Just cancel the season already! Alfie to retire and move to front office.

Nice synopsis Chirp,

while the stupidy of all this is baffling to everyday fans, it is clear that the Owners have made their best offer, and have now made arrangements with sponsors to cancel the season. ( which was preicted by amny of us )
In the end, when individual players are making more than most of the NHL teams, we have an issue.

Yes the debate will go on, on who is to blame, but the rich can go after, and pay the salaries, while the poor cannot afford to open their doors.

In the end we will lose a season, and now the clear question for me is who will be the ones who stand to lose the most from a cancelled season.
While the easy answer is both sides, the reality is the Owners will go on making money and business as usual on their primary focus, the businees that made them money in the first place, not the one that has been losing them money.

The top 20% of the NHL players will no doubt miss the year, and have plenty to fall back on from previous money made, enorsments ie Sidney Crosby. So I really could not care less about what his thoughts are on the dispute b/c he may miss a season, but he will undoubtedly be none the worse off when his career continues, and will have more than enough money than he will ever need.

Who I am concerned about, and want to hear from, are the Condra's, the Winchesters, the Daugovins, the Regin's who have not earned enough yet, and whose careers will not be as long or profitable as those 20%.
That other 50% of the NHL players had better wake up, and make a voice for yourselves, because you, and those other workers whose livlihood depend on the NHL, are the real ones who will suffer, and are paying in real dollars, for Fehr and his group of 20% and their stubborness.
For the love of the game, and your futures, please make yourselves heard now, b/c in a year or 2 you will all be like a Josh Langfeld... who you ask? that is my point!

@Miguel, WInchester has already made a few million. Hardly suffering.

As I keep telling my friend, must be really hard to go do the groceries with a million dollar salary. Even if it's $400,000 after taxes, that milk still costs $2.79, bread still costs a buck or two and so on. Prices don't go up at stores simply because a minute amount of people make a ton of money. So...these athletes have MORE than enough money to buy food and shelter and maybe even square some away and they are suffering?

Please.

We WILL lose the season and if "we" need to we will lose the 2013-2014 as well. The players MUST understand they will lose. The players can NEVER win. A 50/50 split will happen and the players will give in. Not this year perhaps but maybe next year or the year after.

The owners hold the keys to the arenas, the arenas aren't getting unlocked until the players sign on the dotted line.
It's up to them if it's this year, next year or five or ten years from now.

Quoting TookieIs100PercentRight:

@Miguel, WInchester has already made a few million. Hardly suffering.

As I keep telling my friend, must be really hard to go do the groceries with a million dollar salary. Even if it's $400,000 after taxes, that milk still costs $2.79, bread still costs a buck or two and so on. Prices don't go up at stores simply because a minute amount of people make a ton of money. So...these athletes have MORE than enough money to buy food and shelter and maybe even square some away and they are suffering?

Please.

We WILL lose the season and if "we" need to we will lose the 2013-2014 as well. The players MUST understand they will lose. The players can NEVER win. A 50/50 split will happen and the players will give in. Not this year perhaps but maybe next year or the year after.

The owners hold the keys to the arenas, the arenas aren't getting unlocked until the players sign on the dotted line.
It's up to them if it's this year, next year or five or ten years from now.

"square some away " ?

Decent article by LeBrun:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/20265/the-damage-this-time-will-be-permanent

The last lost season was to get the salary cap. We all knew the league could not survive without it considering about 73% of league revenue was going to players salary prior to the Cap.

The NHL got the salary cap.. the PA got everything else.. shorter UFA, etc.

The PA brought in Fehr to "WIN" this CBA. Fehr doesn't know hockey. Doesn't care about hockey. Doesn't care about the damage that will be done to the league... he is here to "win". A player agent said.. his end date is Dec 2013.

I don't support either side in this. BUT the players should be entitled to get their full salary from the contracts they signed. The NHL came with 'make whole' to do that -- but I believe not in yr 1.. probably because of a shortened season. The NHL also increased it's revenue sharing. So why can't the PA negotiate off of that.

I also don't understand why contracts have to be limited to 5 years either. If they put a variance in the contracts of 5% or whatever it is.. that would eliminate the front-end loaded deals. (which by the way some players will be losing out on the big bucks with no season this year) Contracts could be for any term they wanted.

Some fans are extremely angry (like me)... but there are others that just don't care. That's what the Owners and the players should fear the most... fans that just don't care.

