The CBA talks continued in Toronto today with the NHLPA presenting a series of counter-proposals to the one submitted by the league earlier this week.
Both sides attempted to show strength in numbers as the NHLPA brought a contingent that included nearly 20 members of the Union and after a slight delay in the start time, the two sides finally got together at approximately 2:30 PM.
Stay tuned to this post and the comment section below for updates.
Isn't that what negotiating is? One side offers, the other side counters with something more in their own favor and so on?
In summary, these guys all just got to shut up with all the damn press conferences and sound bites. Starting to (have always) sound like idiots
Now I would really like to hear from a player as to why the NHLPA thinks they should get the larger share of revenue when they take no financial risk, absorb no losses, and don't pay a single cent of expenses. As Craig Button said.. that 57% was the last CBA -- that has expired -- it is no longer in affect... get over it.
It's what I have been feeling all along... the NHLPA doesn't want to play this season. It's all posturing and lies. They are going to delay with this garbage they knew the NHL would not accept -- forcing Bettman to cancel the season and make the Owners look like the bad guys.
Well NHLPA.. the fans are catching on to your tactics... you will fail miserably. The NHL has proven they do indeed want to get back to playing.. but trying to negotiate with a bunch of spoiled millionaires.. will stop that from happening.
Prepare to lose 1.8 Billion in salary in ONE lost season to not accept the NHL's offer (or close to it).. that will see players $$ down 1.6 Billion over 6 YEARS.
Are they that arrogant? or that stupid?
I think the crux of the matter is the paycut the players are being asked to swallow on *currently valid individual contracts*. To say the old CBA is in the past doesn't make a lot of sense in that regard.
The NHL made its strongest move to save the season only because of the NBC deal, the worst thing that could have happened was the PA presenting 3 options, instead of work of the NHL deal.
What concerns me is that the NHL will now stop efforts to save the season, go to NBC, make them an offer on repairing what a lost season would do to them, and reside to the fact that there will not be a season this year.
The players can say NO to losing $300K now, or lose the full season and lose on average 2 MIl, and come back next year to $500k.
After losing a full year they will accept anything.
Just like they accepted a salary cap that would never agree with, and lost a season over the last time.
Players wake the fuk up, the losses will only get bigger from this point on!!!
Go Bingo GO!
First off, why in the hell would you present three different offers? Come to the table with one offer than you feel keeps negotiations moving forward.
Based on what I've seen so far, I'm not convinced the NHL responds with a new proposal and the nhlpa sure as shit isn't going to offer up a 4th without a counter or a lapse of time.
Popular opinion officially just shifted in favor of the owners, I wonder how long it will take the majority of the union to realize that they don't get that money back that they'll be losing by not playing. Lets take that a step further, the money they are currently passing on invested wisely would be garnering interest as shitty as the economy is...lets say conservatively, they make 3% on their money, how do they possibly come out ahead by sitting out an extended period of time?
What in the hell does the nhlpa have to gain by having a bunch of players attend exactly?
With the exception of a select few like iginla, Alfie, these players are kids and have no comprehension of the big picture. How much did you know in your twenties?
similar to last time this is going to screw more players than it helps, the bubble players that play 2-4 years are paying the price for the superstars again ..
-The NHL players live a priveledged life
-they make way too much money for playing a game most of us pay money to play
- we all get up go to work for an employer, who determines our wages, if we dont like it get the fuk out, if they dont make money we all lose our jobs
-This really is a slap in the face to all the fans who actually believe that the players care about the team they play for, or even give a shit about winning or losing
- in the end they will collect their $100K every two weeks, work out, play some hockey, and when most of them lose, the fans will cry, but they all go home, in their Ferrari's, to their 6000ft mansions, on the water, and book their flights the next day to Monaco
This is the reality folks they could not give a rats ass about whether they win the cup or not, its about them and their contracts
this is why Junior hockey and the World Junior Championships is the best hockey we will ever see
SCREW YOU ALL Players!
Live a week in an average person's life and you will be back on the ice and begging to play hockey again!
And I will appologize now to everyone for my Rant
He had the gall to say that Bettman's last offer ( 50-50 ),
was a "starting point",and come back with what Bettman
called "a step backward"??
He clearly does not want to move these talks forward, but wants to be the guy that forces the players to do what he says !
The players should hold a meeting, and decide to fire Fehr on the spot.
They should then contact Gary Bettman, and get this negotiating back on track tomorrow !
