Saturday, 25 August 2012 09:36

COTW- Finding Positives in a Lockout

As much as we all try to pretend it's not there, the lockout possibility looming over the National Hockey League is very real.

That September 15th deadline is approaching quickly and there has been seemingly zero progress between the two sides.  With that in mind, another excellent entry for Chirp of the Week that looks a little closer at the lockout possibility and how it may benefit the Ottawa Senators.

LOCKOUT 2012- A SILVER LINING?

It can be said with confidence that anyone reading a Senators blog in August is likely someone who’s hoping a miracle happens and the 2012-13 NHL season starts on time. I certainly am. But if we think about it, does a lockout have the potential to actually help the Senators? Here are a few scenarios and my own thoughts on the impact to the Senators specifically. While it’s frustrating that we might be robbed of another hockey season (or part of one) there is some solace to be taken for Sens fans that we can cling to while waiting for hockey to start up again.

Worst case: No season at all

Well I guess if you listen to some people it could even be two seasons we lose, but let’s try not to think about that. There are definite downsides for the Senators as there are to some degree for all NHL teams. A full season gone will hurt season ticket sales more in Ottawa than many other markets. The Senators are not a money-making team. We all know that Melnyk is not making a profit and we should feel lucky to have an owner that loves the game enough to allow Bryan Murray to be competitive in the NHL, even if it’s on a budget of sorts. But a year or longer without any income for the team while still having to pay support staff and other operating expenses will hurt. Other teams in the province (for example) will recover any losses from the lockout in the first year back, we won’t be so lucky.

So that silver lining then? Well beyond the fact that Melnyk is more likely than previous owners to continue to invest in the team despite the losses from a lockout, there really is little chance that the Senators were going to contend this season. While there’s always a chance we could see another surprise playoff finish and maybe even a first round upset, the odds are beyond slim. What can’t be denied is that (barring anything unexpected) this team is going to be better each year for the next few years at least. With only a few players on the decline in their careers and so many young players expected to improve, our team is situated nicely (some might argue better than most teams in the NHL) to be very strong by the time guys like Karlsson and Turris are in their mid 20s and beyond. So while teams like Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Vancouver would lose a year (or more) in which they expect to contend for a cup, we’re not giving up any realistic shot at a parade. Put another way, I’d much rather see a lockout now than when guys like Noesen, Silfverberg, Lehner etc are in their prime years.

Scenario B: Shortened season

This scenario is interesting to me and also seems like the most likely at this point. Most “talking heads” are predicting somewhere between a 40 and 60 game season. The idea being that as more games are lost, the pressure on the owners ramps up to the point where they will concede somewhat to the NHLPA and a deal gets done. Big markets will be happy to lose a whole season or more to get the CBA they want, but smaller markets and eventually some of the mid-range markets cannot afford to wait that long. I think Phoenix is our ace-in-the-hole to a degree in that Bettman and the NHL do not want that franchise moved (or else they’d be in Quebec already). So that said, I think any prolonged lockout effectively puts the Coyotes out of their misery but since Bettman wants to keep that team there, the pressure is on to get a deal done before Phoenix officially flatlines.

So does a shortened season help the Senators? Or at least hurt us less than some other teams? Consider that if we assume guys like Cowen, Silfverberg and Zibanejad play in the AHL they’re progression really doesn’t slow down much at all. Silf and Z-bad in particular need some time to get familiar with North American ice. Of course other teams will have prospects playing in the AHL and other players playing elsewhere during the lockout, but most people who are hoping Ottawa contends for a playoff spot this coming season are basing that hope to a large extent on one or two rookies breaking through right away. A later start to the year makes that a bit more possible. A shorter season also makes the entire NHL a bit more volatile. A nice little hot streak goes a lot further in a 40 game season than an 82 game season. So for those hoping the Sens can overachieve again this year, a shorter season increases those odds. Last but certainly not least, there’s our captain. It’s no secret he’s finally starting to show his age (or maybe just finally looking 30+). One has to assume that a shorter schedule allows him to show more jump day-in, day-out than a full one would. And as we all know, the more we get from Alfie, the better the team seems to do.

Scenario C: Owners get their way

So whether it’s sooner or later, suppose the owners get their way (again). Without knowing all the specifics, one would assume this means things like salary rollbacks of some sort and possibly the cap going down. Relative to other teams, this does seem to help Ottawa. Lower salaries is a given since this team doesn’t make money, but that seems somewhat universal in terms of competitive balance. A lower cap however seems to help Ottawa more than the average team – certainly more than it would help the richer teams. We have almost zero “cap garbage” right now. We have Butler’s tiny buy-out and Gonchar’s salary for another year but that’s about it. Relative to the rest of the NHL we really don’t have any overpaid players. Spezza’s $7M hit (currently) doesn’t look bad compared to other top players in the league. Karlsson’s deal looks like a bargain compared to recent signings as well. Add to that the fact that we’re at or near the floor (currently) so we have as much cap flexibility as possible. So should the cap go down considerably, we’d be in a great position to make some moves or simply keep what we have while other teams might be forced to trade away players they’d rather keep just for the cap room.

Scenario D: Players get their way

So the players’ position is a bit tough to nail down. On the very surface, they appear to be trying to increase “competitive balance” and make it easier for small market teams to compete – all of which would be good for Ottawa. But we all know that deep down what they’re looking to do is carve out as much of the pie for themselves as possible. If the cap were to go up or if the new CBA was such that the cap would continue to climb as it has, one has to think that hurts Ottawa overall. Melnyk has spent to the cap before and would likely do so again if he felt the team was ready to “make a run”, but if the cap gets much higher can he really afford to? Or would he be more selective about when he was willing to? If the cap gets much higher I think the chances of Melnyk being willing/able to let Murray use it all get less and less. And while teams can build through the draft and stand aside when other teams overpay for free agents, it does make it a lot harder to have any prolonged success. Unless the NHLPA really backs up the early PR and fights for a “fair deal that allows all teams to compete”, I have to assume a big NHLPA win hurts Ottawa more than most other teams.

