suggests that a “large portion of this fanbase” will be driven away.

          • peetypuck

            Traitor !!!
            You only support the Sens during the good times. When times get rough, you run away.

          • zippy

            Main you are a pain Peety. The more I read I think you’re not really thinking.

            He would support the team if Melnyk spent more. Period.

            We think owners should be willing to spend. To ice a really competitve team, not just marginally competitive.

            But you get what you get. When it comes down to it we have a team. Halifax would love to be in our position.

          • peetypuck

            Do you realize the team is rebuilding? Of course we aren’t very competitive. Why do you expect him to spend now? Let Bryan Murray get us the horses to compete first.
            Whatever their reasons, Alfie and Spezza made their decisions to leave which only extends our time rebuilding until we can replace them. Have a little patience. Like I originally said, Melnyk will spend when the Sens are competitive. He can make a lot more money when the team goes a few rounds in the playoffs. And that’s all the reason a pinnypenching, moneygrubber needs.

          • zippy

            yes…but it’s frustrating

          • peetypuck

            Did you even read my original comment?
            As far as T-Charger goes he’s got a burr up his ass and he follows me around provoking me. I’m just treating him like the jerkoff that he is. He has a mental problem if you ask me.

          • Tooks

            Bad times created by the Owner, yes, why would we support that? If you support Melnyk for not spending to make us a contender, than you are the traitor for keeping us in mediocrity.

          • peetypuck

            Aren’t you the one that always puts down all of our players?
            Now, point out where I said that I support Melnyk. I support my Sens through thick and thin. Big difference, don’t you think?

          • Frank

            You basically just sank your own argument with this post.

            You can support your Sens by cheering for them. You can show Melnyk your displeasure by not giving him your money.

          • Tooks

            Who owns the Sens… Thats who you are supporting, do you think you actually support the players?

    • Brutus5247

      Its business. So you buy a few tickets a year and you think that you should call the shots? The guy has had hard financial times and is trying to get back on his feet. Trump had the same problem. Do you get back into the red by throwing away money randomly, or diligently budgeting to make a profit. I hold nothing against him. Go bitch to his wife for probably taking half of what he has. For the few fans who aren’t going to buy tickets…you are no big loss.

      • Frank

        We are a HUGE loss. Go ahead and support a guy who doesn’t support his own team. That makes a hell of a lot of sense

        • Brutus5247

          So support means lose money to make us happy? You certainly have the option to switch allegiance to Toronto and buy their tickets.
          If Eugene raises ticket prices by 10% people flip. Toronto does it nobody even blinks.

          • Frank

            No, support means try your best to ice a Cup winning team. In the last 4-5 years, the Sens have drafted and developed some very good players. How do you win? By insulating them with skilled veterans. Euge is not willing to do that. Instead, he drives those players out of town

          • Doc

            Another guy that has it backwards.

            The on-ice product is what put people in the seats, not the other way around. THAT’S business.

            I haven’t seen anyone advocate spending freely on free agents. We as fans want commitment from management and the owner that they will do their best to ice a competitive team. Right now, this is not the case.

        • peetypuck

          Are you seven years old?

      • SENSible Voice

        Season ticket sales went down by a few hundreds last season and that was enough to cause jitters with managmeent. Don’t kid yourself, if we lose more star players, those numbers will go down furthermore and that will have a severe impact on the bottom line. In business, you have to spend to make money. So far, Melnyk has not been re-investing any of the increased revenues he’s gained. As fans, we don’t care if his other businesses are not doing well, this one is and it’s up to him to liquidate the ones that are moneypits.

  • WaitingSince92

    Don’t know how there are still Melnyk defenders out there. Time to get it in your head that there are perfectly valid reasons to be angry, as a fan.

    “It’s been a lifelong dream of mine to win a Stan- er… to have the lowest cost per point in the league.”

    WOO HOO!

    • FistsofNeil25

      but but… he’s going to spend when the time is right! Just wait and see!

      • Doc

        Somewhere in Barbados, Uncle Euge is reading this smirking.

      • WaitingSince92

        Yeah, just wait until after the three year rebuild! Wait, when was that again?