Fehr needs to step down or be fired right away !!
Bettman is a tool and you are all showing how easily you let him control your opinions. This idiot created the mess he's in, only makes offers that take money and rights without giving anything back in return and now he sends an offer and says take it or leave it this is the best offer we'll make. Somehow this is the NHLPA and Fehr's fault? I give up on humanity, no wonder big business and shady billionaires run this f'n world, because individuals like you think their actions are acceptable. I'm glad at least the city council in Edmonton had the balls to stand up to these owners (for now).
Fehr is doing for the players what they want him to, this is why they hired him because they were tired of Bettman's bs bully tactics. Not 1 single one of you would put up with an employer doing this to you at your job, but hey it's ok if you're a millionaire hockey player because you're selfish and overpaid. What a joke and a disgrace to humanity! I didn't realize that Canada became the USA.
Phuck everybody involved!
You work for an employer that splits revenue with you 50/50? Where do I apply??
Fact is this... Professional sports is a free market system... It is based off supply and demand and the revenues are decided by the market for the sport... Right now, the NHL is a distant 4th in terms of revenue and popularity in 70% of the markets it plays in... In those markets, comparable businesses (NFL and NBA because there are caps in place), pay their players a much smaller share of revenue than the NHL. The NFL, average salary is actually lower compared to a NHL salary. Now granted an NFL roster has more players on it and they play fewer games, but their gate a merchandise FAR exceeds anything the NHL will ever see.
Take a supply and demand stance on this... The demand for the NHL product is far less... so why are the player's salaries actually more?!
I get the unwillingness to lose money off existing contracts... There needs to be some concessions on the league's part to ensure that there is an equitable way to come to agreement on that part... But the NHLPA needs to understand that the business needs to be in line with the demand the market has for it... 50/50 is a reasonable number. They need to forget about the last CBA and the losses they incurred. Move ahead and not backwards. They didn't end up so bad after those "massive concessions"
It's a lockout, not a strike, so off the bat I'd say the owners have to shoulder a little more of the blame. They are the ones who set the timetable, and their first offer was absolutely outrageous and obviously designed to make this rollback seem like a big concession. Add to that that there would be no issue in all of this were it not for the insanely bloated contracts that the richer owners were happy to offer until the very last days before the old CBA expired.
That said, yeah, it's hard to feel much sympathy for either side.
I guess you work for an employer that asked for 24% salary reduction 6 years ago to fix their industry and now is asking for it again while implementing the same type of system that failed them the last time around, and you're cool with it, right?
This stalemate of a negotiation is a problem based on principles, not pure numbers. Also, I am not the product my company sells, I am an employee only. Players are employees and the product (and I guarantee most companies spend over 50% of their revenue on salaries + product)!
And FYI, you may want to do some research because there are a lot of industries we all work in where over 50% of the companies' revenue goes to pay employee salaries.
Did you miss all the articles and interviews discussing why the players hired Fehr in the first place. If you think your problem is with Fehr, it's actually with the demands of the players, because that is what he is presenting. He was brought out of retirement so that they could stand up to this bully Bettman, not because he has his own agenda that ignores what the players truly want!
But, it leaves a lot of questions;
How do you honour existing contracts and still go to 50/50? To me that means that the players not under a contract right now suffer. And if that is the case, I can't imagine all the NHLPA is thrilled about it. It also means that many teams would be scrambling to get under the cap.
But for the owners, they are paying at 50/50 regardless, so why would they care?
Does anyone know how many players are currently under contract? Didn't i read that like 40% currently do not have a contract? Does that sound right?
And if so, does that mean that the 40% who don't have a contract would have to negotiate against what is left of the 50% share not already taken by contracted players? Don't see why owners would care about that. I do see why the remaining 40% would though...
Like I said, a lot of questions.
Edit: to ensure my single post on the interwebs doesn't create a tidal wave of misinformation, approx `12.75% of players are without a contract now and 40% could be in 2013/14.
The point of my post remains the same, I wonder how proposal #3 could work? and I am not saying it couldn't, just wondering how it could.
40%? Are we inventing numbers now? How can I as a fan take other fans seriously if we're quoting shit like this?
According to capgeek there are 79UFAs and 9RFAs remaining, that's 88 total. There are 690 people (23 per team) allowed on NHL rosters at any given time during a season. Obviously not all of the UFAs would end up in the NHL as some would be 2-way or AHL contracts, but even ignoring that, it's still 88/690 = 12.75%. And that's the high end. If you take the 50 contracts teams are allowed to put out the percentage goes down even further!