So what do we wish for?

I’m going to assume that no matter what the silver lining might be, we’re all still going to hope for this season to somehow start on time. That seems unlikely of course, and doubly unlikely that it starts on time with some sort of owner-friendly CBA given that Fehr and the NHLPA are not about to let the owners “win” again. But as much as it would suck to miss out on part of an NHL season again so soon after the last lockout, I think the best case for the Senators fans is the idea of a shortened season. If the season ends up being 40 games we’d have Silfverberg and Zibanejad more “NHL ready” after half a season in Bingo, Alfredsson at 100% and raring to go (not to mention Gonchar, Phillips etc) and a realistic shot to put a few win streaks up to grab another playoff spot. Then who knows? Another consolation is that we’d have the opportunity to watch our exciting prospects play in Bingo (either via a road trip or two or on TV as I assume a prolonged lockout will lead to SportsNet and others televising AHL games). So personally, as we all go about preparing for a possible lockout in our own way, I’m going to cling to the notion that a partial season means a better shot at more playoff hockey in 2013.

Comments   Jump to Last Post

 
+2 #1 Hax 2012-08-25 09:38
Great COTW! I wonder who wrote it ;)
Quote
 
 
-2 #2 Dirtysweet 2012-08-25 09:51
Nice job Tookie!! ;-)
Quote
 
 
+2 #3 Frank Frankster 2012-08-25 10:18
Yea Not bad of a COTW, but the part where you say Alfie is starting to show his age? That comment doesn't really make sense considering he improved his totals and play this past year as opposed to the past several years.

And Ottawa has zero or a very slim chance to make playoffs/a long playoff run? Why would that be, if we win game 7 this past season, the world would have seen the Sens 2007 (2.0) lose to a better Western team in the Finals. (Philly had won their cup already when they beat Pittsburgh and New Jersey would have probably been close but in the end we "should" have been able to beat them)

So why not believe that (with a team that is supposed to have stabilized it's D, and have an even better F crop with all the young studs and lets not forget big bad marshmallow Lantendress) that they can't go on a long run.

Remember our coach is of the Red Wings model/product now, so that means always being in contention!
Quote
 
 
0 #4 Sensnation 2012-08-25 10:59
Well written article, though there is quite a bit I disagree with.

Overall I'd sum it up as Ottawa only has space for 1 rookie forward, the only way more than 1 make it on the NHL team is through a big amount of injuries, or the more likely scenario that the rookies are actually ready to contribute at the NHL level. Even without these rookies though, we still have a slightly improved team from last year with a bit more experience. The Sens are a playoff team this year, no matter when the season starts. The only exception to that for me is if Spezza goes down for a significant amount of time.

I guess the writer will be surprised if that happens, but you can no longer call it over performing if it keeps happening year in and year out with strong peripheral stats. At what point do we just accept that Clouston's team underperformed?

I also don't think the NHLPA winning would hurt the Sens, as the deal they want is to help small market teams compete against the big ones. So yes the cap goes up, but so would the shared revenue portion that Ottawa would see. Ottawa is also in a great position cap wise. Just my opinion. Still a good article though, good job!
Quote
 
 
+1 #5 Mr Hockey 2012-08-25 11:08
I'm hoping someone can clear up some of my confusion with the issues between the NHL/NHLPA. The biggest issue seems to be revenue sharing with the players not wanting to give up too much percentage of their shared revenue/and the owners wanting a larger percentage. Does that mean the players get a piece of the profit on top of their salaries, or does their share determine the max cap hit or something?

Also well done on the COTW Hax. Keep em coming
Quote
 
 
0 #6 conor_smythe 2012-08-25 11:17
I've often thought about the lockout as having positive benefits for this.club when compared.to other teams around the league. Murray has done a great job of trimming the fat prelockout and setting the.club up nicely if other (mismanaged) teams need to move some talent.

Another interesting point is the players idea to be able to trade cap space. With over 20 million in space, and the draft as our priority, you've got to think Murray is licking his chops at the idea.of trading off some unused.budget for 1st round picks

as I said, I think Ottawa is one of the best prepared teams in the event of a lockout. But silver lining schmilver lining. I wants me some hockey
Quote
 
 
+2 #7 Sandy 2012-08-25 12:42
Enjoyable read thank you.

I'm hoping & praying no lockout or strike (I still would not put it past Fehr to do that) but the outcome looks bleak.

They really have had no negotiations.. just discussions and comments made through the media/twitter to win fan support.

I assume Cowen is the only player on 2-way that the Sens could send to Binghamton in the event a lockout does happen? That wouldn't hurt him.

Question is how prepared are the players to lose salary? They lost a full season (well a lot of them did) with no income. Does Fehr actually think they will sit out for 2 yrs with no income? I realize they are not poor... but still it is not ideal for them. They will never make up what they lose... and to get to play they would have to accept the owners terms (as the owners will not cave in) and take a rollback.

The only owners that will get desperate are Nashville & Minnesota after paying out those huge signing bonuses.

As for Melnyk, I assume he will get income (some anyway) from having the 67's play at SBP this season.. I plan to attend quite a few games there if no NHL. I'm tentatively planning a Bingo trip in October...