        • FistsofNeil25

          rebuild? I thought they were just re-tooling? lol

          • WaitingSince92

            Sweet, we’re not in rebuild mode, it’s just a perpetual retool!

          • FistsofNeil25

            Well don’t forget man, Melnyk expects to make the playoffs every year on this budget. He said that himself so you gotta believe!! Once you get in anything can happen right?! Riiiiiiight….

        • Doc

          The best one was after the trade deadline where he publicly stated that he showed that he’s willing to spend by getting Hemsky in a trade. Lol…

          The balls on this guy.

          • FistsofNeil25

            the worst part is I think there were a large portion of fans who actually believe his bullshit.

          • WaitingSince92

            I always thought the worst part was how he thinks all fans are reactionary idiots who know nothing about hockey. That condescending way he equates spending $ on players to spending $ stupidly on players.

            Don’t get me all wound up before work!

          • Doc

            Hehe no worries.

            Been there, done that, got the T-shirt (and peach flavoured yoghurt).

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Well judging by this thread there is

    • WaitingSince92

      I still would like to start a COST-PER-POINT, COST-PER-POINT chant for next year’s first home game.

      Just think, most teams are trying to get a up, but there’s way less competition to get the most point per million spent!

      • Doc

        I would be all over that one.

        But only when we would be losing. Like right at the end of the third period.

        Love it.

      • CaMo

        GREAT IDEA. I say we save it for the end of game’s we’re losing and really rock it at the end of the season if we are low in the standings.

      • Hax

        Yeah let’s draw even more attention to the embarrassing situation and make the rest of the world think our fans are whining bitches.

        • Doc

          How about:

          WE-LOVE-MELNYK *clap clap, clap clap clap*

          Thoughts?

          • Hax

            I’m just saying that we don’t need extra reasons for other fans to make fun of Ottawa. Go to the games (or don’t) and watch the game. A protest chant like that only gets us on the highlight reel for the wrong reasons. How many times have you laughed at other teams or their fans for chants to fire the coach etc?

          • Doc

            Not once, because there’s probably a valid reason behind it.

          • Hax

            Valid or not it just looks bad on the fan base IMO. Not suggesting we shouldn’t be upset or anything of the sort – I just don’t like drawing “public” attention to it without context.

          • peetypuck

            If it looks bad on the team it might also embarrass our players. That could lead to more of them asking to be traded.

          • Hax

            Fair point.

            It’s a drastic measure at the least. It *could* force Melnyk to do something but I doubt it. And if it doesn’t then it accomplishes nothing positive. Melnyk is a stubborn bastard – if people pay for tickets he won’t care if they’re cheering on the team or chanting against him. If you really want to protest then don’t buy tickets/merch.

            IMO of course – not telling anyone how to think/act.

          • peetypuck

            Yeah, he didn’t seem to care when there was a large Laff crowd booing Alfie, as long as they bought his tickets and lots of beer.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Sorry Hax but I enjoyed every second of the waffle throwing at the ACC.

          • Hax

            Right – me too because I was laughing at it. I didn’t say “wow I respect that team and those fans”.

            Again, not saying fans shouldn’t be pissed or find ways to let Melnyk know, I just don’t want to give leaf fans another reason to mock us.

          • FistsofNeil25

            I don;t think anyone was serious about a cost per point chant.

            Fans are too timid to chant go sens go lol

          • CaMo

            Who cares if other fans make fun of it? If it sends a message to Eugene that’s good enough for me, i dont give two F’s what leafs or habs fans say about us they have problems of their own. These chants get publicity and are heard. It’s better than just being a bunch of pussies and taking Melnyks shit. Let him hear us. If he wants to own the team he can deal with unpleasantries.

  • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

    #thefansfault

  • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

    So prediction time….

    This thread will hit 2300 posts before chirp puts up a new one!

    • SensChirp

      I have a ChirpEd piece that I may use today. The topic- What will teams offer for Spezza? I forget, have we talked about that yet??

      • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

        ;)

      • FistsofNeil25

        Don’t do it Chirp. It will just be depressing to see all the fans post trade proposal’s with like Josi+Forsberg+1st and Etem+DSP+10th.