We have heard Molson Coors is going to demand compensation from the NHL for lost revenue due to the lockout... are other sponsors going to do that?

This won't end good for anybody.. and I can't believe both sides are that stubborn or that stupid to lose a season.

With more & more players still heading to Europe.. makes me think the PA will not budge. They are forcing the NHL to cancel the season..

Quoting Sensnation:

Quoting miguel:

@ TookieIs100PercentRight

in 4 years Winchester made 2,600,000 gross,
almost 1/2 is taxed taking that to about 1.5 mil,
about 15% goes to agent and Union so now we are talking about 1.2 Mil, net.

So if you think that a 25 year old who is accustomed to a 50K paycheque every month, and accumulated bills for this lifestyle can go through the rest of their lives with a normal pay and normal job, I think your mistaken.

And to this point, players like him should be the ones that are most concerne, b/c I am 100% certain, he would rather go back to playing hockey, than be joining the rank an file working 9-5 making a fraction of that amount.

Those players had better speak up now while they have a fighting chance, or let younger cheaper talent walk in and take it away from them,

that 25% of the NHL are the ones who will be paying the most for this year long strike

That is my point.

Worrying about the marginal 4th liners who will barely have an NHL career in the first place is ridiculous. I don't watch the NHL for the Winchesters of the world and he was 50-50 to not even be in the NHL this season anyways. If Winchester can't stand by his brothers in their fight for the future of their union and the players to come into the NHL, he can take his talents where they belong ... in a tier 2 European div.

Actually he is playing in Europe right now. I had no idea he went over.. guess it wasn't big news...

Quoting miguel:

@ TookieIs100PercentRight

in 4 years Winchester made 2,600,000 gross,
almost 1/2 is taxed taking that to about 1.5 mil,
about 15% goes to agent and Union so now we are talking about 1.2 Mil, net.

So if you think that a 25 year old who is accustomed to a 50K paycheque every month, and accumulated bills for this lifestyle can go through the rest of their lives with a normal pay and normal job, I think your mistaken.

And to this point, players like him should be the ones that are most concerne, b/c I am 100% certain, he would rather go back to playing hockey, than be joining the rank an file working 9-5 making a fraction of that amount.

Those players had better speak up now while they have a fighting chance, or let younger cheaper talent walk in and take it away from them,

that 25% of the NHL are the ones who will be paying the most for this year long strike

That is my point.

I'm going to have to disagree with this post.. if the numbers you're giving are correct, I don't think winchester or any other player with similar income has gone out and bought 10million dollar houses or million dollar cars.


The fact is these players pay people to manage their money, and if he's only made a million and a half total, he likely doesn't have ANY significant bills to pay and probably has good amount of savings


The guys with low end contracts and fewer years in the league probably have less monetary worries not more


Mo money mo problems

It's looking more and more that the owners want to break the union and start from scratch. Should the players get paid what they signed for, absolutely. But it seems to me the Ranchers are getting reay for the slaughter of their Cattle, in the words of Jim Devellano. The owners are going to take control and if the players were smart they would accept what the owners have offered. And besides if they do accept what the owners have offered, something tells me the owners will screw it up again anyways.

Actually Connor, a lot of the players don't manage their money. Not sure how old you are but I can tell you that most people don't become financially savvy in their early twenties. Further to that, the ones that do put money aside on investmetns have likely done as poorly if not worse than every other person attempting to invest in a shitty economy...

Want to take a guess at how much money Phillips has thrown out the window on investments over his career? He got screwed by the same guy that Heatley got screwed by and has had a few businesses fold. Investments only work if the person advising you is A) good and B) right

Most players spend their first paycheck on something exorbitant like a new car etc. some are smart with their money and squirrel it away but a lot of them think they will have long careers, mistakenly thinking the gravy train will last forever. Most young players have stacks of cash lying around and have no concept of reality.

Human nature is to spend what you make.

I think its funny how much people on here cry about the players and their salaries

Get over it

Quoting TookieIs100PercentRight:

@Miguel, WInchester has already made a few million. Hardly suffering.

As I keep telling my friend, must be really hard to go do the groceries with a million dollar salary. Even if it's $400,000 after taxes, that milk still costs $2.79, bread still costs a buck or two and so on. Prices don't go up at stores simply because a minute amount of people make a ton of money. So...these athletes have MORE than enough money to buy food and shelter and maybe even square some away and they are suffering?

Please.

