In what seems like the first significant movement in CBA negotiations between the NHL and NHLPA, the league announced that they have offered a 50/50 HRR split.
How this new offer sits with the NHLPA remains to be seen but this certainly seems like a step in the right direction. Donald Fehr is expected to meet with the media in Toronto shortly.
Bettman indicated that this offer was made with the intention of saving a full 82 game season which is apparently still possible if the puck is dropped by November 2.
The full 82 game schedule would have teams playing 1 extra game every 5 weeks...
Sportsnet said there was no rollback... but how would they get from 57% to 50% without some salary takeback.. unless it's escrow.
Now if they get this done now they may keep a lot of the revenue they expect to get.
Apparently Fehr is speaking in about 15 minutes...
How bad would it look for the players IF they refuse this? Would they lose fan support?
Is the offer from the NHL really that.. or is there something there the players won't like? There are still other issues to discuss like free agency, entry levels, etc.. but this one is the big sticking point..
Give and take.. get it done.
NHLPA has called a 5 PM (Eastern) conference call for the Executive Board and the Negotiating Committee. #TSN
It's only one hurdle.. but the biggest one... the UFA, ELC, arbitration, etc.. can be done pretty quickly.
So we wait... it's going to be a long 6 hours or so.. that is IF they let us know tonight.
The NHL made a big move. My guess is the NHL realized the damage they are doing to the NHL with this lockout.
Maybe the anger from the fans and those saying they were leaving for good put the pressure on.. as well as sponsors & broadcasters.
For the good of the NHL get this done.
Woah there, I admit a 50/50 split looks good. But Leta not forget all the other factors the NHL had in their initial offer
Maximum contract length
Later UFA status
No arbitration
Longer entry level contracts
And other stuff I can't remembe. If all they did was wiggle on the revenue split, but keep all the other stuff from the initial offer, there's still a lot of negotiating left to do
Example: PA- we don't want longer entry level
NHL- ok , but now we want 51%... and so on
If I am understanding the tweets correctly, NHL has moved on the other stuff,meaning keeping it status quo.
50/50 split with lost revenue made up over the next few years of profit. unless there are slippery numbers this is sounding more than fair
Get it done
Some tweets from LeBrun..
@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Also league has taken off table some of the systemic changes to player contracts which they asked for in initial July offer
@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Am told in NHL offer there is a proposal designed to "protect" players for salary reductions in the initial years
IMO -- the Owners made a big move today with this offer. Remains to be seen IF the players agree...
As an outsider it seems to be fair.. and that's what the players have been saying.. they want a fair offer..
Do the players perceive this as the Owners 'giving in'?
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet
Could we be doing this again in 5 years? God, I hope not.
My emotions are so high now... I will be soooooo pissed off if the players refuse this..
Whatever comes out of this... I'm still going to Bingo!!!
I read Don Fehr said that it was "at least" six years
I wouldn't get too excited yet, there's still going to be some negotiating on what is considered HRR.
Thanks for the tip on that...
Seems the only sticking point in this.. is that they have kept the 5 yr maximum for player contracts.
UFA at age 28 or 8 yrs.. Up 1 year from current.
ELC to 4 yrs.. up 1 yr from current..
Now if only 1 issue is the contract length.. maybe the PA comes back with a 6 or 7 year contract length... and just maybe this will fly...
Having only shortterm contracts eliminates those ridiculous cap circumventing ones...
The NHL has already said they would be willing to keep it as is, they will again. especially now that they obviously want to get a deal done.
Players can't afford to be greedy now. I don't think they have the overwhelming support they thought they would have in the beginning.
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
The payback to the players would occur over the balance of their contracts.
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
NHL intends on calculating lost salary in getting to 50-50 and will pay the players back over time.
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Need to see provision for year 1 salary protection. Initial player response: 1% increase. Still a 12-13% reduction in yr 1 (7/57= 12.2%).
fan support plays into this more than some admit
Well players like Ovechkin probably won't like it... but the 3rd or 4th line players will jump to it...
Will the 'regular' players outvote the superstars? That's the point.
The PA has spent months trying to get fan support.. they lose it rather quickly if they refuse this deal.
IMO this is the best they will get... if they refuse we see no season and less of a deal when they do sign it...
If they refuse this it will be a LONG lockout.
I've been on the players side the whole time but this shows the league wants to get this done.
If this doesn't get accepted or at least countered with a 50/50 split and only minor changes in other areas I will absolutely loose my shit.
Like we've been saying all along, everyone knew it was going to come to an even split. If the players refuse to come to 50% it will look beyond terrible on their part.
This has to get done today or tomorrow!!
John Shannon @JSportsnet
Another interesting tidbit from NHL offer... Players' Salaries for those NHLers playing in the AHL would be part of the cap.
Boy the NYRangers won't like that. IF there is provision for a buyout.. he goes first.
He has 4 NHL games to play to reach 1,000 -- 4 games the Rangers wouldn't let him play. Does he sign somewhere for league minimum to get those 4 games? Question is where? Do you think he really regrets not taking about 3M in the salary offer from the Sens?
