The two sides are expected to meet again Monday.
While both Bettman and the NHLPA continue to emphasize that starting the season on time is a priority, I can’t help but see that as complete and utter BS. If avoiding a lockout was their number one concern, these conversations would have started a long time ago.
Make no mistake about it- this is two groups looking out for their own interests. Sad part is it’s the fans- you know, the people that supply the money they are fighting over- that get left in the middle.
Not to mention that thousands of people that are going to be left without jobs in the event of a lockout.
Going to be a frustrating process for fans of the National Hockey League.
- Seems silly to be updating on potential deals during the middle of labour unrest but a quick word on Bobby Ryan. Indication I’m getting is that the price is still far too high for the Sens liking and they are more than willing to step aside and let another team overpay. As much as Bryan Murray would like to improve his roster, it’s nice to know it’s not going to be done “at all costs”. The Senators are in a position where they can be patient.
- With a potential lockout looming, players are already beginning to make plans to play elsewhere if a new CBA can not be reached. Rick Nash and Joe Thornton will head to Switzerland, Teemu Selanne could head to Finland and a number of stars will consider the KHL as an option. Meanwhile, you can't help but wonder what a lengthy stoppage would mean for Daniel Alfredsson, who recently announced he would come back for one more season. I can tell you I am making plans for my transition to BSensChirp.
In most games of chicken, however, there are only two combatants, but in this case the fans are stuck in the middle, and neither side cares
No question that the league would lose credibility from fans and other leagues in the world.
Here's a look at how the salary cap and salary floor would be impacted by the current CBA along with proposals from the NHL and NHL Players' Association for the 2012-13 season (assuming a fixed $16-million gap is kept in place):
Current system@
Salary cap: $70.2 million
Salary floor: $54.2 million
NHL's proposal@
Salary cap: $55.3 million
Salary floor: $39.3 million
NHLPA's proposal@
Salary cap: $69 million
Salary floor: $53 million
"Please remember one thing and that is the fans. Your business is gate driven and nothing else. You could not give away a T.V. contract down in the States & yet you want to compare yourselves to MLB? MLB has multi-billion dollar T.V. contracts with some teams getting in the neighbourhood of a 100 million a year on their own. MLB does have a luxury tax if a team goes over $178 Million this year & lots of teams do it because the owners and the league can afford it, the NHL can't.
If the NHL wants to compare itself to a professional sport look no further than the NFL. Here is a league that just about every year the teams are competitive & the races somewhat tight. The NFL has revenue sharing & salary caps, you even get some players who will take a cut to get better players on the team, you won't hear of that in the NHL. Oh & by the way the NFL TV contract $3 Billion a season. This year the NFL cap was $120 Million for a 53 man roster, the NHL was $63 Million for a 23 man roster. That works out to an average of 2.2 million for NFL player and 2.7 for NHL player. NHLPA don't forget your pay cheques are guaranteed.
So let's put this in perspective, you want to compare yourselves to other professional sports in North America; you have a much smaller T.V. contract, you have a mainly gate driven bottom line, you have much smaller arenas, you have higher average guaranteed salaries and still you want a better deal.
NHLPA keep in mind that for many families you are looking at almost the cost of a months groceries to go to one game, and yet you want more. I think it is high time you smarten up and realize who really pays the bills, we fans that's who. Get a deal done and play hockey or lose a bunch of us for a long, long time.
Sincerely,
The long suffering NHL Fans.
@boom,
There is no doubt in my mind, that the NHL's Proposal is the way to go !
NHL players have to come down to earth, and realize that we as fans enjoy the product, but there comes a day where these players are truly greedy and overpaid !
Similarly, a few owners are creating the hike in salaries !!
We ( fans ) want both parties to negotiate now, and settle this in next 3 weeks at the most !!
You can bet that if there is a lockout they'll be televising any hockey they can find. Given the close relationship between the Sens and 67s and the fact that the 67s are playing at SBP for the next two seasons, I think it's safe to saw a lot of 67s games will be on TV either way.
The same people who blame the owners for handing out ridiculous contracts or blame players for making millions just to "play a game" are the same people who happily fork over hundreds of dollars for tickets.
Fans have no "rights" in this situation. And really have very little power since we all know most will come running back no matter what.