I can't believe the owners or the players think that another work stoppage would sit well with the fans. All the growth in the US will be lost and then they have to start over. They may never get back to where they were last season.

How much clout will NBC have in this. They paid $200M to get the rights... but if fans are pissed... they won't get much viewership.

Then also what about the Corporate Sponsors.. do you think they are happy with this?

Both sides have a lot to think about.
Quote
 
 
0 #8 hussain 2012-08-25 12:44
So how much has Melnyk actually lost,these past few years?
Quote
 
 
+2 #9 Sandy 2012-08-25 13:50
Does anyone know if Binghamton is having part of it's training camp in Ottawa? Anything open to the public?
Quote
 
 
+2 #10 jakester 2012-08-25 13:51
I can see a scenario where 2 and maybe even 3 rookies crack the forward corps this season.

Example

Michalek-Spezza-Stone
Latendresse-Turris-Alfie
Regin-Zibby-Silfverberg
Greening-Smith-Neil

Ok Condra-Daug-O'B rien - something would have to be done to get rid of at least 2 of these guys. I think Stone on that first line with Michalek and Spezza would really be the best thing for him. I think this could potentially be our best lineup barring any trades of course. Lets drop the puck already!
Quote
 
 
0 #11 Hax 2012-08-25 14:29
Quoting Frank Frankster:
Yea Not bad of a COTW, but the part where you say Alfie is starting to show his age?

...

And Ottawa has zero or a very slim chance to make playoffs/a long playoff run? Why would that be

...

Remember our coach is of the Red Wings model/product now, so that means always being in contention!


On Alfie, while he's still contributing I do see him looking mortal instead of ageless. He's killing penalties less and getting a little bit less ice time which I think is making up for the fact that he's got slightly less jump than he did 5 years ago. Not for a minute saying he's not still amazing or that he can't do it over 82 games, I just think if it's a shorter season he's even more likely to look ageless.

I'm also not saying it's impossible for us to do even better than last year, but I feel last year saw way more "positive luck" than negative so if we replayed last year 100 times over we probably make the playoffs 40 times or maybe less. As for whether or not this year's team is better right away than last year's, I'm not sure. I like the changes we've made for the most part but more because they either help us in the long run or at the very least don't hurt us.

And I do agree (and stated in the article) that our team should improve steadily for the next few years - so you're bang on the with Red Wing comment.

Appreciate the feedback!
Quote
 
 
0 #12 Hax 2012-08-25 14:33
Quoting Sensnation:
Well written article, though there is quite a bit I disagree with.

...

I guess the writer will be surprised if that happens, but you can no longer call it over performing if it keeps happening year in and year out with strong peripheral stats. At what point do we just accept that Clouston's team underperformed?

I also don't think the NHLPA winning would hurt the Sens, as the deal they want is to help small market teams compete against the big ones. So yes the cap goes up, but so would the shared revenue portion that Ottawa would see. Ottawa is also in a great position cap wise. Just my opinion. Still a good article though, good job!


I would be surprised (but not shocked) if the Sens are a playoff team again. I think last year we had more things go right than go wrong and those things often tend to even out. I think we've made some good moves this summer but I don't think we're necessarily a lot better right away (lots of players still developing). I'll be happy to be wrong of course and see us in the playoffs - and certainly not saying it's impossible.

And yes, if the NHLPA gets the deal they proposed then that should help the Sens and other small market teams. I just find it a little hard to believe that Fehr is going to be that altruistic - I expect the PA really wants to get as big a chunk of revenue sharing as possible and really isn't too worried about parity.
Quote
 
 
0 #13 Hax 2012-08-25 14:36
Quoting jakester:
I can see a scenario where 2 and maybe even 3 rookies crack the forward corps this season.

Example

Michalek-Spezza-Stone
Latendresse-Turris-Alfie
Regin-Zibby-Silfverberg
Greening-Smith-Neil

Ok Condra-Daug-O'Brien - something would have to be done to get rid of at least 2 of these guys. I think Stone on that first line with Michalek and Spezza would really be the best thing for him. I think this could potentially be our best lineup barring any trades of course. Lets drop the puck already!


I think Murray is thinking along those lines as well. i.e. if more than one rookie looks ready to make the team at forward, he'll pull the trigger on some sort of Q4Q trade or even move roster players out for picks/prospects to make room. If the season starts on time, having Silfverberg and Zibanejad start in Bingo while Murray works on a trade will not hurt them at all - there's no major rush.
Quote
 
 
0 #14 richardson711 2012-08-25 14:58
I am a little confused. since the last lockout the nhl revenue has increased significantly. so if the nhl has made so much more money since the lockout why are they in such an unacceptable position with the current cba?

where is the increased revenue coming from specifically??

are the rich teams getting richer and the poor teams still staying the same with the current revenue sharing??

AND is the nhl revenue before all nhl expenses?? ie. is the revenue going up faster than the expenses?
Quote
 
 
0 #15 57gord 2012-08-25 15:50
I always thought it would be a great idea to apply the cap only to free agents. So if you draft well you don't loose players you can't keep anymore 'cause it would put you over the cap, know what I mean? Thoughts....... ...?
Quote
 
 
0 #16 simple jack 2012-08-25 15:59
Quoting jakester:
I can see a scenario where 2 and maybe even 3 rookies crack the forward corps this season.

Example

Michalek-Spezza-Stone
Latendresse-Turris-Alfie
Regin-Zibby-Silfverberg
Greening-Smith-Neil

Ok Condra-Daug-O'Brien - something would have to be done to get rid of at least 2 of these guys. I think Stone on that first line with Michalek and Spezza would really be the best thing for him. I think this could potentially be our best lineup barring any trades of course. Lets drop the puck already!