        • Doc

          That first one cracks me up every time lol.

          • peetypuck

            Think about it. Nashville has a lot of money tied up in Weber, Jones, Josi and Rinne. In two years Jones is going to want a big raise. Meanwhile he doesn’t have a #1 centre or much offence. Poile might just conclude to move Josi for one of the centres up for grabs this summer. Or not.

  • aegiszx

    BM trying to lowball Hemsky… He will get the money he deserves, presumably 4M/4 Years at least.

    • Alfieformayor11

      who knows… Hemsky says 5.5… Murray says 3.3

      sounds like a perfect setup to meet in the middle at 4.4

    • SENSible Voice

      Who knows how that offer was presented. Was it a “take it or leave it” approach or a starting point? If the latter, then it didn’t matter how much BM was offering, Hemsky was not wanting to play here. No one involved in negotiations expects the best offer to be tabled as the starting point.

  • SensChirp

    I don’t know if it was because I asked people to click on ads yesterday or the madness that was the comment section but traffic and ad revenue were both unusually high.

    So with that in mind, click on the ads and Melnyk stinks!

    • Doc

      It’s all about your kid’s education Chirp.

      We do it for the kid.

    • spezzerman

      im taking a trip to montreal, getting flatter (ha! “flatter” I who am I kidding) abs, growing a manly beard to have it groomed

    • Frank

      It was our birthday gift to you, buddy! :)

    • zippy

      Porter link was working yesterday. Not today for some reason

    • BeJamin

      Careful about saying that. Google Analytics will pick it up and ding you. It’s directly in the TOS as something you’re not allowed to do. There is reason for it obviously (if we all clicked a bunch of times every day, lots of $, but also pretty obvious fraud).

      • SensChirp

        Shhhh

      • CaMo

        wah, this guy knows his shit.

  • FistsofNeil25

    Chirp do you think the Sens will make a call on Parenteau again? You said they had interest during the season, and depending on the return for Spezza and what they are able to do in free agency, they’ll be looking for a top six forward or two.

    Colorado is maybe looking for a cap dump so they have more dough to throw at Stastny and O’Reilly. Sens may be looking to get to the cap floor.

    • Tooks

      I think they will and they should, how interested are they really tho, they might just call to see what COL is asking for P.A.

      And again, its a risk, I would love to have him longterm but with only 2 years left, odds are he doesnt re-sign here and we would have given up some assets to get him here. Plus he’s 31, I thought he was younger…damn.

      • zippy

        At 31, it probably depends on how many miles he has left. If he plays a 200 ft game, we might be able to keep him. Spezza and Hemsky’s rights and a pick (or a prospect) for ROR and Parenteau?

        Just spitballing it. Haven’t looked at the numbers.

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          Would have to be a hell of a pick got them to take that

        • Doc

          Not even a remote chance we get ROR now. They just elected club salary arbitration, which will help them lower his next contract so they can keep him.

          Plus, Hemsky’s rights are worth very little, and you would have to add a LOT to Spezza for Colorado to even think about trading him.

          I would be ecstatic if we could land ROR, but as of now, there is very little chance that happens.

      • FistsofNeil25

        Why would you like to have him long term? He’s nothing special. He’s definitely not a difference maker. He just seems like he would be a decent back-up plan if we strike out on both Hemsky and Michalek. He would just be a two year gap filler.

        • zippy

          If he’s not an upgrade on Michalek, or better than Stone or Hoffman, then why bother? I didn’t know that.

          He’s from Hull. Several almost 20 goal seasons. More assists than goals.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Because we may need to reach the cap floor if we don’t take on much salary from the Spezza trade and if we strike out on free agents.

            It’s not about whether or not he’s better than Hoffman and Stone. We need to add a couple support players that will help insulate our young players.

          • Tooks

            I agree with you, its gonna be hard to get to the cap floor, We will have to overpay some 3rd liners and hope we get a couple big contracts back for Spezza.