It's frustrating to see so many other fans form their opinions based on misinformation. I think a lot of you are using the players as scapegoats for your frustration with the situation. Yes they are better off than the average person, but if you think they're so spoiled and you're jealous of what they have you should have chosen a profession in the entertainment industry.
?
It was a question @sensnation. not sure what you're in a huff about. Are you Alan Walsh by chance?
I thought I heard hockeycentral guys yesterday mentioning that 60% of guys had contracts, 40% didnt. They might have meant after next year.
Again, just a question not a statement. Im just curious how the NHLPA's 3rd option, which seems on the surface, reasonable, could simultaneously honour existing contracts while going to 50/50 "tomorrow" without hurting non contracted players earning potential. I would think that those non-contracted players wouldn't like it. they are the minority though but it would cause great tension internally I imagine.
Sorry spezzerman, but that number is just so ridiculous it should take 2s for you to confirm or realize it's not right. It happens all the time on this board, not just with that but even with other comments made about the lockout. Too many fans spewing shit that isn't even in the realm of the truth. Then some other fan is going to go home tonight and quote that number to their friend and so on and so on. Misinformation is the #1 problem in society today, and it's just sad to see it propagated in such a manner so easily.
that makes sense. I am very curious about the PA's 3rd option.
There is a deal to be made here once the posturing ends.
Let's not get too dramatic. First off the Americans don't even know that there is a lock out because they are preparing for this weekends High School football games. Second, the NHL will not lose it's fan base in Canada. If we are to believe what the press is reporting, 2 new teams in Canada are set to be announced.
Lastly the NHL is not real life. Don't compare the world's economy with professional sports. It's called supply and demand. I remember reading how the NHL would not recover from the 04-05 lockout. Well they basically tripled their revenues. So I guess they did ok.
All us fans want is a stable product on and off the ice. Owners that are responsible and players that play hard, nothing more and nothing less. All this other BS of how hockey fans will disappear, especially in Canada is just that BS.
The NHLPA is willing to come to 50% as current contracts expire... remember it is these same owners that signed these high priced contracts (think Parise this summer)
Bettman playing the fans like a fiddle.
Guys think about it. If this is a fair deal, and its what the NHL wants, why didn't they make this offer, I don't know, 2 months ago?
Not sure I understand this comment? What they "wanted" is what they offered 2 months ago.
Try sales-you eat what you kill and as soon as you kill too much they change the game
Try contractors- they can lose their job with 0 notice and 0 compensation, you don't like the money offered on your contract renewal, ok beat it..
Try the high tech bubble burst a few years ago-several companies rolled back salaries and forced employees to work extended hours
If you want to feel sorry for the players that's your perogative but don't talk to the rest of like we're idiots, you've clearly never come close to owning a business or creating jobs for others and I'm guessing you currently belong to a union.
It's not as though these guys are paying out money to the old timers that built the game for pennies with no pension etc.
If he really wanted fans on his side he's say here's a 50/50 deal and for dragging the fans into it were will split the pie and sponsor beverage sales 50% at all NHL games.
so we get hockey and 1/2 priced beer! Everyone wins.
then fans would be all in favor for this deal.
I feel that the players made an honest effort with the 3 proposals. Why should contracts that are in place be clawed back. Owner..Honor the fucking things that you were STUPID enough to give them in the first place
yes they do have risk to injury, facial, eye, teeth, neck, spinal, hips, knee, ankle etc. all for the love of the game, gain of fame, be a hero, be in the spotlite, help a community, help fundraise etc. living the dream and getting paid.
but i do have to say something.
i come from a military family and have lost family members to disputes and war. they didn't make millions or could invest 1 year of salary to have a comfotable life, they didnt get a summer off to enjoy the lakehouse and act like a king pin to friends. they came back quiet, didnt say much of anything and it was hard to get them to do anything and all they could do is wait until they went back. They risk their lives and dont complain about it.
i agree this economy etc, the life they live etc, they need to think of the everyday person for once and say hay, maybe we could offer something to the fans instead of fighting over our money spent like barbarians after a slaughter.
just think of us for once, and think of themselves as kids and their heros and how they would feel if they had a stoppage because of the excess money coming in.
just another rant and i wish we could all be talking about our team getting ready for nov.2 and talking bingo instead of this shit.