I like stone on the first line because i dont think he`ll be a target as much as silfverberg and zibanejad would be. Stone would also stick up for spezza and have enough size and fight to camp out in front of the net or in the slot.

I would give stone first crack at the 1st line and let silfverberg get used to the hitting in the nhl, there will be an adjustment he'll need to make on the physical part more than just the smaller rink size. Michalek's speed on the backcheck could help balance stone's speedwhile he adjusts to the nhl.

Just my thoughts.
Quote
 
 
0 #17 simple jack 2012-08-25 16:06
About the lockout,

If there's no nhl season i will buy an ahl package, but might be per game instead of a season pass because of the possible shortened nhl season.

Also depends if the ahl offers hd feeds this year anticipating higher viewership from the nhl lockout, maybe the sens could lend bingo some hd camera equipment.
Quote
 
 
0 #18 Hax 2012-08-25 17:06
Quoting 57gord:
I always thought it would be a great idea to apply the cap only to free agents. So if you draft well you don't loose players you can't keep anymore 'cause it would put you over the cap, know what I mean? Thoughts..........?


Good concept. Not sure if it would be possible to have those contracts not part of the cap at all, but maybe some sort of percentage thing. I'm all for anything that encourages players to play for one team their entire career - but you'd still want to allow some movement. Part of drafting well is that you can make trades with teams that don't.
Quote
 
 
0 #19 timwrx 2012-08-25 17:15
Quoting Sandy:
Does anyone know if Binghamton is having part of it's training camp in Ottawa? Anything open to the public?


Only thing i know about Binghamton's preseason are 2 games at the barn and one in Hershey.
Quote
 
 
0 #20 Sandy 2012-08-25 17:21
Quoting timwrx:
Quoting Sandy:
Does anyone know if Binghamton is having part of it's training camp in Ottawa? Anything open to the public?


Only thing i know about Binghamton's preseason are 2 games at the barn and one in Hershey.


I know in the past both the Ottawa & Bingo Sens have had their testing done in Ottawa and have had the training camp combined for a certain amount of time. Not sure what happens this year.
Quote
 
 
+2 #21 RUSHRLZ 2012-08-25 19:05
Very solid guest post! As one of the controversial members here I am really glad you chose to contribute something.

A lot of what you discuss is conjecture on possible CBA outcomes and how they may impact our club. I've also given this a lot of though and all I can say is that if it must come to this (lockout), I'm hoping it can make our franchise stronger and help us stay as competitive as we have been the past decade.

I'm not sure why the owners pitched continued revenue sharing at all, but they have done this albeit at a vastly reduced percentage. I hope they can figure this out to the point where at least 26 franchises can be consistently profitable despite inflation caused by the revenue producing giants in the league. Sens with such solid attendance and always icing a competitive team you would think we are amongst the healthier franchises and where The Euge and all the risks he assumes as owner can tuck away a cozy profit... If we really are struggling to break even, that should be alarm bells league wide, as much for the players as anyone else.

I'd like to see something along the lines of a consistent 40M floor and 60M cap that everyone should be able to healthily operate under and those that cannot... in joint decisions with the NHLPA help determine a healthier market in which to move them. Hello Quebec City. Make the players a voice in that level of biz decisions.

Get that done, create a pool of 28-30 very healthy NHL franchises and then reassess things in six or eight years.

A shortened season (pretty much inevitable at this point) could bode well for our Sens (+Jets) who seem to have a knack for strong 60-games-in sort of results. Strong start and surprisingly strong team efforts? At the 50-60 game point last season we were battling for the Northeast...

Cheers from a guy that appreciates the Tookie factor on SC and who is about 13 beers into his Keystone Light 2-4 at the present moment.
Quote
 
 
+1 #22 Sens-sational 2012-08-25 21:30
Michalek-Spezza-Stone
Latendresse-Turris-Alfie
Regin-Zibby-Silfverberg
Greening-Smith-Neil

Really like these lines- my fav so far. But line 3 does raise an eyebrow. In order for line 4 to be that solid, we need 3 to be reliable. Can an often-injured Regin play consistently with a young Silfverberg and Zibanejad?
Quote
 
 
-1 #23 RUSHRLZ 2012-08-25 21:33
Quoting Sens-sational:
Michalek-Spezza-Stone
Latendresse-Turris-Alfie
Regin-Zibby-Silfverberg
Greening-Smith-Neil

Really like these lines- my fav so far. But line 3 does raise an eyebrow. In order for line 4 to be that solid, we need 3 to be reliable. Can an often-injured Regin play consistently with a young Silfverberg and Zibanejad?


I love the stone enthusiasm, but who is to say it would be good for Silf development to have him languish on the third line?
Quote
 
 
0 #24 Sens-sational 2012-08-25 21:39
Quoting RUSHRLZ:
Quoting Sens-sational:
Michalek-Spezza-Stone
Latendresse-Turris-Alfie
Regin-Zibby-Silfverberg
Greening-Smith-Neil

Really like these lines- my fav so far. But line 3 does raise an eyebrow. In order for line 4 to be that solid, we need 3 to be reliable. Can an often-injured Regin play consistently with a young Silfverberg and Zibanejad?
.

I love the stone enthusiasm, but who is to say it would be good for Silf development to have him languish on the third line?