I'm not saying fans shouldn't be upset or even saying they have no right to vent or complain etc, but the fans that seem to think "we pay for tickets so we're in charge here" are just asinine.
Hell of a comment. Would love to hear the rebuttal from a player or agent.
Obviously we have no say in the negotiations but to it's not ridiculous to feel like our voice should be heard.
He was one of the most fun guys to watch on the 67s last season. Would love to see him join Ceci and Prince on the Sens at some point.
The problem, from the owners perspective, is that the Total Revenue figures are "skewed", somewhat, by the large market teams and the numbers don't accurately reflect the overall "health" of the league.
How about they figure out the "revenue" by discounting the top 5 and bottom 5 teams (in terms of revenue) in figuring out the "average" team revenues?
Let them negotiate what the floor and ceiling should be (somewhere in the middle of what they each proposed) and base the year-to-year increase/decrea se based on the resulting number from the calcualtion above.
Just a thought...
But that's the thing. Just like no player is going to turn down $10M per year if he can get it and no owner is going to refuse to offer it if he feels it will help his team, fans in general will pay whatever the price is for tickets or merch etc.
Sure there are limits for some fans and some fans who are borderline will "stay away" if there's another lockout but there's never been significant long-term damage done to any sport based on fans getting upset over a work stoppage. Not in baseball, not when scabs played football and not in the NHL.
I'm not saying there's no room for fans to have their say and the NHL and NHLPA would each like to find themselves on "the fan's side" in this, but ultimately it's a business and no matter when things settle and no matter what the end result is, there will be enough fans to keep things going.
Again, not saying fans shouldn't vent or debate the issues at all. I just think it's silly for fans to think that they can actually impact the negotiations or that some open letter is going to make a difference.
If the NHL wants to compare itself to a professional sport look no further than the NFL. Here is a league that just about every year the teams are competitive & the races somewhat tight. The NFL has revenue sharing & salary caps, you even get some players who will take a cut to get better players on the team, you won't hear of that in the NHL. Oh & by the way the NFL TV contract $3 Billion a season. This year the NFL cap was $120 Million for a 53 man roster, the NHL was $63 Million for a 23 man roster. That works out to an average of 2.2 million for NFL player and 2.7 for NHL player. NHLPA don't forget your pay cheques are guaranteed.
So let's put this in perspective, you want to compare yourselves to other professional sports in North America; you have a much smaller T.V. contract, you have a mainly gate driven bottom line, you have much smaller arenas, you have higher average guaranteed salaries and still you want a better deal.
Sincerely,
The long suffering NHL Fans.
Hell of a comment. Would love to hear the rebuttal from a player or agent.
@ Sandy ,
Our girl Sandy, should crash the next meeting in Toronto between Bettman and Fehr, and present this to both paties
to show how quickly she would resolve this impasse !!
Brilliant comment !!!!!!!!!!!!
Too bad you couldn't get every hockey fan in every NHL city to protest that day.
It may not do anything to help the negotiations.. but it will serve notice that we have had enough...
I also plan to take in many 67's games this season, if there is no NHL.
The Hockey News put the Sens in 8th spot in their NHL 2012-2013 predictions...surprising
www.thehockeynews.com
Our girl Sandy, should crash the next meeting in Toronto between Bettman and Fehr, and present this to both paties
to show how quickly she would resolve this impasse !!
Brilliant comment !!!!!!!!!!!!
===============================
That wasn't MY comment. It was from someone else. I just found it in the Ottawa Sun...
I love you!
Wouldnt it be awesome IF the fans went on strike, haha. Imagine the chaos it would cause to the NHL and the NHLPA.
To truly be heard it would take a League wide fan lockout...
If nothing else it would provide fans a chance to vent and feel united, but really it wouldn't impact anything. If logic and "fair play" were a part of these negotiations they would be over already. The CBA and all similar agreements in sports are about one thing: money. Each side is looking to get more milk from the cash cow that is the average fan. And before you say we should all stop buying tickets you need to realize that will never happen.
Would brighten my day if Toronto picked him up!
THe NHLPA at least tried to come with suggestions about how the owners can fix their problems without laying it all on the players shoulders.