@StartTheFKSeasonAlready
Senators have recalled Jean-Gabriel Pageau, Matt Puempel, Stefan Noesen, Shance Prince & Daren Kramer as reinforcements to kick everybody's asses.
That's what we can only hope for, bud. But what's happening as far as Entry Level being extended to 5 years, and UFA status extended to 10 years, etc.?
P.S. If they agree to come to terms, how many yea rs will this CBA last? Because it would seem that every time a CBA expires, it causes a pause for quite some time.
Bettman's job is finally looking like he is trying. He better pull this off or any credibility will once again be thrown out the window.
Its 1 player, 1 vote as far as I know. Superstars could not possibly outvote the rest of the league and besides a few threats from russians getting paid by the KHL right now, they would not be able to tip the scale of an otherwise promising deal.
And once the agreement is signed, the players are under contract and will be mandated to return to their respective clubs. I doubt the Russian contingency will refuse or disobey. Especially the stars on 10 year long contracts. Regardless, there would be consequences.
Ovechkin only cares about the Sochi provision. Everything else was just empty threats. Not knowing much about this new offer, there is still a sentiment that the NHL is opting for the status quo on many player related issues. I suspect that this will be the same for the Olympic participation.
I imagine the final agreement will involve phasing in towards the 50/50 split, but at least we're getting somewhere now and the bullying has stopped.
This isn't an accept or reject scenario. This is the beginning of real negotiations. Why are people acting like the NHLPA has to straight up accept this one? This is a process, this is just the first MEANINGFUL step that has taken place in quite some time. It's not over yet, but we can see the finish line!
I think Fehr is just a pessimistic prick by nature. It's the reaction or rumours of reaction by players that you need to monitor. Not really up to Fehr.
John Shannon @JSportsnet
In my haste,may have noted 4 years for entry level. Told that I am wrong with that number..it appears to be remaining at 3 years.
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From an outsider.. I can't see what is really bad in this offer. The NHL has put the pressure on the NHLPA to accept this or lose a season and fan support...
The only negotiating I see from this would be on contract length.
According to Darren Dreger:
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Final details of the NHL's proposal were fine tuned over the wknd, but, the league worked on offer for several days
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So I assume discussions with the PA were held to discuss what they were looking for..
I think he is just extra careful not to say the wrong things without going through the offer extensively or gauging player reaction.
if the NHLPA can't find a way to get start participating based on this offer, I have no sympathy for them.
-50/50 HRR
-No salary Rollbacks
-UFA age goes up to 28 from 27
-Entry Level deals are a standard 4 year deal
-Salary Cap stays the same where it is at, but the floor decreases by 5 million.
-Players and owners lose rights to arbitration they will have to deal with a contract dispute themselves.
-Max years on any deal is 8 years
that would be about it with many more issues to cover but that would be the main ones I believe.
But a little tweak by the PA and all of a sudden it's a great deal... LOL
On an unrelated note, when FEAR said that the proposal was for "at least 6 years" I hope by that he meant TWENTY.
Sandy its not that simple, yes is 50/50 HRR split but what else are the demands of the NHL...
Like UFA's at 28 years old or 8 years of service...
Lenght of contracts are 5 years...
Entry level contracts are 4 years...
Revenue sharing would be at or near 200 million dollars
...
Its not as simple as ok 50/50 we agree, obviously its a good starting point but I dont think the NHLPA will accept without atleast adding some stuff or taking stuff out.
Nhlpa absolutely needs to come back w proposal that is reasonably in line with what is proposed not something that has a totally different frame work.
John Shannon came back that he made a mistake and ELC's stay at 3. Tookie I realize a lot of other 'things' are in the CBA.. but the big one was the split of HRR... The rest should get done with a give and take.. fingers crossed.
One would hope so, I mean thats what the NHLPA were pushing for and even said themselves that the minor issues can be dealt with in 2 hours...
Lets see if they backpeddle...
Balls in NHLPA's court. PLEASE take it and run.
I NEED some hockey.
Go Sens Go !!!
But wasn't a 50/50 split the goal from the get go for the owners?
And why couldnt this "progress" have been made in September when players were signing deals elsewhere
He thinks the players may not be happy with an immediate cutback to 50/50 split.
He said what would happen if the players outright refused to accept that offer.. He said this could still get very ugly.
Not that I believe Eklund for one minute.. but he heard some of the PA is saying this offer is all PR and a lot of fluff.
I don't know who to believe.
Don't toy with my emotions guys... get this deal done...
When the deal breaks done its 55 45 deal for the owners with the owners giving the players an additional 5 percent out of escrow.. So giving the players there own money back..Not going too happen
I read that Da Costa and Weircioch make their debut tonight
Zibanejad-Pageau-Silfverberg
Hoffman-Cannone-Petersson
Cowick-Grant-Stone
Dziurzynski-Downing-Jessiman
Cowen-Benoit
Borowiecki-Gryba
Claesson-Eckford
Lehner
They won't like that in the least bit. Essentially its a different way of wording a salary cut.