These contracts that everyone keeps sighting, you mean the same ones that already paid them 29 million upfront to sign it? are those the ones your talking about..
Give me a break...how many players haven't lived up to their contract exactly?
I cant think of a single one that has come out and said, hey you know what, I haven't delivered on what you signed me for so i'll give you back a percentage...do esn't happen.
This is a lopsided arrangement where players have 0 accountability.
Sorry just a small nit pick because people seem to always get confused by this. Revenue does not equal profits. The league may make BILLIONS in revenues, but then you've got to factor everything else before you find out that most owners make almost nothing in profits. Sure a few of the big teams probably make a nice profit however probably 20 or so teams barely break even.
In my opinion both parties suck and I'm just about done caring until they come to an agreement.
Owners that can't help themselves. Handing out ridiculous contracts, running teams in shitty markets and then crying poor. Assholes!
Poor players fearing going from $5M to $4.5M, $2.5M to $2.25M or $900k to $850k. How will they survive? Crosby whining about a fair deal. Shit! He makes more in endorsements than most players will ever make playing the game.
I honestly am getting very close to the "I really don't give a shit if the season is lost" apathy state. Baseball playoffs have been pretty good. NFL rules Sundays. Basketball is on the way and my entertainment dollars will be spent elsewhere this year.
I can't believe that these idiots (players and owners) are willing to piss away another season.
Today he made a beautiful play on the second goal by the red team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goRlnMCipXE
Not sure I understand this comment? What they "wanted" is what they offered 2 months ago.
Realistically, is what I meant. Sure I'll bet they would have been ecstatic if the PA accepted their initial offer. But it wasn't realistic at all. It was a phantom offer.
Let's say I have a table for sale for 100. And you only have 75... you don't start bargaining by offering me 75 cause then I'm going to say 90 and already you're screwed.
If youre smart you say 50 and then we do some back and forth and end up at 75.
If I say yes to 50 you're not going to argue. But in all honesty, you knew before offering it that it wasn't happening
The problem is, the league didn't offer 50 for my table, they came in and offered 30. So I told them to get the fuck out of my store. And 2 months later they came back and offered me the 50 that they should have.
Comprende? (In a Spanish accent, not French)
Listening to the season ticket holder conference call this week.. the NHL is in contact with the teams to get the info on how the fans are reacting. Cyril said he told Bettman that the fans in Ottawa will not tolerate a long lockout. Let's hope other teams are saying the same thing.. and Bettman actually cares about the fans.
I am sure fans in most die-hard hockey cities (even those in the States) are pissed right now and are getting very impatient with this whole situation.
Realistically, is what I meant. Sure I'll bet they would have been ecstatic if the PA accepted their initial offer. But it wasn't realistic at all. It was a phantom offer.
Let's say I have a table for sale for 100. And you only have 75... you don't start bargaining by offering me 75 cause then I'm going to say 90 and already you're screwed.
If youre smart you say 50 and then we do some back and forth and end up at 75.
If I say yes to 50 you're not going to argue. But in all honesty, you knew before offering it that it wasn't happening
The problem is, the league didn't offer 50 for my table, they came in and offered 30. So I told them to get the fuck out of my store. And 2 months later they came back and offered me the 50 that they should have.
Comprende? (In a Spanish accent, not French)
News flash, the owners own the the store..not the other way around....
brilliantly stated, welcome to reality to some of the posters.
Most people's jobs are 8 hour days, and this is what you will be paid... take it or leave it!
And I ask all of you to put things into perspective -
given the choice would you rather a 2% increase on a 100K salary job? Or would you be willing to go from 3 Million to 2.5 million to play a fkn wonderful game... get fkn real!!!
I strongly believe that even though Bettman said "it was
a step backward" , the 2 sides, still can get back to the table next week (Mon or Tues), and come to a compromise deal !
Both the NHL and NHLPA have too much to lose by not settling !!
They released the proposal. You can see it for yourself.
Fehr came forward with three separate proposals and then admitted he hadn't "run the numbers" on them. release them to the public then Don, and let someone else run 'em.
Agreed. Not all doom and gloom like those two tried to portray. What will be interesting is to hear if more games get cancelled today. Once that happens, I think the players can expect to see the league turn up the heat a little bit.
Thos 3 proposals are nowhere close to the 50/50 split the NHL had offered.
Greed Greed Greed...