        • Tooks

          Well ya that why I said he’s 31, didnt know that. I would like to have him longer than 2 years if we give up a young guy for him, which COL probably wants.

          Its not like Greening + PW46 will get us PAP.

          • FistsofNeil25

            If they’re trying to move Parenteau right now it’s likely to get rid of his salary. He’s expendable to them now at 4M per season.

            They have Duchene, MacKinnon, Landeskog, O’Reilly, a returning Tanguay, McGinn and they’re hoping to have Stastny back as well. There’s no room for Parenteau anymore and both O’Reilly and Stastny are going to command big contracts.

            He could probably be had for cheep. They likely aren’t looking to take much salary back in return.

            They need a top four defenseman but they aren’t going to get one for Parenteau that’s for sure.

  • Dirtysweetness

    1200!

  • Senatollah

    The big issue is will players want to come here after the rebuild/re-tool is over. There are other teams with wacko owners in all leagues, but if we want to be excited for the Sens future have to ask will we be able to get the right players?

    Issues are:
    a) Nickle and diming marginal NHLers is one thing but established players publicly like Hemsky, Alfie, and not coddling star players like Spezza (rightly or wrongly) could make it that much harder to attract players in the future.

    b) Add to that the Central Bank wanting to keep our dollar much lower than the US$, with our higher taxes (approx 10-15% of the paycheck plus no tax credits for expenses) makes all Canadian teams less attractive.

    c) Plus, based on all the comments here the past few weeks i would presume that all the goodwill for the over payment on contracts to nice guys like Mike Fisher including trading them to their preferable destinations instead of the best place for the Sens has dried up.

    So if UFA’s don’t see Ottawa as a decent option, the only way to improve is draft amazingly or make trades. To make a trade you have to give to get (unless you trade with the Islanders). At some point the Sens won’t have anything more to give…

  • whammer44

    Saw the comments were at 1200 and then read some of the threads…sigh…its going to be a long couple of weeks!

    • FistsofNeil25

      We’ll all get through this together!

      • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

        Yogurt fight!!!

        • FistsofNeil25

          Unlike you guys, I would never waste good peach yogurt

          • whammer44

            Thats the one yogurt I would throw…at least now we are raising the level of conversation.

          • Doc

            I’m with you bud.

            It’s the equivalent of Hemsky’s rights in the yogurt world.

          • whammer44

            hahaha

        • Frank

          Bring it on! I’ve got YOP!!!!

      • whammer44

        Or we all kill each other!

    • Tooks

      fight?

      • whammer44

        I can tell by your comment you obviously support Melnyk’s non-spending and now I will fight you

      • bluebuyyoo

        Number of posts was over 1200 :-)

  • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

    Let’s play a game… Come up with acronyms

    N o
    B ig
    C ontracts

    C heap
    B astard in
    C harge

    T he
    S pending
    N uked

    • Frank

      M any
      E xpected
      L osing
      N HL seasons
      Y ou
      K now

    • whammer44

      S orry
      P eople
      E ugene
      Z uckydee
      Z ucks
      A **

  • Senatollah

    Wonder whats worse…
    Sens losing their whole 2nd line due to internal budget
    -Spezza to be traded, should bring back something
    -Hemsky allowed to walk, no overpayment
    -Michalek past his prime, loss of outside speed can be replaced internally

    VS

    Colorado having to sign their top 2 centres with $26m available cap space but struggling with their own internal budget, which could see one walk as UFA and the other offer sheeted for ‘future considerations’.

    • Frank

      Avs will still ice a very good young team and would get a huge package for ROR in a trade. I’ll take that any day over a cap-floor team

      • Brutus5247

        Remember they were absolute bottom feeders and they made use of their drafting. We haven’t been bottom feeders so our draft picks haven’t been top 3 where you get the best choice.

        • Frank

          That’s why the retool was useless. It should have been a full rebuild. “Retooling” simply means being mediocre for a long time. If they had moved Spezza and Alfie 3 years ago, we’d likely be in the Avs’ situation with a top 5 pick for at least 1 or 2 years

          • Brutus5247

            Great idea if you have the income to fund it.

          • Doc

            Funds for a rebuild?