What we also haven't heard is if the 50/d0 split will last for the entire CBA contract. I'm willing to be it won't. It will almost for sure go up on the league's side every year by 1 or 2 percent.
That to me is a bunch of BS only because the PA won't accept it since yes it moves more towards the players but is still a big reduction in HRR split.
The other thing that bothers me is that Betman oh so casually admited to the media that he is giving out more info than he usually does about his proposals but he only gave out enough info to make it look like the league made an unbelievable offer.
That is not the case. Yes they took a step forward which is good but essentially it was a major scheme to get the fans on their side.
Still I hope its a solid enough offer to generate enough interest from the players to make their 1st substantial offer. I guess we'll find out soon enough
http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/147098/1/watch-ahl:-binghamton-senators-vs-rochester-americans.html
And Zibanejad is good.
Interesting next 9-10 days.
There is a provision that for the $$ 'given back' by the players to get to 50% will be calculated and paid back to them every year over the life of the contract..
yes but those drag moves dont work too well in the big leagues
Quoting jasonboucher:
I suspect the league was sitting on this offer from day 1. their first proposal was BS, but Ill bet they were expecting a counter, and to go back and forth until they had accomplished something closer to 51/49 for the league... with no counter proposal (the PA calling the leagues BS) the NHL finally caved and presented their real offer
Quoting Mat:
Great release, but like I said above, drag moves like that only work in the AHL
Drag moves work in the NHL but you have to have good hands to pull them off like Rick Nash, Jason Spezza or Steven Stamkos...remem ber the Spezza goal vs kings coming down on the far side...:P
Exactly what a WELCHER would say.
It's time to fire Brownie the Clownie and promote Grady
when the NHL starts up again.
I would like to see Pat Cannone centre Zbad and Silfverberg. I don't think Pageau is the right guy for those two.
Freeeeeeeeeeeee eeebird! Sorry, couldn't help myself!
Agree that Brown/Wilson need to go and fast. They spend their games talking about their lawn mowers or imaginary people in the stands then miss half the play. Bob Cole is getting pretty bad but at leat he's in his 70s...Dean and Gord are just lazy at their jobs.
WTF did he say Karl Hungus Girgensons?
Fantastic point as always Tooks.
At this point the NHLPA is basically in a corner. They give up 70% but with revenues growing they'll make that back in a few years.
Get it done Fehr...
Second assist from Cowen tonight
Exactly what a WELCHER's sycophant would say.
Hoffman looks like a star in the making.
A trillion times better than Bob Cole. The only reason he is there is because he is uber biased to the toronto maple losers and because hes uber old and has been with the Cole broadcasting company (cbc) for 70 years.
In summary Cole should be gone and Whittenburg in.
25-20 Bingo
Not to mention gryba has actually been our best dman in exhibition games for the past 2 seasons (cowen included)
Go BSENS go!!
And NHLPA, stop posturing and make your counter-proposa l and sign! Get those arena workers and servers back to work, amongst others! They need this more than ANYONE else Involved in this shoddy debacle of a 'conflict.'
Quoting timwrx:
Yup
man dzurkinskiofjei ofjoeifowepfowe d (spelling?) is good
3rd Star: Eric Gryba
2nd Star: Robin Lehner
1sr Star: David Dziurzynski
Honourable mention: Patrick Wiercioch 1st game back and made an impact with the game winning goal.
Cowen had a good game also with 2 assists but his play seems a bit flat tonight not sure if you guys agree, but he did not seem very noticeable out there for a big guy. Def notice Gryba though.
Not at all impressed with borowieki so far. Stay out of the box!
He had ridiculous stats his last year of junior. This guy can flat out play. He creates offense very easily.
With his size it was obviously going to take some time to adjust to playing against bigger and faster players but everyone should have known he'd be a solid player.
Players shouldn't be judged on their draft number it how they play.
He is definitely a beauty
Question with Hoffman is, what is he in he NHL? I would think he projects as a third liner that can chip in offensively but can't help but wonder if he gets packaged with a couple other prospects at some point this year in search of a proven scorer.
I really like Gryba, Hoffman, Wiercioch, and Dzuirzysnki. Glad to see they all had success tonight.
Calgary Hitmen beat Prince George 5-0. #Sens prospect Chris Driedger had the 30 save shutout. Hitmen threw 53 shots on the Cougars goal.
makes him 6-1-1 with 1SO. 2.56GAA and .914 %
françois brassard 7-1-0 2SO. 1.87GAA and .926 %
Thanks Moe. Your posts are always informative.
Ottawa Senators with LOTS of goalie depth ? GASP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIMy1Zt64Hc&feature=plcp
Lehner was in beast mode again last night, not much of a chance on the one he let in. Zibby has been one of the best players so far in the pre-season/seas on night in and night out. Silf seems to go quiet frequently...I love that shot of his, and he's still prob adjusting (hopefully). Coach is prob still settling in as well, they will definatively improve every game.
Just my 2 cents from last night's feed.