It is an issue that has been discussed at length among Sens fans and that is what does the club do with Filip Kuba and Sergei Gonchar. Kuba is a UFA at season’s end while Gonchar has another year left on his deal at $5.5 mil. I can tell you that right now anyway, it appears as though the Sens will hang on to both.
The reason for doing so should be fairly obvious especially with the team holding down a playoff spot and looking like a team that could make some noise if they get hot come playoff time.
Now I'm not saying Bryan Murray won’t listen to offers on the two. For Kuba, some contacts I have spoken with have speculated that the bar could be set high as a first round pick. I would be surprised if a team was willing to pay that price. Kuba is too important to the Sens blueline and even though it means he could walk this off season, the Senators need him this year.
Murray was on Hockey Central at Noon and strongly hinted that Kuba won’t be going anywhere. Smart move in my opinion.
Gonchar on the other hand would be much tougher to move considering he still has another year left on his deal. Gonchar has made it clear he would like to stay here in Ottawa and unless someone blows Murray away with an offer, I expect him to be a Senator beyond the deadline.
For what it’s worth, I have been told that the Chicago Blackhawks have kicked tires on both Kuba and Gonchar.
Murray also addressed the Rick Nash situation and said that the Senators will not be involved because the asking price is far too high. He was asked about a back up goalie and said Alex Auld is their guy.
It’s an awful thing for a rumour site to say but with one week to go until the NHL Trade Deadline, I don’t think the Ottawa Senators are going to a damn thing, and as a fan, that’s just fine with me.
If someone offers a high first for Kuba and Murray believes he can deal a second or third away to replace him then he'll do it - but that's not likely.
For that that want to trade Kuba - just pretend we did (for a 2nd), then we turned around and used that second to acquire another D (who will wear #17 coincidentaly) that will help solidify the blue line for the rest of the season and playoffs.
Auld is better than he has been this season, but even so I think Murray will look around over the summer for a backup to sign to a 2-3 year deal. That guy can backup Anderson in the regular season, be a scratch in the playoffs with Lehner as backup and then potentially backup Lehner after he takes over for Anderson.
(if, if, if)
I hope he hung up on them right away, might somewhat consider it if Bobby Ryan's name is mentioned, but since I doubt that...let's move on.
Not to beat a dead horse but this is exactly what I've been saying.
Big rentals? Of course not.
A trade or even a big trade that fits into the future vision of the organization long term? Hell yeah!
He probably wont find one, we're lucky enough he landed us Turris already in a "hockey trade" but I'm glad to hear he is keeping his ears and phone lines open just in case.
Murray also clearly stated that while he'd expect Kuba to stay put and that he's been one of our stronger more consistent players this season, that of course he would move Kuba if the price was right. "Overpayment" was the term used.
If I was trading with Chicago and were looking for a D in return, I'd be after Nick Leddy. Yuung guy, fits our mold and has a load of talent which we will really start to see in about 2 more years. Keep watch on that kid.
In exchange for Kyle Quincey
In exchange for Kyle
@mckenzie I am now hearing TB has traded Kyle Quincey to DET. Working on details but sounds like Quincey to DET for a first-round pick. Verifying.
1st round pick for Quincey!?!?
Bit of an odd move from Det...
WOW!!
Did The Wings owe something to Yzerman!?!?!?!?
Kuba's value is at an All time high and you want to keep him Sens Chirp ? Now that's a C'mon Man !!! We can play out the season with Lee, Cowen Karlsson, Gonchar, Carkner, Phillips and be just fine. Call up Borowiecki if need be. Time to sell Big Guy.
A first from Detroit this year might as well be a 2nd :)
Still, quite the sellers market. Really makes you wonder what Gonchar could fetch...
You may be right, Tampa needs a stud goalie and they need him now. If they had a top goalie this year, they'd be sitting in a much better position, more than likely playoffs and SY knows that. Don't cross Bernier off that list of available young goalies.
I don't know about anybody else, but remember when we used to speculate as to the perfect time to trade Kuba back in the off season? Yeah, that time would be now. Not for trading him, just sayin.
Teams will give up anything for a good defencemen in this market!
He was originally drafted by Detroit.. but they got so deep on D they waived him... so he's back to where he started...
And as it's been mentioned, a Detroit 1st round, is so close to the 2nd round it's nothing to go crazy about. But Tampa is doing what they can to stockpile picks like BM did last year. SY see's that the future is now, he'll be moving more as the deadline nears. Who's next to be dealt from Tampa, wagers anyone???
Malone, Purcell, Pyatt would pick up the most in return I think
My man, a first round pick is a first round pick = a great prospect.