            :|

          • Frank

            Frustrating, isn’t it?

    • FistsofNeil25

      Do they have an internal budget anymore? When Roy took over as head coach it was under the circumstances that there would be no more internal budget.

      I think they’re trying to get all those guys to take hometown discounts so they can build the best team possible. They have to be careful how much they given Stastny and O’Reilly long term. MacKinnon is going to be their best player in a year or two and he’ll be up for a new contract.

      Landeskog, Varlamov and Duchene’s new contracts kick in this summer at 5.6M, 5.9M and 6M. It would make sense for them to get Stastny and O’Reilly to sign for as close as possible to those figures whether they’re a budget team or not, similar to what Chicago did with Toews, Kane and Keith. They all took hometown discounts to give them the best chance to win.

    • Tooks

      Not sure why people say “2nd line” Spezza, MM9 and Hemsky was our 1st line and would still be today were they still here.

      Sens losing their whole first line is much worse…

      I dont see COL having any issues with signing ROR and PS26, especially if they dump PAP.

  • 383

    The doom and gloom along with the unessacary negativity around here is a bit much. Let’s keep in mind we still have one of the best prospect pools going and I fully plan on Andy and Lehner having a bounce back year.

    Who gives a fuck about Ales Hemsky, guy is a band aid. As for Spezza, we’ll have to see what the return is. It’s all about trusting BM at this point.

    Bring back MM9 and trade Prince for Parenteau (guy wants out of bingo anyway and isnt cracking our team next year) and your 2nd line doesn’t look all that bad.

    16-7-6
    MM9-93-PA

    That’s not including what we’ll get back for Spezza, which I hope is a top 4 dman.

    People need to reserve their judgements and opinions til after the draft/after July.

    What you prefer, sign Hemsky, sign Spezza?!

    Change was needed and that’s what they are doing.

    • Senatollah

      A top 4 dman for spezza is a bad return. Make it a top 2

      • Doc

        Wishful thinking at best.

  • Brutus5247

    It seems that a number of delusional fans thinks that the TEAM ramdomly should spend more. In society there are those who have more residual income. There are fans who buy season tickets and some who buy a few. There are people who buy new Mercedes or Jags and those who buy an old beater that just runs.
    There are 30 NHL teams whose mandate is to provide good entertainment. 29 of these teams are going to be losers in the end.
    Teams have various amounts to spend depending on fan base, ticket prices and attendance. Yes, it may affect who wants to play here but unless people are prepared to pay more and come to the games there will likely be no major increase in spending.
    We are a BUDGET team, get used to it! The object for the team is to make money so they can continue operation. The budget limits overspending which is a good business practice.
    When you are 25th in spending and end up 20th in the league then you have got value for the money.
    Folks it’s a business for entertainment with NO GUARANTEE OF WINNING!

    • Doc

      You seem to lack the basic understanding of how a business works.

      Enjoy your mediocrity and losing your favourite players to other teams.

      • Brutus5247

        Last time I checked a business was designed to make money. Do you actually think that fans would pay more for tickets and come to more games if we won 70% of our games? Thats what it takes to increase revenue.

        • FistsofNeil25

          70% of 82 games is 57 wins. I think the CTC would be sold out if we won that many games in a season. We would be Stanley Cup contenders.

          • Brutus5247

            Then I suggest the team moves to Hamilton if thats how fickle the fans are.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Yes Hamilton… The epitome of disposable income

          • Brutus5247

            Hate to say it but probably would be better fans who would support their team without conditions.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            My whole family is from the area… I repeat.. With what money spare change they found on the Street?

          • Brutus5247

            The point is if the people don’t support it then he should move it!

          • Doc

            He should sell it, yeah I agree.

            NHL wouldn’t allow the team to be moved, but wouldn’t have a problem with a different owner (nor would we).

          • Brutus5247

            I’m sure the Nordiques and old Jets had the same feeling. The NHL is all about money. If they have a better place they would move it in a heartbeat.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Phoenix and Florida must be cash cows!

          • Doc

            No they wouldn’t. There’s a process for that.