Switch Latendresse for Silfverberg? Might be good for both.
Quote
 
 
+1 #25 x N!C x 2012-08-25 21:55
Hey Chirp,

Booza pa looza 2 in three weeks. You in?
Quote
 
 
0 #26 jakester 2012-08-25 22:17
Michalek-Spezza-Stone
Latendresse-Turris-Alfie
Regin-Zibby-Silfverberg
Greening-Smith-Neil

3rd line is the Scandanavian Connection.

I think Stone needs that Great Centerman to play with - like Huberdeau at the World Juniors. Stone has a great release and has great hands and vision when passing the puck also. Michalek does all the dirty work for Spezza with his speed + can pot goals.
Quote
 
 
+1 #27 SensChirp 2012-08-26 09:43
Quoting x N!C x:
Hey Chirp,

Booza pa looza 2 in three weeks. You in?

Hmm.
Quote
 
 
0 #28 Schnellblsy 2012-08-26 10:57
Great post, particularly in the absence of any interesting hockey news!

Somewhat disagree with the following statement: "We all know that Melnyk is not making a profit..."

While the hockey operation does not turn a profit on paper, it is my understanding that the operation of Scotiabank Place (which Melnyk keeps separate) does turn a healthy profit and the Sens are one of the main reasons for this (parking, concessions, merchandise, etc.)
Quote
 
 
+1 #29 MattZ 2012-08-26 11:07
Michalek-Spezza-Stone
Silfverberg-Turris-Alfie
Latendresse-Smith-Regin
Greening-J.O.B-Neil

How does that sound?

Also Corey Perry is going to be an UFA in a year so how would it sound to pick him up? He has ties with Bryan Murray
Quote
 
 
0 #30 Floridasensfan 2012-08-26 11:31
Great write up.

I more or less agree with everything, I would also say I think Melnyk is making money with the Sens the way we are and he likes it, when we were at the cap with brutal contracts whole other story, I think he wants to keep things under control as far as spending if he can help it.
He would rather make money with the team, especially being the fans are happy with the product.

Even if we have a 40 game season it will give us a look at Latendresse Silverburg Zibby Stone Methot Lundin and make adjustments the season after.

kind of a warm up to 2013/14 as Hax more or less said.
Quote
 
 
+4 #31 Sandy 2012-08-26 12:43
Something to put a smile on your faces this Sunday afternoon:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/essentials-toronto-maple-leafs-edition-163944483--nhl.html

The best part for me:

"The Leafs are the only team that missed the playoffs through the entirety of a CBA. A franchise that went an entire decade without a single .500 season. An organization without a single Calder, Hart, Conn Smyth, Art Ross, Vezina or Norris trophy winner in the last 45 seasons.."

And what do the Leafs' fans have to brag about again?
Quote
 
 
+2 #32 St Nick 2012-08-26 12:53
January 2013

To Winnipeg: Bishop, Regin & Condra
To Ottawa: Dustin Byfuglien RD

Hoffman - Spezza - Michalek
Latendresse - Turris - Alfredsson
Silfverberg - Zibanejad - Stone
Greening - Z. Smith - Neil/JOB/Daugavins

Cowen - Karlsson
Methot - Byfuglien
Phillips - Gonchar/Lundin

Anderson - Lehner
(Bishop traded)
Quote
 
 
+1 #33 Daybreak Maidenhead 2012-08-26 13:55
Quoting Sandy:
Something to put a smile on your faces this Sunday afternoon:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/essentials-toronto-maple-leafs-edition-163944483--nhl.html

The best part for me:

"The Leafs are the only team that missed the playoffs through the entirety of a CBA. A franchise that went an entire decade without a single .500 season. An organization without a single Calder, Hart, Conn Smyth, Art Ross, Vezina or Norris trophy winner in the last 45 seasons.."

And what do the Leafs' fans have to brag about again?


And last won a Stanley Cup in a 6 team league.

They haven't handled expansion very well.
Quote
 
 
0 #34 Trilby LaRue 2012-08-26 14:02
Quoting Sandy:
Something to put a smile on your faces this Sunday afternoon:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/essentials-toronto-maple-leafs-edition-163944483--nhl.html

The best part for me:

"The Leafs are the only team that missed the playoffs through the entirety of a CBA. A franchise that went an entire decade without a single .500 season. An organization without a single Calder, Hart, Conn Smyth, Art Ross, Vezina or Norris trophy winner in the last 45 seasons.."

And what do the Leafs' fans have to brag about again?


"Glen Healy's uninformed vitriol" - YEP !
Quote
 
 
0 #35 Floridasensfan 2012-08-26 16:19
I was paying close to 300 a year for Center Ice and now they have a special sports package that includes center ice for about 110.00 and we are looking like there will not be hockey, that sucks.

Wonder if they include Center Ice figuring there will be nothing to watch on it.

On the Leaf conversation, there just is no end to their patheticness (not a word Patheticness but their should be and the definition = Leafs
Quote
 
 
0 #36 SIMMAN 2012-08-26 16:59
Competivenss
I am looking for a result that ensures league wide competiveness. Fehr always omes back to the MLB example saying that baseball has labor peace. They also have the widess team salary disparity and it is no surprise that teams such as the Yakees and Red Sox as annual playoff teams. Sure Tampa and Florida have won but they are unable to sustain it as there players reach free agency.
I realize that the owners seem greedy in this current situation but the players would love a situation where the top 6 or 7 teams get to set the salary bar (eg. Philly/Weber). I gave up on baeball after the last strike and the loss of the Expos. I do not want to see this again.
Quote
 
 
0 #37 Sandy 2012-08-26 17:31
Quoting SIMMAN:
Competivenss
I am looking for a result that ensures league wide competiveness. Fehr always omes back to the MLB example saying that baseball has labor peace. They also have the widess team salary disparity and it is no surprise that teams such as the Yakees and Red Sox as annual playoff teams. Sure Tampa and Florida have won but they are unable to sustain it as there players reach free agency.
I realize that the owners seem greedy in this current situation but the players would love a situation where the top 6 or 7 teams get to set the salary bar (eg. Philly/Weber). I gave up on baeball after the last strike and the loss of the Expos. I do not want to see this again.