We WILL lose the season and if "we" need to we will lose the 2013-2014 as well. The players MUST understand they will lose. The players can NEVER win. A 50/50 split will happen and the players will give in. Not this year perhaps but maybe next year or the year after.

The owners hold the keys to the arenas, the arenas aren't getting unlocked until the players sign on the dotted line.
It's up to them if it's this year, next year or five or ten years from now.

Asimov made you say this.

Interesting article on TSN I thought

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409424

So with the expectation that the year is gone, who would you re-sign from this list of Ottawa UFAs.

F: Alfredsson, Latendresse, Regin, Daugavins (RFA), Condra (RFA), Da Costa (RFA), Hoffman (RFA)

D: Gonchar, Lundin (RFA), Wiercioch (RFA), Borowiecki (RFA), Benoit

G: Bishop

There are others but these are the ones I feel that have the potential to play in the NHL in 2013/14.

Personally I would let all the UFAs walk and look to the free agency market to replace them.

On the restricted front, I would like to keep WireCock, Borowiecki and Hoffman for sure and I would think long and hard about Da Costa and Condra but wouldn't cry about them moving on.

If the season is lost I think we see a significantly different Ottawa Senators for 2013/14.

We will be moving into a season where there is a potentially huge free agent pool and with a lot of cap space available.

Maybe the threat of WHA II would bring some sanity to this millionaire versus billionaire stand-off ?

teams in cities not controlled by the NHL ?

Brooklyn - Quebec - Hamilton - Atlanta - Seattle - San Diego - Cincinnatti - Cleveland - Kansas City ?

AND the European Division that the WHA originally planned ?

Is Gary Davidson still alive ?

The worst part of the NHL lockout, is not hearing this song every 2nd or 3rd night... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0skZvqLTiw

Best song ever? Top 3 with Cotton Eye Joe, and of course, a Day in the Life by the Beatles (a 3 way tie?!?).

Quoting MethotToMyMadness:

I can honestly say I'm not jealous of what the players make for a salary. They've worked hard growing up, training, playing, giving much of there time to the game. If they were good enough to make it to the NHL and the owners are willing to pay them, so be it.

I CAN say that I don't give a crap about there potential financial issues due to the lockout, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th liners, it makes no difference. The simple fact is, I have my own financials to take care of, just like everyone else.

If a player was silly enough to invest poorly or trust the wrong people with those decisions, it's a lesson learned. If they spent all there money on a big house and lots of cars and now cannot pay the insurances and everything else that goes with it... well that's something they should have thought about. You hear these stories of jackpot winners who do the same thing and then complain when they go bankrupt, do we get involved this deep in their lives?

I just think we as passionate fans are WAY to involved in the owners and players financial concerns and it's time to close that book and focus on something else.

Agreed, but the only ones who really have a chance at saving this season is the bottome half earners in the NHLPA.
Those are the ones that stand to lose the most, including their jobs. So again instead of hearing what Crosby, or Malkin or any of the top players have to say, I am suggesting that we hear what the bottom half of the players have to say.

Interesting to hear the hindsight of some of those players ara ALL saying now that they are out of the game and in retirement
Jason York,
Sean Simpson
Shean Donavan
Mark Recchi
Shawn Van Allen
All of them say they wish they could take back the time they lost, and all say he players should agree and play.
With all due respect to all of you, their opinion means way more than any of ours.

i would love to see a rich billionaire start up a WHA league. Those were some of the best hockey stories ever told.
It would wake up both the players, the owners, and best of all give the fans a choice of product, forcing these spoiled brats back to getting a deal done.

Quoting MethotToMyMadness:

Quoting miguel:

Agreed, but the only ones who really have a chance at saving this season is the bottome half earners in the NHLPA.
Those are the ones that stand to lose the most, including their jobs. So again instead of hearing what Crosby, or Malkin or any of the top players have to say, I am suggesting that we hear what the bottom half of the players have to say.

Interesting to hear the hindsight of some of those players ara ALL saying now that they are out of the game and in retirement
Jason York,
Sean Simpson
Shean Donavan
Mark Recchi
Shawn Van Allen
All of them say they wish they could take back the time they lost, and all say he players should agree and play.
With all due respect to all of you, their opinion means way more than any of ours.

I agree to that, my statement was geared more towards being tired of listening to the money talk, lol.

Amen to that brother!
no wonder the old school boys are bitter, they played for the love of the game only!
Bring on the WHA!