            Look at Phoenix for crying out loud. You’re just talking out of your ass now.

          • Brutus5247

            There is a process for everything.

          • Doc

            Except your reasoning, it seems.

          • Brutus5247

            OOH a flamer!

          • Doc

            No, just someone with common sense.

          • Brutus5247

            But no business sense.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            Bwahahahhahaha Hahahha

          • Brutus5247

            Best you have?

          • peetypuck

            Good one !

          • Doc

            You don’t see the irony in your comment?

            Here, since you didn’t seem to catch it the first time:

            http://www.freshbusinessthinking.com/articles_print.php?CID=20&AID=9305

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            #thefansfault

          • CaMo

            Winnipeg moved the first time because people were too poor to support the team. Ottawa doesnt have that problem. If people aren’t coming to the games it’s because they aren’t happy with the on ice product.

          • Doc

            Get out of here with your logic!

          • peetypuck

            We have a perfect sociology case here. We have a couple of bullies that don’t like others disagreeing with them so they systematically seek out and try to intimidate any dissenters. Then we have the weakling sisters that want to hang around with them. So to show their undying loyalty they join up and stick their 2 cent comments in to harass the victim… One good punch in the nose to the leader always sends the whole gang running.

          • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

            So he would move the team annually?? Seeing as nowhere will support a shit product for more than a season or two

          • Doc

            1- Build shitty product
            2- ???
            3- Profit!

          • Doc

            I’ll just leave this here for your convenience:

            http://www.freshbusinessthinking.com/articles_print.php?CID=20&AID=9305

          • Doc

            So your lack of knowledge in how a business works make us fickle?

          • FistsofNeil25

            Fickle? Every fan base is the same with the exception of Toronto and Montreal. Did you follow Boston and Chicago before they were contenders? Their arenas were barely half full.

          • FistsofNeil25

            Toronto is the only market that will pay big money to watch a shitty team every night.

        • Frank

          Yes, they would and if that were the case, they’d likely make a deep playoff run which would… guess what… INCREASE REVENUE

          • peetypuck

            Thank you, thank you.

        • Doc

          Yes, Yes they would. That’s actually how it works.

          Build a good product, in this case it’s the team (on-ice product), and people will buy your product (or attend games).

          Pretty simple actually.

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          Yes actually that is exactly how it would work

    • Frank

      Wow…

    • Hax

      So that’s one vote for the “come and then we’ll build it” approach.

      My vote goes to the “build it and we will come” approach personally.

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      How people actually think this is how business works baffles me

    • CaMo

      If I am paying to see a budget team play , you better believe that’s all the money Eugene will get from me that day. I’ve mastered sneaking in Cold certifieds into CTC. No 10$ beers for this guy, Suck it Melnyk.

    • CaMo

      Have you ever heard of spending money to make money? it’s that simple.

    • whammer44

      But wouldn’t be nice to know you had a chance?

    • SENSible Voice

      That’s just it, we should not be a budget team. This team generates above average revenues through a lucrative TV deal and above average season ticket sales and attendance. You hiring good mananagement people to spend that money on players that make you a contender. Of course there are no guarantees of winning but at least if it doesn’t work out, you can replace the coach or GM. In our case, the problem is replacing the owner.

  • Doc

    10 days away from Draft and still very little news.

    Bleh.

  • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

    FLA, CBJ, NSH, NYI all apparently on Jason Spezza’s no-trade list, per Dreger.

    • Doc

      YEAH! WHAT HE SAID!

      *grabs pitchfork*

    • FBP

      There goes my contest entry.

    • whammer44

      A shameless attempt to pad the comments section by posting one word at a time!

  • Frank

    FLA, CBJ, NSH, NYI all apparently on Jason Spezza’s no-trade list, per Dreger

    With that being said, if Nashville or Florida come in with a big offer, I can totally see Spezza waiving to go rather than stay here

    • FistsofNeil25

      That’s where Murray has to grow some grapefruits and play hardball for once. If Florida or Nashville come in with the best offer for Spezza, Murray better say you can either stay here or waive to go to one of these places.

      Murray doesn’t owe Spezza anything. He has to do what’s best for the team.