This "greedy hockey player" argument is just thrown out there these days as if it's always the player's fault. I can't stand behind that. It's a business that the owners and commissioner are not running properly to ensure the health of all organizations in the league. The players did not create sunbelt teams, or NHL owned teams that keep bleeding money for years because they don't want to relocate them.
Until the owners can step back and stop being greedy assholes this thing is going to get ugly.
Typcial, Kovalev is so disinterested, he apparently isn't even aware there will be no NHL to come back to. :)
Have to agree here. The owners got what they did last time based on things being so broken but have since just found new ways to mess things up within the new system. Unfortunately, that means the players won't be willing to take a hit this time around while owners probably expect them to.
Sadly, the NHL is the step-child of the "big 4" so I don't see anything like congress assigning an arbiter to force a settlement. So it's going to be up to the NHL and NHLPA to actually work in good faith - yikes.
Maybe that's his entire motivation. He figures there will be a lockout anyway so why not sign and get a signing bonus for nothing.
Hax, baseball had to secretly allow a whole steroid era to get back to health after the last work stoppage. They had serious issues recovering from that one. Yes they are great now, but it's because of the settlement that was worked out that kept them afloat until fans actually started coming back or new fans started going to games.
I'm a diehard hockey fan, but if there's more than a week or two of regular season lockout, I will not pay for a single game for at least a year or two. I'm not the only one either.
Agreed, if this goes to a lockout it could get very long and ugly again. Just last week I was sure the owners weren't dumb enough to allow another lockout. Now I'm sorry I underestimated their stupidity.
I think both sides are crapping on the fans and if they are attempting to garner public support from us, the fans, they are failing miserably.
I am not a union or association person so perhaps my comments are out of line but like a lot of you I am very pissed at both the owners and the PA presently.
Monahan was one of the better players on the ice for Canada and agree he has a bright future if he keeps it up.
I'm not saying there's no impact, but really the existence of MLB was never in doubt. And fan backlash is not really something that impacts negotiations at all.
I admire your comment about not paying for games, but I bet 90% of fans who say that and mean it would end up relenting and going to games anyway. Not saying there aren't some who would stay away - even hardcore fans, but the number of fans that stay away wouldn't be significant.
Fans can stop saying all this BS. Clearly were the ones who are suffering but as Hax pointed out it doesn't change the fact that no matter what, the fans will come back after a strike. So stop acting like you won't.
I personally I'm siding with the players at this point. As Fehr pointed out the NHL insisted on this model 7 years ago, and look where it got them. The rich teams got richer and poor teams suffer even more (not in terms of having a competitive roster but economically speaking).
The NHL can't expect the players to just take another massive pay cut and end up in the same situation they're in again. Clearly a pay cut doesn't matter at all since the league revenues will still go up because of the rich teams making a ton of money and therefore the cap has to go up. So the NHL wants the cap to be set at 55milliion now but it'll be right back to 70+ in a few years and once again the poor teams will be suffering.
The PA is trying to come up with a way to help the poor teams by using a bit of the players money as well as a bit of the rich teams money to help the poor teams out. The NHL says this is bogus, only the players should be giving money back. I'm sorry but that will not fly... ever.
I really think that this time with the PA having a good leader in place, will not accept any ridiculous 24% pay cuts. So it will have to be the NHL who agrees to change their ways this time.
It doesn't look good
Oh and chirp, I like your idea of switching things up to BSensChiro for the year if a lockout goes down
You are definitely correct, most who say that won't follow through on it and that is exactly why the fans have no say in this. We aren't unified, we can't even agree who's to blame each time, and most won't stay a way from the game that runs through their veins. What we really need is an alternative elite hockey league in North America that's run 50/50 by the owners and players as a group working together. Then the NHL would have to get their shit in order. But there is no real threat to their territory, just as you said waiting out us stubborn fans to return.
Very well said
No you won't be boycotting the NHL. You won't have a choice...there wiont be an NHL. So you will be forced to watch the 67's.
Stop throwing out this lame BS
I think he means that even when the NHL resumes he'll only go to 67s games.
Yes with the last lockout he was able to implement more parity in the league however he changed nothing when it comes to the parity if the economic situation of the league.
If the system stays relatively the same the rich teams will keep getting richer and the poor teams will keep struggling.
Either accept to switch things up or move all the poor teams to bigger markets
If that's the case, I think we all know that's coming out of his ass.