As one poster already commented, the NHL players are now surpassing some of the bigger Sports in the US in NFL Football and Basketball, and who are the ones paying for it?
You and I, not the huge TV contracts all those other sports are bringing in their revenues for.
Listen to what all of the players that went through the last lockout are saying they will never make that year salary back, and many many older middle of the road players never played again... Wake the fuk up guys, 75% of NHL players will be seriously damaged if the year is lost.
Here is how Bettman should phrase it
So take a 300K hit tdoay, and earn a year salary or take $500k less next year and lose a year salary.
They cannot beat the owners, but they will still win with an average 2 mil per season and all of the luxuries of playing in the NHL!
Someone has to give them a real dose of reality
Seriously? It was a bargaining analogy. Trying to clarify that the owners initial proposal was like offering 30 bucks for something with a 100 price tag. Never going to happen
If you want to be a little B about everything then fine:
I walk into a store, I see a 100 dollar chair with a 800 dollar price tag. I say fuck this, come back in 2 months, chair is still there but the price is now 100 dollars.
Happy?
Well said, the NHLPA have no argument whatsoever, they complain about lost salaries, rollback and other salary stuff.... they have INCREASED over the last 15 years and 2 CBA's...
It was all there for everyone to read, the NHL offer is right up there with what the NHLPA wanted and all of a sudden the minor issues are a problem for the NHLPA...
They completely lost face...
Preach on sister! This is exactly what I have been saying all along. The NHLPA is so shady and the players are too blind and ignorant to realize it.
@ Tookie,
Your statement is dead on, and for one of the few times I agree with you!! And watching Donald Fehr on TV yesterday,
showed that he is "not advising the players, but rather listening to the players" Too bad, but the majority of these NHL players are too selfish,and afraid to lose anything !
Bring back Bob Goodenow !! He learned a good lesson in 2004 !
Following the settlement of the 2004–05 NHL lockout, NHL players were also due to be paid about US$1.3 million on average, although this quickly increased because the lockout did not have the adverse effect on league revenues that was expected. For the 2010–11 NHL season, the average player salary was above the pre-lockout level of US$1.8 million
And they complain they gave up too much....LOL
Its laughable, Its straight up lies and they dont even bother to cover it up. They think they are DUE that money cuz they play in the NHL.
If the players had any integrity at all, they would fire this Don Fehr moron and sign on the dotted line.
Instead they are willing to scar the great game of Hockey the same way Baseball was scarred and never recovered.
If the season was well underway as it should have been, Tookie would be pleading the Sens case for not winnin' for MacKinnon. Snoopy would be telling Tookie that he is not a real Sens fan. Sandy would be praising everything Eric Condra does, no matter how bad he really is. Miguel would be making Stanley Cup predictions of Ottawa over L.A. in a 4 game sweep. The Tyrant would be chiming in from time to time with his very logical point of view. Hax would be dominating the discussion thread on a daily basis.
We should be talking about how Karlsson is on pace to win his second Norris Trophy.
We should be praising Craig Anderson for keeping the still very young Sens in the game every night, but wondering if it's time to trade him while his value is high because Robin Lehner is the real deal.
We should be bashing Gonchar for his uninspiring play and wishing he had stayed in Russia.
We should be overjoyed with the progress Cowen and Turris have made to take the next step in reaching their potential.
I'm sure you guys get the point. I just hope the NHL and NHLPA get a deal done before the whole season is lost. Both sides should be embarrassed that it has come to this yet again.
Great post AFM11,
Are the Sens in first place in both their Division , as well as the Eastern Conference as of today ??
GOSENS GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob Goodenow was the corrupt bastard that befriended and made David Frost an agent. No thanks.
Halleluah Alfie for Mayor!
And yes Sens in 6 over LA :)
First off, the NHL business structure is complete crap and set for failure. Most businesses usually allocate 15-35% of their revenue for staffing etc. The last CBA had 57% of the overall revenue for players. Now take into account all the staff the teams employ to run the team... that would take this percentage to roughly 72-92%
So this tells us the larger markets have already allocated 72% of revenue to pay for the players and their staff, while the lesser markets creep up to approx 92% of revenue.
Then the owners have to poney up more cash for:
- Player Benefits (including their demands for private transportation and accomodations, food, and whatever else they get)
- Supply costs for concessions, team memorabilia
- Areana lease payments
- Marketing
- etc.
I'm sorry but most teams are just set to fail. You can't expect owners to stay afloat with that margin of cost/revenue you just can't...