    • CaMo

      It’s going to be Anaheim or St.Louis I think anyways. They are the teams that have the kind of return we’re looking for + Interest in Spez. I could see Dallas throwing together a decent package but I dont know what their money situation is.

    • Frank

      Saw this on Twitter and chuckled:

      Jason Spezza doesn’t really want the pressure of playing in a big hockey
      market but also doesn’t want to go to FLA, CBJ, NSH, NYI. Got it.

    • CaMo

      Nashville just made it public that their first round pick is available for a top forward too… Damn.

      Retweeted by Steve Lloyd

      JoshuaCooper ‏@JoshuaCooper 6m

      Poile said there’s a possibility the Predators would trade the first round pick … Likely for a top forward

  • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

    Guys I’ve got a phone I’m designing… It doesn’t do anything.. Hell The screen doesn’t even turn on

    Want to buy a bunch of them so I can make a better phone

    • CaMo

      Why don’t you just use parts from the broken phone and spend some of your own money to make it function properly? That’s the better business model. Because otherwise you might have disgruntled customers who will never buy another unit from you again… ya Cheap Prick.

    • Hax

      You must think those guys at Apple are idiots for spending so much on R&D.

      • Doc

        Clearly Brutus made his sales pitch and they were blown away.

        • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

          It will work guys.. I’m going to have three models

          Curly
          Larry
          and Moe

          • Doc

    • whammer44

      Is it shiny?

    • Brutus5247

      Call the leafs, they’ll buy it!

  • FistsofNeil25

    So do we think Murray is serious when he says he won’t deal Spezza to an eastern conference team? Because that would be incredibly stupid to eliminate 14 teams from the running.

    • Tcharger – Ryan-For-51

      It would seem to be right up their alley lately

      So is it fair to assume the other six teams are the Canadian ones?

      • CaMo

        Definitely Winnipeg, Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary. I would guess that Spezza left Montreal and Toronto off his list knowing that a trade to those places is slim to none.

      • Tooks

        IMO it is stupid but I understand him not trading in division but the other conf in the east, I would have no problem with it. But none of them have shown any interest in Spezza according to BM and credible sources (Friedman, Mendez, BMack)

    • CaMo

      I think it has to depend on the return. If a team like NYR want to make an offer, the return has to be better than what Anaheim is offering. I don’t think he will go to a team in our devision at all, but I could see him ending up in the metro if the price is right.

      • FistsofNeil25

        He should be traded to the team that offers the best deal for the Sens. I don’t care if that team is Toronto and I don’t care if it’s Phoenix. Let’s get the best return.

        • Don Ciccio

          I agree

        • Tooks

          Can only deal with teams that have interest, so far not many. Only 2-3 teams have serious offers and those offers are not even what Murray expects back but he has no choice.

    • Doc

      To be honest, I doubt there’s more than 2-3 teams that are actually interested.

      • Tooks

        Yep and in order of interest:
        STL
        ANA
        NSH

        • CaMo

          DAL?

  • SensChirp

    Sorry to interrupt. 1300 comments is pretty damn impressive though. New post up here

    http://senschirp.ca/news/milan-michalek-worth/

    • FistsofNeil25

      We coulda hit 2000 by the end of the day.

  • esk

    i been saying this all along..spezza is frustrated with the quality of his linemates..especially this past season where he played with greening all year long.

  • NickofTime

    Not surprised about what May Day said, this team’s demise is all about Melnyk losing money. Just read that Melnyk is now selling his prized horses too. He obviously has made a number of huge mistakes in his business endevours & divorce & now the hockey team is paying for it. This would have been the yr to keep Spezza & re-sign both Michalek & Hemsky to see what they could do along with the rest of the team but Melnyk’s financial problems has killed any chance of a decent team & season next yr.

    Very glad to see that BM is not offering SDC a one way contract & would like to see the smurf move on & out of the organization. This team needs bigger, tougher players not small soft players who get pushed around & knocked off the puck easily. I like the return of Berglund in a Spezza deal, he has good size & Ottawa needs size down the middle with Spezza leaving.