The players that would be on those 6 or 7 teams would love it to have the best chance to win all the time. But the players on the other 23 or 24 teams would not like it too much would they. There are only about 23 players per team... so most would be very unhappy at the thought of having no chance to win.
Quote
 
 
0 #38 SIMMAN 2012-08-26 18:11
[The players that would be on those 6 or 7 teams would love it to have the best chance to win all the time. But the players on the other 23 or 24 teams would not like it too much would they. There are only about 23 players per team... so most would be very unhappy at the thought of having no chance to win.
With arbitration and free agency all players salaries would rise due the competitiopn amongst the top teams. In addition there would be a two tiered system where young players would aspire to join the top teams as they reach free agency or even before. They are all aspirational and you do not see good players in MLB complaining about the MLB system. All the players benefit. It is the fans of the Pittsburgs and Kansas City's of the league that suffer. They may get lucky and have a good season but they will never be able to sustain excellence.
Quote
 
 
0 #39 spezzerman 2012-08-26 19:44
Great read Hax, thanks for that!

One of the more exciting things this season for the Sens would be to watch how our young skilled guys do in their first full pro NA season. At least we can still enjoy that for the most part since most seem likely to be in Bingo next year.

That will help me get through this lockout tremendously.
Quote
 
 
0 #40 Bruinblaster 2012-08-27 07:25
I could see Boston picking up Gryba, Their prospect defense is small.
Quote
 
 
0 #41 chadillac 2012-08-27 07:30
Great post. It made me think of another reason why the season may not be shortened. This time, the league has a lucrative TV deal with NBC. After some quick research though, the owner's get paid regardless and another year gets tacked onto the contract. Damn.
Quote
 
 
-1 #42 conservativeHippie 2012-08-27 09:28
If I were the owners, I would say sign by this Friday or you're looking at non-guaranteed contracts like the NFL.
Quote
 
 
0 #43 thepez 2012-08-27 09:54
Quoting conservativeHippie:
If I were the owners, I would say sign by this Friday or you're looking at non-guaranteed contracts like the NFL.


What would that solve? The owners would then offer ridiculous amounts up front.

This whole CBA talk is a farce. It does not matter what agreement they come up with as long as the owners allow themselves to offer ridiculous contracts. Why would the players want a different system? We have already seen teams including the Senators make signings prior to September 15th so that they can lock up their players no matter the agreement. The owners have given the GM's the go ahead for this and then they cry out we need to pay out less to the players?

Like I said this whole CBA talk is one giant farce. The people who will end up paying for it will be us the fans at the gate and at the fan shops.
Quote
 
 
0 #44 jasonontheoldsenschirp 2012-08-27 10:28
Sens' Top 10 prospects:

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1366

We're set man! Interesting how high he ranks Prince. He could be the steal of the draft for us..
Quote
 
 
0 #45 Sensnation 2012-08-27 11:08
Quoting jasonontheoldsenschirp:
Sens' Top 10 prospects:

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1366

We're set man! Interesting how high he ranks Prince. He could be the steal of the draft for us..


Is that a real ranking or just some Joe Schmo? Lehner 12th is ridiculously low. Ceci at 2nd and Wiercioch at 8 seem way too high, and Noesen at 7 seems low as well. I guess it's just one groups opinion, but it seems pretty random where he's put some guys.
Quote
 
 
+1 #46 Daybreak Maidenhead 2012-08-27 11:14
Quoting jasonontheoldsenschirp:
Sens' Top 10 prospects:

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1366

We're set man! Interesting how high he ranks Prince. He could be the steal of the draft for us..


An interesting read - thanks for the link, Jason.

"one man's opinion" but Lehner at 12th makes me go hmmmmmmm ?
Quote
 
 
0 #47 Misaow 2012-08-27 11:30
Silf 3rd is too low imo... above average second liner... i guess if he turns out like Alfie i'm ok with it.
Quote
 
 
0 #48 FAT ALBERT 2012-08-27 11:47
If a lockout oes happen for a couple of months and our prospects get the needed AHL time, I could see the lineup like this.

Michalek- Spezza- Stone
Silfverberg- Turris- Alfie
Latendresse- Regin- Zibenejad
Greening- Smith- Neil
Obrien (Condra and Daugy packeged for a dman or picks)

Once Regin and the tender get hurt in January, this will be the revised lineup.

Michalek- Spezza- Stone
Silfverberg- Turris- Alfie
Greening- Smith- Zibenajad
Hoffman/Petersson- Obrien- Neil
Quote
 
 
+1 #49 MethotToMyMadness 2012-08-27 12:54
Quoting Misaow:
Silf 3rd is too low imo... above average second liner... i guess if he turns out like Alfie i'm ok with it.


But we as fans, have been going over and over the prospects for months and taking so much info into consideration. In some regards, many of us have our own thoughts and feelings on who should lead the list. Sometimes it's good to have an outside view of it to get a different perspective.

I can see Zibanejad leading the list, simply because of where he was drafted and his potential. Sure Ceci at 2 doesn't seem right but he hasn't had the same time to show otherwise, so where he was drafted and him being so new to the org, he'll be high on any list until he's been over viewed.