I seriously think that the cut to players should be more towards the 35% area... which would bring the Player/Staffing cost to the 50-70% ball park, which should at least give the lower marketing teams a chance to at least survive without much assistance from the league.
Seriously, since when do staff have so much power in making such decisions for a company? While I still believe the players existing contracts should be honored, I really think the Players Association should be brought back down to earth and realize that they are not CEO's of the NHL and are actually people employed by the NHL.
Today he made a beautiful play on the second goal by the red team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goRlnMCipXE
my bad I meant the second goal by the white team.
***********
Thanks for Turris link. Glad he is playing well.
Anyway we can get English subtitles? (its a joke)
Love the gold helmet on the scorer.
Good to talk about anything but the strike.
The source of this is John Shannon, formerly of Leafs TV and Hockey Night In Canada, who is well respected and very connected in the hockey world, so his opinion or information should be given proper consideration and weight.
Don't teams require a CBA to be able to trade players because terms of how trades can occur are detailed in the CBA?
The next CBA could stipulate that salaries have to be within so much % of each other in a trade, so I'm not sure how they could make a trade during a lockout. But I'm not a lawyer, maybe someone can pose this to team 1200 sports lawyer :)
I found this link on Sens Town, check it out if you haven't seen it:
http://ilovegoalies.blogspot.ca/2012/09/robin-lehner-2012-13-mask.html
• Term: Ten years
• Applicable Players' Share of Revenue: 35%
• Payroll Floor: $51.9 Ceiling 59.9M (Adjusted yearly based on a revenue formula agree upon)
• Payroll Lower Limit must be satisfied without performance bonuses.
• No player can earn more than 10% of salary cap and no contract longer than 5 years
• All years of existing contracts will be respected. Contracts with salaries up to the 10% cap limit ($5.9M per year) will be counted against the cap. Amounts past the 10% cap limit will be paid to the player, but not counted against the cap.
• Trades: Teams acquiring rights to players who have existing contracts in surplus of the 10% cap limit will be responsible for the max 10% ($5.9M per year). The remainder of the contract (amount past the cap limit) will be paid by the team who created the contract for the balance of the term.
This way the NHL sets itself up for a shot at being a viable business for ALL the teams. Owners who permited GM's to sign ridiculous offers will have to pay for their bad practices and other GM do not have to suffer for them. Players will also not be penalized for the GM's stupidity.
If the players don't like it. I say the NHL shuts down, and restarts under a new name of North American Hockey League but keep the same accronym of NHL (therefor reducing rebranding costs). Existing players will then have to chose individually which league they want to play in.
Enough of this BS where the players are forcing a reverse pyramid business structure... Owners who invest their hard earned cash are in this to make money, not to make others money.
Its not bad, but its not great, I mean its basically the Sens logo in black and white. I much prefer the masks to be original and have cool color patterns in them.
I bet you he made this mask hoping to be the #1 in Bingo....not anymore...I dont care what he asays or what people say. Thats a slap in the face!
A slap in the face? I don't get your logic. Every goalie in the league, or in any league for that matter, is doing what he can to be the #1 guy. Lehner SHOULD be believing he's the #1 in Bingo, with hopes of being the #1 in Ottawa soon. If he isn't I'd be worried.
And why would you say not anymore? He's played the 1st two games, allowed 2 goals and at this point, has shown he is looking to compete. It's a small sample but a good one. Sure, he has competition in Bishop now, but I don't see Bishop arriving in Bingo meaning Lehner has to take a back seat.
EEEEEEEEEEYORE !
Yeah there won't be much for Lehner to worry about as long as he keeps playing well. If he continues to stand on his head for the team and leading them to wins as he has in the first 2 games, then Bishop will be sitting on the bench for a while.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Bishop start one of the two games on back to back nights this weekend, but the net is Lehner's unless he falters, which I don't think he will.
Every report out of Bingo has said that Lehner has pulled a total 180 since last year. He's much more mature, much more physically fit, and much more focused than ever before.
The biggest mistake Murray could ever make is trading Lehner.
If people are have come to the conclusion that Bryan Murray will retire when his contract expires, think again. Apparently Bryan's desire to win a Stanley Cup is so strong right now that he doesn't want to retire any time soon.