If you're a real hockey fan you will no matter what watch NHL games when they're on tv and also fork up the big cash to buy tickets
I'm am on the side of the players this time as I think all the issues are the fault of the owners BUT if you look at the numbers from TSN.. it shows that the players have lowered the cap about 1M both top end and bottom end. Now how in the hell is that 'giving up a lot to fix this'. It doesn't.
And how can Fehr stand there and blab about MLB -- when both sports -- especially in revenue -- are so far apart.
It's ridiculous.
The further this goes.. the fans will not support either side...
Two lockouts in about 8 years is just plain stupid.. when you look at the $$ generated and shared.
When the Corporate Sponsors start leaving.. that's when the League will take notice. That is their gravy...
Fehr reported that he told his players to prepare for 2 yrs out... That is ridiculous.
This isn't MLB.. the NHL won't survive a 2 yr lockout. It will be finished.
Important to remember that Bettman is speaking on behalf of the 30 owners. Takes a lot of the heat from fans but he is only representing what league owners are telling him.
But ya, he seems like a bit of a dork.
I didn't have access to the math but that is exactly what I was saying in the last thread. Floor = 40M. Cap = 60M. 8 year CBA. That should allow all teams to make some profit, while of course the huge teams like TML and NYR will make droves of money. I love this idea, and they can squabble about UFA and contract length all they want.
I said it before, revenue sharing with players does not work when there is such a huge disparity in revenue from franchise to franchise. The big assed money makers very quickly push up the floor + ceiling very quickly to the point where smaller teams can no longer afford the floor. This system could only work if every franchise shared equally in league profits and Fehr damned well knows it.
That system is broken. Lock in money and term and players should suck it up.
If a player has 3 years left on a contract and there is an entire year lock out, does he still have 3 years left when they resume playing?
Just because you would crawl back like a whipped puppy doesnt mean ALL fans would, I really do think that if a lockout occurs that the NHL will be losing a vast majority of the old and somewhat current fanbase.
Its what we actually need to do, me personally, I could and would not return to a game if that idea gained momentum, I would be ok boycotting the NHL while watching the NFL, no problems there.
Eventually I would miss hockey, I think but I would hope that a 1 year fan lockout would send the message clear enough.
Yes, the contracts NORMALLY just get pushed out a year, unless there is some concession in the new CBA saying that is not the case. Normally this is negotiated as part of the CBA.
the nhl should force owners to:
have a common ticket price thats affordable to build the fanbase and not rely on corporate sponsors to buy seats...
most corporate seat holders are not fans and give tickets away to other people who still may not be fans and don't cheer or act like hockey fans and creates a silent environment sometimes heard in the 100 level of scotia bank place.
let the corporate sponsors buy up the boxes not the seats.
home town fans are there to root on the home team not the visiting team, raising ticket prices for certain teams stops home fans from going.
every ticket should be affordable including season tickets.
for those who buy the center ice package should not have commercials, if we are paying for the feed why are we watch the sponsors who help provide a free service? keep the camera's rolling...
Nhl center ice packages should be sold by the team creating team revenues even if the buyer is out of the local area and it should include tv rights to the affiliate teams
let nhl teams make money from their fans, i want to support ottawa, not every other team.
make it possible for a team to get regulated down if they finish in the bottom 2 for multiple years.
make nhl teams earn their place in the league.
The nhl needs to give back to the fans and stop taking advantage of us.
Tookie, I'm completely on board with you. The fans need to unite and start holding the NHL hostage. The NHL has no revenue to share if they don't have any income, so if all fans even just refused to see the games live it would be a huge detriment to the league. If you still need your fix watch the games already shown in your current tv package and that's it. If fans united and said for every month the NHL is locked out we will boycott the arenas for 1 year, both sides would come to an agreement a lot faster, imo.
Met him at the ALL Star Draft last year and I have to say he is a nice guy in person...actual ly stayed 10-15 minutes chatting with me and some buddies decked out in hockey jersey's. I mean he could of just said hi and hightailed it out of there...
He is really short tho, I would guess 5'6, 5'7 and seemed extremely frail/brittle. Stress getting to him I think?
Yeap, ripped that off quick without thinking. If there is a lockout, I will just go to 67's games.