The one I don't agree with is Lehner out of the top 10. It almost seems to me they are putting more focus on F/D than anything. Overall I'd have Lehner at least in the 4th or 5th position.
Quote
 
 
0 #50 383 2012-08-27 13:08
Saw the list and would have to agree with the majority here, Lehner should have been in the top 3 or 5 for sure.

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it strange that almost every blogger/hockey insider, who ranks our prospects ALWAYS has Da Costa in the Top 5?

I'm not disagreeing with it, just based on the conversations on this board amongst others that definitley does not seem to be the case.

My personal sens top 10 prospects:

1. MZ93
2. Lehner
3. Ceci
4. Sliverberg
5. Stone
6. Noesen
7. Prince
8. Puempel
9. Da Costa
10. Weircoch

Honourable mentions-Hoffman/Borowiecki/Petersson

Anyone else?
Quote
 
 
+2 #51 senskarlsson57 2012-08-27 13:22
Anybody see the top-40 centres ranking on NHL.com? Spezza inside the top-12! Finally some respect for the guy...but also JVR made it ahead of guys like Adam Henrique, Fisher, Brayden Schenn, and Turris? ...for fucks sakes the guy hasn't even played centre at the NHL level consistently yet.


...I guess the guys over at NHL.com just have to make the Leafs fanbase happy
Quote
 
 
0 #52 Sensnation 2012-08-27 13:29
Quoting 383:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it strange that almost every blogger/hockey insider, who ranks our prospects ALWAYS has Da Costa in the Top 5?

I'm not disagreeing with it, just based on the conversations on this board amongst others that definitley does not seem to be the case.


I think Da Costa will be an NHL caliber player. He has the hockey IQ and skills to contribute as 2nd line C or potentially 3rd line scoring C, despite his size. I think if we hadn't acquired Turris a lot more of the fans on this website would be more preoccupied with his development and potential, but as it is, he's currently an outside shot to make the NHL team this year. I could see him taking over Regin's role once the organization moves on from him and Daugavins.
Quote
 
 
0 #53 Sandy 2012-08-27 13:56
Quoting SIMMAN:
[The players that would be on those 6 or 7 teams would love it to have the best chance to win all the time. But the players on the other 23 or 24 teams would not like it too much would they. There are only about 23 players per team... so most would be very unhappy at the thought of having no chance to win.

With arbitration and free agency all players salaries would rise due the competitiopn amongst the top teams. In addition there would be a two tiered system where young players would aspire to join the top teams as they reach free agency or even before. They are all aspirational and you do not see good players in MLB complaining about the MLB system. All the players benefit. It is the fans of the Pittsburgs and Kansas City's of the league that suffer. They may get lucky and have a good season but they will never be able to sustain excellence.

=============================

So what you are saying is the 23 or 24 teams are basically farm teams of the rich. So those 23 or 24 teams will never really have a great chance of competing for a Stanley Cup. They would just see the young talent they have drafted and developed take off to greener pastures. And you are saying that is good for hockey?

Ottawa can't spend with the rich teams. So are you prepared, if your scenario ever came into being, that the Sens would never win a Cup and all their good young prospects fans grow to admire leave for the rich teams.

As a Sens fans... that would totally suck.

It would be an imbalanced league.. and I believe it's revenues would drop overall...
Quote
 
 
0 #54 MethotToMyMadness 2012-08-27 14:14
With Vancouver signing Eddie Lack to a two-year extension, you know that the axe on the Luongo situation is close to falling.

I think it's fair to say any team that acquires him will have upgraded the position. I guess the real question here is, where will he land. Does anything really think Toronto is the place? Or will he want out of the Canadian market and go back where he was loved in Florida?

Florida sounds great, the team could fill the position with him as Theodore and Clemmensen aren't your typical starters. A move like this gets him out of the Canadian market, which some say interests him. But I can't see them pulling in Luongo to be a starter when Markstrom is SO close behind. It's almost putting him back in the same situation he's in now with Vancouver. And would he want to do that?

As for Toronto, they just don't have a guy in net that is a true starter. It just makes sense that they snag up Luongo to fill that void, which has haunted them for awhile now. And seeing how Burke has handled previous trades as a GM, he seems to downplay any possible connection to rumors, which he's done with Luongo. Then just when people have forgot about it, he pulls the trigger.
Quote
 
 
+2 #55 Luke McQueen 2012-08-27 14:15
I would, personally, have our prospects listed as follows:
Lehner
Silfverberg
Zibanejad
Stone
Noesen
Ceci
Puempel
DaCosta
Prince
Then honourable mention to Borowiecki, Hoffman, Wiercioch, Pageau, Petersson and Claesson.

I put Lehner first as I think he has been the most accomplished in the toughest league.
Silfverberg next for the same reason. The rest are obviously just my best guess but I think this list is representative of a players potential vs what they have actually been able to produce. I would have Hoffman higher as he has been a high end player in the AHL for some time now but I feel he is near his limit. DaCosta is higher as I feel he has shown flashes of real talent, he only needs to add an NHL frame to that skill set. Thoughts?
Quote
 
 
+1 #56 jasonontheoldsenschirp 2012-08-27 14:24
Quoting Sensnation:
Quoting jasonontheoldsenschirp:
Sens' Top 10 prospects:

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1366

We're set man! Interesting how high he ranks Prince. He could be the steal of the draft for us..


Is that a real ranking or just some Joe Schmo? Lehner 12th is ridiculously low. Ceci at 2nd and Wiercioch at 8 seem way too high, and Noesen at 7 seems low as well. I guess it's just one groups opinion, but it seems pretty random where he's put some guys.


He's a pretty reputable scout.