If this is true, then I think it's great news. Based the past 2 season, I believe that Bryan's one of the best in the business and I hope he remains our GM for quite some time. Just as long as Eugene doesn't make him go out and sign anymore Kovelev's, Gonchar's or Kuba's ever again.
all i know is that they are staying with the hot hand and lehner starts.
chirp are you posting a pre game lineup etc?
you guys can find a stream here:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1273165
I would guess Lehner tonight and Sunday in Hershey. Someone has to put Holtby in his place! :)
After all is said and done, Canucks GM Mike Gillis just said on TSN, Luongo rumours to Toronto "are not true" !!
i guess there is no trades and gms are not allowed to talk trades during the lockout.
So if this does happen does toronto and burke get a fine? possible leaked info should get somebody in hot water. loss of draft pick etc?
Which could mean that once lock-out is over, Gillis can make the Luongo trade to Toronto ??
well there it is.
Do you really thing the owners would drop ticket prices. It like a fn gas station not dropping prices until there is a threat of government intervention. They would just make more.
I believe that's called breaking the union...would not goober well with the ore nhlers
Are you saying baseball was in a good situation before that ?? hahaha He didn't ruin anything. MLB owners and league DID accept and sign that CBA.
Don't worry we have enough firepower to get back into it !
Andre Benoit
ass Mark Stone
The first game, in his first shift shorthanded, he had a partial breakaway and drew a penalty.
The second game, in the first period he had a really good chance to score aswell, while shorthanded.
Today he once again was amazing, as he assisted on the second goal shorthanded.
I do remember one of his 5 goals in the SEL was a shorthanded breakaway goal.
every year players get a percentage held in escrow from their salary. Bob Mckenzie laid this out yesterday. Last year players had 8.5% held.
Escrow calculations were just made,and the amount payable was 7.9%, or $79,000 for every 1m in contracts
Therefore at the end of the season once salary and revenue is calculated the players actually earned 99.48% of their salary
He also said players have earned anywehre from 88% to 104% of salaries.
I'm not saying players are in the right, but please stop with the "no risk" by players and "name me a business where employees get 50% of revenue"
revenue is tied to expenses, and if the owners dont earn enough revenue, players dont get their full salary.
Finally when Bettman says 'clearly we arent speaking the same language" he is basically saying "i speak the right language and I'm going to wait until the nhlpa realizes it and bends to my PoV"
BTW good to be back!!
Redden, Gomez are a few easy targets but there are tons of them. the risk is 100 percent on the owners.
you can debate it all you want but the players have guaranteed money for the life of the contract whether it's 2 million a year or god forbid 1.8 million
completely agree but in terms of negotiations, the NHL is basically admitting they lost the last lockout if they are trying to now do a complete overhaul, and take so much from the players this time
if this is the case why did the players give 24% back plus agree to a cap
i just think I agree with the players in the stance that if we give up more again, what will happen in 6 years, will they want more again?
50/50 is fair, no rollbacks is fair and no contract limits is fair. its up to the owners to try and control their own market at least a little
if all the owners can come together and be this united for a lockout why cant they come together and try and control their own market by saying on open negotiations keep it within 7 years even if the lockout says no limit
owners are ruthless since owners fight the players on one side of the table, and then once season starts they fight each other
awesome
No wonder the players are not backing down, could you actually imagine negotiating with this douche, regardless of how much money they earn or think they are entitled to?
Put it this way, for the past 6 years all fans do is bitch about bettman and everything he does. We boo him mercifully when he presents the cup, we boo him whenever he speaks
then once a decade we have lockouts (his 3rd) and for some reason we just take his/owner side and say the players are all greedy
I'd love to just see the players stick it to him, at this point I'm perfectly content and fully accept a missed season so whatever, if this happens and he gets fired then its win-win
This would be solved in a matter of minutes,and NHL hockey would be starting Friday Nov 2 !!
GO SENS GO
I really think the owners are going to stick to their guns on this one. According to Shayne Hnidy, the majority of players over 26 want to get whatever they can and get back playing within a few weeks. When you only have 3 or 4 seasons left in your career, this is not an ideal situation.
Putting aside that I am more sympathetic to the owners, I just don't see the players negotiating from a position of strength accordingly, I think they have to be the ones that take it on the chin and move on, if they don't I think the season is toast.
One last thought, if the players are adamant about moving to 50/50. Gradually.
Why don't they make a six year contract that sees the players get
52
51
50
49
48
47
Players get what they want now which is basically to look after themselves and the owners get what they want which is better long term profitability. It actually probably works out better for the owners based in the assumption that revenues continue to rise.