I think you have to discount anyone on the boards that pay attention to an NHL fan site in the middle of August. I would classify all of us as fanatics and not mere fans.
Honestly, since Fehr killed the 1994 baseball season, I have been to TWO games...One at the end of the Expos and once while I happened to be in Washington when the Nationals were playing at home. In almost 20 years, I have yet to watch more than 6 innings of baseball on TV.
When Fehr was announced as the NHLPA attack dog, I was concerned. When the NHL announced their proposal, I saw a lockout looming. Now that we see the spread between the two, I will be very (pleasantly) surprised if we have NHL hockey this year.
Fear the Fehr.
Um, you do realize that the money they make from selling ads offsets the cost to you right? If they can't sell ads they'd charge you more.
Same goes for the teams - they need to make a certain amount per game so forcing them to lower ticket prices is basically forcing them to bankrupt and leave town.
Good plan though.
Pre-season tix for the SBP games have gone on sale, so i would check the local arena for the ticket info, since it is not on the SBP website.
I really like many of your other points, but this one is just atrocious. This isn't soccer in Europe we are talking about with some many league levels and fans mostly supporting the region, this would kill NHL clubs.
While you are going outside the box with ideas though, one I will add to make playoffs draws even more dramatic. Seed each conference 1 through 8 however allow the first place team in the conference to be able to choose *any* of the other teams for a first round opponent. Then the highest remaining team does the same until all the match-ups are set. The suspense of who is picking who would be very exciting (announcement day would be as big as trade deadline day) and many factors from rivalries to the tough 4th spot opponent etc would make this all very interesting.
I am a hockey fan, but think it is bullshit that it has to come to this. The fans are the only reason they exist, the owners and players need to get off their high horses and get a deal done.
who's got the list of the preseason games and where they would be held? is there still a young prospect tourney?
Not to be a prick, but what other choice do you have lol?
If a player is sign at 5 mil and the cap is 50 mil the player is making 10%of the cap for the team
If the cap goes up to 55 mil, the players salary and cap hit also rises proportionately to 5.5 mil.... 10 % of the cap.
With this system there should never be another labor dispute. Ever
The only negotiations would be what percent goes to players and what percent goes to owners.
Luxury tax, contract length and free agency are all sideshows to the real issue
It seems to me the players really over complicated things with their proposal and they should have known such a drastic change would result in a resounding NO from the nhl
This plan also keeps the idea of parity alive
We've all seen teams be able to afford an extra top level player each year based solely on the cap rising and current salries remaining unchanged
With the cap hits changing with the cap, teams like LA would not be able to keep bringing in star player after star player, while essentially mismanaging their teams spending. And teams like the Ottawa Senators would not have to worry about reaching the cap floor, even though they are icing a more expensive team than the year before
Thanks! I found some info and it looks like they went on sale a few months ago. whoops. Looks like there's still plenty available though.
Haha good point. Fuck are you guys all lawyers ?
Ok here goes. If there is a lockout and they do go back after missing part of the season, I will not purchase NHL tickets, I normally go to 12 games a year on average. I will spend my money on 67's tickets instead.
http://senators.nhl.com/club/schedule.htm
Idk about the young prospect tourney, they did have the 5v5 scrimmage a few months ago.
the one i'm talking about is usually a few weeks before pre season, i think its ottawa vs toronto vs chicago vs pitts?
groups of 4 or 5 teams... not sure what it was called but they did play in ohl arenas like the john labatt center in london ontario.
They cancelled that tourney a long time ago...
Instead of raising the salary cap/floor whenever the league revenues go up, why not just increase it every year by the same national inflation rate (so currently around 2%).
I would say keep the salary cap the same year after year but that wouldn't make sense as inflation has a big play in the value of the $.
The current structure works basically in a way that even if many teams loose money but a few teams make so much money that it cancels out the other teams losses...the league wide revenues are technically rising and therefore the cap goes up. That is just not right and basically slowly but surely bankrupts the small market teams
Not saying that I will never comeback to NHL hockey as hockey has always been my preferred sport to play and watch, but if there was no NHL for 2 years.... I'm sure I, and many others will by that point, will have found something better to do with their time and spend their hard earned money on.
I hope they get their i's dotted and there t's crossed with something sensible in the next few weeks and make it feasable to not have this nightmare recurring every few years. Fans are getting sick of it.