He ranks Lehner as 12th, the same way he ranks goalie prospects in other systems. I don't know why but he ranks goalies in a particular way. If you read some part of the site, he explains how and why he ranks them the way he does. If he ranked goalies the same way as D and F's, Lehner would probably be 1 or 2.

But he's actually a good source for stuff. Very popular on Twitter, too.

Bottom line is that we have a top 3 prospect system in the entire league. You know your wicked deep when you have Stefan Neosen at 7, and Matt Puempel at 9. If these guys pan out the Sens are going to be stupid stacked up front. We'll have top 6 guys forced to play on the third line because of it lol

Just hopin a CBA gets done cuz if not I'm gonna start flippin $&#%
Quote
 
 
-1 #57 TrueSensFan 2012-08-27 14:29
You also have to remember Lehner is still "unproven" and I know a lot of us consider him a top prospect, but he really hasn't done anything to warrant that outside of the run to the Calder. Outside of that and a few game stint with the big club, he has played mediocre at best down in Bingo and that would drop him down a few spots in regards to prospect ranking.
Quote
 
 
+1 #58 spezzerman 2012-08-27 14:40
Quoting TrueSensFan:
You also have to remember Lehner is still "unproven" and I know a lot of us consider him a top prospect, but he really hasn't done anything to warrant that outside of the run to the Calder. Outside of that and a few game stint with the big club, he has played mediocre at best down in Bingo and that would drop him down a few spots in regards to prospect ranking.


As opposed to our "proven" prospects? There are plenty of players on that list who done much less. I think it is more how he ranks goalies. If you look at his other lists, he rarely puts goalies in the top 10.

He is a good follow on twitter, answers all sorts of questions. Not sure what his background is or if he is any more qualified to rank prospects vs you or I.
Quote
 
 
0 #59 TrueSensFan 2012-08-27 14:44
Quoting spezzerman:
Quoting TrueSensFan:
You also have to remember Lehner is still "unproven" and I know a lot of us consider him a top prospect, but he really hasn't done anything to warrant that outside of the run to the Calder. Outside of that and a few game stint with the big club, he has played mediocre at best down in Bingo and that would drop him down a few spots in regards to prospect ranking.


As opposed to our "proven" prospects? There are plenty of players on that list who done much less. I think it is more how he ranks goalies. If you look at his other lists, he rarely puts goalies in the top 10.

He is a good follow on twitter, answers all sorts of questions. Not sure what his background is or if he is any more qualified to rank prospects vs you or I.


I meant in regards to the league they are currently playing in. If you look at guys like Stone, Silf, et all, they have accomplished more at their level than Lehner has outside of the Calder run

But I do hear what you are saying in regards to the ranking
Quote
 
 
0 #60 jasonontheoldsenschirp 2012-08-27 14:47
Here is Cory Pronman's rationale to how he ranks goaltender prospects:

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=216

If you have the time and care to read.
Quote
 
 
0 #61 Sensnation 2012-08-27 14:54
Quoting jasonontheoldsenschirp:
Quoting Sensnation:
Quoting jasonontheoldsenschirp:
Sens' Top 10 prospects:

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1366

We're set man! Interesting how high he ranks Prince. He could be the steal of the draft for us..


Is that a real ranking or just some Joe Schmo? Lehner 12th is ridiculously low. Ceci at 2nd and Wiercioch at 8 seem way too high, and Noesen at 7 seems low as well. I guess it's just one groups opinion, but it seems pretty random where he's put some guys.


He's a pretty reputable scout.

He ranks Lehner as 12th, the same way he ranks goalie prospects in other systems. I don't know why but he ranks goalies in a particular way. If you read some part of the site, he explains how and why he ranks them the way he does. If he ranked goalies the same way as D and F's, Lehner would probably be 1 or 2.

But he's actually a good source for stuff. Very popular on Twitter, too.

Bottom line is that we have a top 3 prospect system in the entire league. You know your wicked deep when you have Stefan Neosen at 7, and Matt Puempel at 9. If these guys pan out the Sens are going to be stupid stacked up front. We'll have top 6 guys forced to play on the third line because of it lol

Just hopin a CBA gets done cuz if not I'm gonna start flippin $&#%


Ah ok, that makes a lot more sense. There are a lot of scouts and managers who don't attach any value to goalie prospects given their success history and in that light I can understand what he's done with Lehner. Though I don't necessarily agree with the rest either, but it will be interesting to see how that site grows. I was only familiar with the baseball side of it previously.

Completely agree about Noesen and Puempel, and we may know as soon as 2013!
Quote
 
 
0 #62 simple jack 2012-08-27 17:45
As far as bobby ryan goes i can see vancouver trading louongo since anaheim can use another top flight goalie until hiller has a couple symptom free seasons.

Louongo,would help Anaheim reach the playoffs even without ryan.

I can see a trade being made as soon as the new cba is done.
Quote
 
 
0 #63 Candancetnj 2013-01-31 23:12
クリスチャンルブタン 激安通販

アグ店舗

UGG ブーツ
Quote
 
 
0 #64 Candancetnj 2013-01-31 23:12
クリスチャンルブタン 激安通販

アグ店舗

UGG ブーツ
Quote
 
 
0 #65 Gustaveotb 2013-01-31 23:13
グッチ新作

グッチ バッグ

ティンバーランド店舗
Quote
 
 
0 #66 Gustaveotb 2013-01-31 23:13
グッチ新作

グッチ バッグ

ティンバーランド店舗
Quote
 

Add comment


Security code
Refresh

SensChirp COTW- Finding Positives in a Lockout

SensChirp Articles