I was given inside information in the summer that an offer at the beginning of November would be good enough to build on and we'd see hockey by the middle of November. I contacted my source when the NHL had the strong offer right around that time, and then the players ignored it and then gave 3 different offers. I asked my source what this meant, and he just said buckle up, it'll be a long one now. I've now lost all hope.

Don't forget guys the bsens play tonight at 7 against the adirondack phantoms. Should be a stream available by then

Quoting Patrick 2.0:

Alfie is automatic: he wants to play, he plays. He wants to retire, he retires. His skill, leadership, heart, respect...he gets a free pass.

Latendresse, Regin, Daug, Costa, Gonch, Lundin (various levels of skills, but very replaceable).

Condra, Hoffman, Wier, Borow, Benoit, Bishop you sign. they are young, they have potential and trade value. You don't let them walk away for nothing (I debated about Condra and Benoit, but depth is good).

My working assumption was that Alfie would retire. Bishop I don't think will want to sign because he's going to be 3rd on our depth charts in six months time.

I like Benoit and I think with Gonchar going he could be valuable, but I wouldn't sign him based on youth - mainly because he isn't young.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHH!!!!!*p ulls out hair

Quoting Sandy:

Can't believe I'm saying this.. but an pretty interesting article by Eklund.... for what it was worth.. some of this actually makes sense.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?blogger_id=1

BOOYAH

Maybe the next proposal should be to move to a sixty game schedule permamently and scale back salaries 25% across the board to account for reduced games.

Fans and players routinely claim the season is too long and ultimately should result in longer careers for the elite players given they'll be playing less.

I'm sure this would never fly but as a fan, I could handle a shortened season and potentially a better product.

Sttttrrreeeaaaa ammmm

2-1 baby Sens after one period. really impressed with grant.

Grant with his 3rd of the year and eckford scores his 3rd as well. Silfverberg, cowick, Benoit and dzurzinski all have an assist

Zibby gets his first ahl goal!

Quoting The Apostle:

I've not being paying that much attention to Bingo - how has Claesson been playing and what sort of dman is he? Physical, positionally sound?

Claesson was drafted mainly as a stay at home defenceman, who can contribute occasionally offensively. Last year he had 7 points in 41 games for Djurgarden which was 3rd amongst defenceman in within the team. Late into the WJC tournament last year, he also started playing heavier minutes because of defensive capabilities was finally recognized by the coach.

So far right now with the B-Sens he has been quitely effective defencemen, who has not made any glaring mistakes yet, and has slowly racked up some assists without us noticing, which is always a good thing.

Heck he was part of the brawl today; nothing is more fun than watching a European rookie getting involved in hockey brawls.

On a side note Puempel scored again today, he is currently second in the league in goals scored.

Surprise surprise Matt Puempel scored. If he stays healthy he should contend for the goal scoring title. That's all that kid does

Also stone got his 1st goal of the season, he's off to a great start this season

Nice one Ian white, Ryan Whitney etc.

Players should learn to shut the hell up...they embarass them selves and hockey players as a whole when they speak publicly about this.

Not sure if people saw this. Daugs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu12ap98oJQ

Parts of an article by an Oilers blogger from HB:

"What exactly is Donald Fehr's agenda? It's not to get the players as much money as possible, because if it was, there would have been an agreement already. $300mil in lost wages and counting. If we go an entire season, players will lose $1.8bil or so from the NHL.

If money is not Fehr's agenda, what is? Is he trying to prove a point? He's trying to show the NHLPA can't be pushed around. That's all well and good, but principles don't pay the bills as well as money does. There will come a point where the majority of players will be suffering financially, and should that happen, Donald Fehr might find himself suddenly unemployed. From my observation, players are blindly following Fehr's lead.

One little trick Fehr is using is that he's rotating players who are involved in the negotiation process. Apparently he brings different players into different meetings, so that way, no one directly involved has attended all the meetings since the beginning. Using this technique is a way to keep control of the NHLPA in the hands of the lawyers, not the players. Even the most involved players only have some of the information.

Fehr's strategy here, and this is a well-known, is that he's counting on the owners to begin battling with each other. That's "Plan A": To break ownership. If that happens, the NHLPA wins. Problem is, it won't happen, as the owners have infinitely more money than the players do. There is very little motivation for ownership to sign a deal, and from this point, the offers from ownership will begin to go down in quality. The players have done it to themselves. They went all in with a pair of twos.

So what does Fehr do if ownership doesn't break? See the problem: There's no "Plan B". As time continues to expire, so does any negotiating leverage the players had.