They cancelled that tourney a long time ago...
Yeah they used to do that at Guertin, then it moved to London, Kingston and now its nowhere...
if there is a lockout nhl players should not be allowed to play elsewhere. when they leave to play oversees or in the ahl they are directly erasing jobs from players that typically play in these leagues.
these individual havent earned the millions that nhlers have and accordingly have no nest egg to fall back on.
nhlpa should be no different than any other union on the planet, you strike or get locked out , you dont work unless you officially leave organization.
x 2....If we miss anytime, like we do not have an 82 game regular season I will not pay a cent to go to a game, or buy any merchandise.
I will spend my money going to an NFL game or two.
Pretty bang, on...I can't remember watching more than a pitch in baseball since the lockout, and I haven't been to a single game, and actually gave away my share of my grandfathers season tickets to the Jays.
So - we create a SC league while the lockout is on. Then, when they are back, we cheer them on!!
Or, plan B. We have a staff at Bettman's hotel slip some Estrogen pills into his morning coffee, make him all nice and emotional, deliver him some real heavy letters and e-mails from fans and then send him into the meeting.
GO SENS GO!
The only way to fix that is to have revenue sharing. The NHL doesn't need to negotiate that with the NHLPA. Those are negotiations that need to happen between owners. Good luck with that one. Here's why you won't see it. Owners of big market teams make alot of money. They also paid alot of money for their franchises because they are moneymakers. Having to fork over a good chunk of their profit would depreciate the net worth of their franchise and make their owners/sharehol ders very unhappy. It's easy for us fans to say who cares about millionaires but truth is, hockey is a business and owners have a right to make money on their investment.
As to how to solve the problem, I don't have the answer. I think if they can fix that component, a deal with the players will be easier to reach.
No, and no.
Exactly.. these NHL players have no problem going to another league to take the jobs of other players who barely make a living at hockey... But those other leagues won't refuse them... they are more talented players...
If betman is sticking to the phoenix plan he needs there to be a season because the city of phoenix will not have a team any longer if there is a lockout, the city will back out from supporting the team. No potential owner would buy the team with the risk of a lockout looming.
the NHL got their way last time, this will just be added butter getting anything above the last deal, the NHL will wait until the last moment before giving the players a last minute deal and making the season a go.
last time this happened the nhl lost lots of tv revenue and lost some big deals because of it, they will not mess that up again without having an alternate plan via internet etc.
NHL fans will go crazy on social media leaving everybody exposed to criticism
last but not least the pre paid jets fans will go crazy and take down betman like a military target. betman would be a marked man, even more than now. Not sure how that guy isn't surrounded in some kind of security personal.
Nail on the head here (well on the first point). I think Phoenix is our saving grace and Bettman will not let that fail.
Here's hoping anyway!
Get out our contact in Bingo - we're all thinking the same thing....
BINGO BUS!!!!!!
Worlds in December.We(fan s)will survive.We'll see how many
small market teams and owners do.
the players get their .... together, but in the
meantime, i'll do what i have to do.
If anyone can shed some light, is a CBA like a contract in which if there is an agreement, it can be for an X amount of years, then when the years expire and a CBA has to be renewed, it'll be again for a number of years before another one is settled? Can they just go with a CBA that will last let's say, a decade without any changes before another one is done?
Yeah the last CBA just ran out. The idea of this one being 10 years is unlikely since neither side is likely to like the terms well enough to commit to it that long - but we can hope.
Bang on Tooks.
I met him as well, fantastic guy and very personable. Shook our hands, traded jokes the whole shebang. I'm clearly on the owners' side in this one. You can replace players but you can't (easily) replace a Eugene Melnyk for example.
As of today the owners and players have less than a month before training camp to get their spit together. They are having one meeting a week, disagree then have a meeting the week after. It's looking like a lockout is on the way, how long is the ultima pregunta...
in the event that nhl players play elsewhere during a lockout they really should be kicked out of the union.
the owners take huge financial risks to bring hockey to us and it makes sense that they recieve the lions share of the reward when they are successful.
pretty hard to feel sorry for millionairs being paid to play a game that i conversely pay to play...
While I fully agree that I can't side with the owners on this one, I also dont agree that 1 or two stupid contracts dictates the overall health of the cap system. There are hundreds of other reasonable and low ball contracts out there which make up 99% of the economical system. Kovalchuks contract did not affect the CAP, revenues or ticket prices... give some credit to the rest of the players and their reasonable contracts.
However, I do believe that the new CBA needs to address "abusing" the system.
Quoting Sensnation:
Agree, however, you would have to be a complete fool to fall for the proposed NHLPA system. Its like a used car salesman saying "we will give you three great years of low payments", and then in the fine print you pay double for the following 6 years. It call comes down to the 57% of all revenues they wanted after the lean years which is way too high.
Both the NHL and the owners want sunbelt teams, it increases tv deals, exposure, and grows the game. The evidence is starting to show with considerably higher hockey enrollments in southern states. I dont care if I bleed money for 20 years if it gets me a stronger NHL for the following 40 years. Any investor worth a dime will tell you to invest long term (40+ years). But thats another discussion entirely.
Quoting Sensnation:
Yes, the NHL offer was RIDICULOUSLY low, even more rediculous than the 57% the players asked for. Its all posturing at this point. We have now seen both extremes. I think they can get something done by season opener.
#OccupyNHL
THIS is something that a welcher would say
Hey Kovalev Late august is way too fucking late to start training in the NHL you lazy bastard!
But this time Alfie has school aged children.. like a lot of the players do. Would they put them in different schools for part of a year.. and screw with that?
It's the Owners fault this time. They got what they wanted last CBA and Bettman could not control those Owners/GMs that spend stupid and drive up the price for everyone else... No way I support the Owners this time.. and I'm beginning to not support the players either. I don't like the idea of the arrogance of some of them going to Europe and take jobs from the players there who make a hell of a lot less than they do.
I don't support either side anymore. I will not give up my season tickets.. I love my Sens and I enjoy going to the games. But that doesn't mean I can't be pissed off.
the nfl has a lower average salary per player than the nhl despite an astronomically higher revenue stream from tv etc.
ask yourself this question, when is the last time you got a raise? were in the midst of a world wide recession and have been for quite some time. despite that, average salaries in the nhl are up.
personally, i dont think player salary should be reflective of revenues but if it has to be if then they should be paid on their most recent performance similar to commissioned employees.
how much did Scott Gomez and Wayde Redden make last year?
I will still be a fan and watch hockey (Sens) when they are back but I expect revenues will die down for a bit.
I watched Basketball faithfully every Bulls game and others until Jordan retired, watched a few minutes at the olympics, but other than that have not watched a game.
Some fans may never come back (other than Hockey markets)
may move onto other things (not me but others)
I think they are playing with fire.
Amen to this. I hope the owners put the f**king boots to the players this time around, even if it takes a season off+.
The current method is simply not sustainable.
it was THEIR CBA. If it is not working, maybe the fault
lies in BOTH parties.
Welcome to 2012... Anyone with power will abuse it, play with fire and risk losing it all.... that is the modern American dream. Crash and burn in a greedy fiery blaze
Welcome to the human race. Nothing new. Snake would agree.
Anyone get the reference?
Anyone? Ferris? Anyone?
ice it was just to clean the ice on tv time outs......My bad.
I'm in the same boat, except I WILL give up my seasons tickets, and they won't have me going to games anymore. I can't in good conscience support this gong show, no matter how much I love hockey, or how passionate I am about it.
I used to be a huge baseball nut when I was younger. Giant Jays fan. Work stoppage there, and I've never watched or gone to any baseball games since. I used to coerce my parents into making the 8-hour trip to TO to go to games on the weekend. Even went to some World Series games. Completely lost interest after the stoppage.
Will the NHL miss my 10-20k a year? Probably not. Will I miss Sens hockey? More than most. I'm a bit of a crazy fan of hockey, and especially the Sens. But the only thing I can do to voice my displeasure is stop supporting, and that's what I will do. If that means the Sens aren't viable in Ottawa, that is a sad day, but if the Sens are packing it up, that probably means 12 others teams have already folded.
The owners and players need to both make concessions and get a deal done, but both have left too little time, as a posturing play to increase pressure for their proposal. Fans lose in the end, businesses that rely on event revenue lose...pretty much everyone but the owners and players lose.