Photos from last night's Bingo game here

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151984799026494.452441.252012226493&type=3


Near the bottom - Grady in the stands calling the game ?

Quoting Mark33:

Is there a game tonight?

at 7 against the Amercks

Quoting Mr Hockey:

Quoting Mark33:

Is there a game tonight?

at 7 against the Amercks

Niccee

What's the ustream address again for the bingo game?

1-1 middle of the 2nd. Claesson with his 1st goal of the season

U want a big centre that Derek grant is a beauty. His line with Dziurzynski and Stone could probably play in the NHL right away - if there was anNhl. Lehner has that Patrick Roy intangible - the try all u want I've closed it off for tonight attitude. A real winner -future so bright.

Ben Bishop with a nice game last night, and now Robin Lehner responds with a hell of a game......1st star no question tonight, he was probably penciled in after that amazing 2nd period he had 21 saves in.....Robin Lehner is the real deal for the Sens future!!!! Derek Grant is just been amazing. I cant believe how good he has been doing. Cowen out for the season is horrible but if the NHL does start up, Andre Benoit is a good replacement for him. A solid leader and veteran that can play a as a #3 or #4 defenseman in the NHL if needed.

The NHL needs to either get rid of the salary floor or make the gap between the floor and ceiling wider, it is the only way some teams can survive. Think about it, the cap is tied to HRR for the entire league and everyone knows that HRR has increased dramatically because of the success of about 10 teams. This forces less successful teams to spend more money on salaries without having generated more revenue. It is a formula for failure. If player salaries are supposed to equal 50% of revenue then that amount should be calculated for each individual team. Teams like Toronto obviously spend way less than 50% of HRR on salaries and teams like Phoenix pay way more. The solution for a team like Phoenix and other struggling teams is to calculate 50% of their HRR and if that number is less than the salary floor then the difference between the two numbers is what they should receive in revenue sharing. For example if the salary floor is $50 million and Phoenix generates $80 million in revenue then they would receive $10 million in revenue sharing to make up the shortfall. This would probably lead to owners wanting profitable partners and Bettman would have no choice but to really assess the viability of franchises in non-hockey markets.

In terms of existing contracts, I think the players are digging their heels in this time because the star players signed to long front-loaded contracts know that if they take a roll back they will never get that money back because the length of their existing contracts basically guarantees that many of these players will retire before they expire. Even if HRR doubles these players will not see any of this money because they are locked into long-term contracts. Is it any coincidence that players being most vocal about existing contracts are the ones that have these huge deals with significant term? Don't tell me you are making a stand based on principle and for future players.

So now Bettman's plan to "take a 2 week break" has been wiped out by Daly and Steve Fehr !

They have scheduled a Monday meeting in New York, without Bettman and Donald Fehr.

If this meeting moves the process forward, let these 2 guys continue, till they agree to agree on all issues, and have Bettman and Donald Fehr both sign off on the CBA !!

Now, this would be the greatest achievement, after more than 2 months of total frustration !!

GO SENS GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quoting HNIC Snoopy:

So now Bettman's plan to "take a 2 week break" has been wiped out by Daly and Steve Fehr !

They have scheduled a Monday meeting in New York, without Bettman and Donald Fehr.

If this meeting moves the process forward, let these 2 guys continue, till they agree to agree on all issues, and have Bettman and Donald Fehr both sign off on the CBA !!

Now, this would be the greatest achievement, after more than 2 months of total frustration !!

GO SENS GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed re: Bettman & Donald Fehr... Things move faster without them in attendance.

It sucks about Cowen... I would think one of the B-Sens D can adequately fill the spot of the departed Carkner in way of play.. but to fill Cowen's shoes -- I don't think there is anyone in the system right now that comes close. I don't think a trade is out there to bring in that D.. so I guess they will have to do the best they can IF, that is, there is an NHL season.

Off to see Noeson this afternoon... I hope the 67's can at least keep it close...

Hey the next bingo game is on Thursday against the marlies. So I wonder if the game might be on tv?

Quoting NadislavLagy:

Live within your means. Don't get used to living like a millionnaire when you're future is uncertain.

Players do not NEED to buy 100K vehicles they use 4 months out of the year. They do not NEED 3K sq. ft. homes for their wife and 2-3 kids. they do not NEED to live luxurious. Lots of average Canadians live comfortably on much less

I like your thinking Nadislav, AGREED