Pretty bang on...I won't stop being a fan/supporting the team, from afar, as in my living room.
I likely will come around again at some point and be willing to pay money for it again, like maybe after this agreement expires and see how it is handled that time....if they learn from their past mistakes(which there is no reason to believe that they will) then I will start going to games again.
Such stupid stubborness, from both Bettman and Goodenow,
during the discussions that ended with cancelling the whole season.
I somehow acquired the e-maill address of both Bettman and Goodenow , and I was constanly writing to both parties.
The only response I got was a letter from NHL Headquarters in New York.
It was written by Colin Campbell who was then Vice-President under Gary Bettman. It was not too promising
and I thanked him for taking the time to respond !
Both the NHL and NHLPA, have so much to lose, it's really a
no-brainer, that they compromise and avoid any stoppage, in playing the 2012-2013 season !!
If they do not play, they will lose many fans forever !
Let's get it done before September 15th !!!!!!!!
Want to chime in to support my man Rush.
Why should the NHL be different than the NFL or any other normal business?
Here is what I will pay you,
Employee then has the option to accept or not. And if you do not perfrom, then you can be fired, an then hire one more capable
In a roundabout way the owners are really protecting the fans, if he NHLPA gets all they want, the the average fan will never be able to afford aonther game. Hell $200 per game now is getting hard for many fans!
To summarize owners take risks, players play for the owners, X amount is what we (the owners) will pay, you dont want it somebody else will take it.
Fans will/should not be asked to shell out anymore!
The biggest slap in the face to the NHL, and the fans (who pay these players) is to go play elsewhere, and earn a salary, when your brotheran 3rd and 4th lineers, and you fans, are left sitting and waiting
Shame on Nash, who are scabs crossing the picket line.
Final question will Nash be paid 8 mil to play in Europe?
If not the why not play in the NHL for that same amount?
Sure they can get very high - but the stands will still be full. Teams get nothing for an empty seat (unless it's bought and empty of course). It's in their best interest to fill the stands but at the highest possible price.
I'm not saying the players are victims here, but they came more than half way last time and nothing was solved. The owners "own" the game - so they're the ones that should be looking to set up a solid business plan that will work and that won't immediately get their membership looking for ways to get around the new rules.
Ottawa and other small market teams however would be impacted directly by a lockout as they would lose fan base and most likely some of their corporate sponsors as well.
Large market owners won't feel the sting. Unfortunately, as with any business, it is the moneymakers that have the majority of the say. Therefore, I would not be surprised if 5-7 of the owners had 95% of the say. Not that Bettman would make this public but this is generally the way it works in a capitalist world.
While both players and owners are to blame, I must admit that I put the majority of the blame on the owners. How many of us would turn down a salary increase at work if it was offered? How many of us would say "No thanks, for the good of the company I cannot take this salary increase." Especially if you knew that by turning down the increase that that money would simply go to another employee. The owners are the ones providing these ridiculous contracts with ridiculous terms. Philadelphia puts an offer sheet on Weber that they know will have a profound impact on future revenue in Nashville because one team can afford it and the other can't and the owners have the gall to say it is the players fault? Take a look in the mirror owners, you may be surprised to find your biggest rivals looking back at you.
Hax, I can tell you that I am very near my threshhold.
Family of 4 will cost me clost to $300 per game.
I can only do that so many times.
I am very fortunate that between our work corporate box, and family giveaways I can make many games. But on my own dime, I could only afford so many games. If that goes up, my number of games will go down.
And this is primarily due to salaries. How many millions per year is enought?
I cannot believe that I would be the only one
This is a tug of war between Millionaires vs Billionaires.
Owners may be using the strategy, but in the end Billions outways Millions, therefore is only a matter of time but the owners will win, the question is how much are the playres prepared to lose?
Nash and Thorton are already abonding ship, faster than an Italian Sea Captain
Well there is a contact us -- where you can directly communicate with the NHLPA.. So I guess we start a compaign...
Good luck with that !!
I tried e-mailing a few times, and they never ever responded.
That was a few years ago during the last lockout !
Waste of ur time !!
-curling
-dart
-bowling
-pool
-etc
Hand full of greats t.v sports!!!! We're gonna be fine!
Cough if no one got my sarcasm well yeah... Cough cough!!!