Just look at Stefan Neosen (drafted 21st) or Matt Puempel (24th) for us. I do understand that it's Detroit though, and they may not need the prospect.
What has shocked me about the 3-way trade though, was that the Avs traded one of their best defencemen, probably one of their best players, who also averages the most ice time, for a 3rd line winger.
Isn't this guy the same bonehead who traded Elliot for Anderson [despite Elliot's resurgence with the Blues, he was terrible with Avs]?
Glad Greg Sherman ain't my GM.
Yep.
Guy's freakin brutal.
I seriously don't get our fanbase...they are seriously so short sited it is unreal...it is all about what just happened 30 seconds ago.
Kuba will not be resigned(I seriously hope at least)....we are highly unlikely to win the cup this season so having him help us in the playoffs isn't important.(if I am wrong and we win the cup this is pointless)
Gonchar I understand has another year and a no move clause, he probably isn't going anywhere, I also get the impression h likes being here, so possibly isn't going to wave even next year
You should watch Murray's interview on TSN man he made some good points about Kuba.
I know his return would be good, but [and I hate to say this] part of the reason why we're where we are and Karlsson has 57 points is because of him.
I think they'll keep Purcell... he is a pretty good player... Maybe Yzerman is seeing the way Ottawa kept some vets to guide the young players.. he may be doing the same thing...
With this team being in a playoff hunt.. I don't think Murray wants to weaken the team by trading Kuba... He wants to give his players the best shot they have.
Now if someone comes calling for Gonchar.. (not saying anyone would) I could see him leaving.. if he waives his NTC.
Karlsson's 57 points are due to Karlsson being a great offensive d-man. He has played with Lee in quite a few shifts in the last few games and has looked just like he has paired with Kuba or anyone else. His game would be just fine without Kuba.
That being said, unless the price is a 1st or established prospect for him there is no point in trading him in order to bring in a 2nd or 3rd and then have to give up something else to bring in a rental to cover Kuba's absence. Borocop is not the answer this season as he will already be brought up likely for depth to compensate for injuries if we go anywhere in the playoffs.
I agree with you 100 percent
Much agreed.
I've been on the fence with Kuba this season. There's no question he's been good for us. The possibility of acquiring another 1st round pick coming back is certainly tempting though
What I do like is the fact that Murray isn't going to do anything. He realizes how good this team can be with the guys that we have, and he's giving them all a chance to make something out of a surprising season which they rightfully deserve.
How about a little reality check? NHL players work their entire careers to have a chance at glory in the playoffs. You want to talk long-term vision? How about not pissing off all your players by lessening their chances to make the most of this season? Standing pat says you have confidence in the group. Selling off players waves a white towel and tells everyone all their hard work doesn't count for shit. It's just not done.
There are only two ways Kuba can get moved:
1. Massive overpayment that players will accept because the return is that damn good.
2. A hockey deal. Kuba + a prospect gets dealt from Ottawa for a younger less established defender who is playing in the league right now and has a higher ceiling.
I'm real disapointed in Murrays comments unless he's doing this on purpose to maximise his value. Next thing you know he'll sign him long term and you will all be saying ...why didn't we trade him then !!
Think of Kuba as our rental.
We should move him because he's not going to be around after this year and his value is high etc etc, but then we also need to go out and get a veteran D to help us the rest of the way. So we keep Kuba as our rental.
If some GM wants to offer us a first for Kuba and Murray feels he can get a guy to replace Kuba and bring what Kuba has given us this year (which ain't nothing) and that guy only costs us a second then do it. But even then you're basically upgrading a second for a first and potentially hurting team chemistry.
If we were in 10th it's a totally different story and Murray would be singing a different tune.... and licking his chops over fleecing some GM.
Huh?
Why would Murray be looking at a UFA in his late 30s anyway?
There is zero concern of Kuba being resigned unless all these things happen:
He agrees to less money than he can get on the open market.
He signs a one-year deal with no NTC/NMC.
Murray KNOWS for sure that we only have one rookie ready for next year to break in and that all the rest of our young D needs another year in Bingo.
i.e. Kuba replaces Carkner
Basically what I said... in response to spinorama's claim we would sign him long term...haha
I just can't wrap my head around this way of thinking. Guess fans just approach the game and supporting their team in different ways.
Regardless, clear we won't find common ground in this debate. :)
Now Gonch is a bi different. I think we can avoid upsetting the chemistry too much by trading him (I am not sure how much he is mentoring 65 though). apparently a couple teams have already called about Gonchar. Chicago being one of them.
Interesting. I would assume we may need to take some salary back in a trade for gonch and of course he would need to waive so ....... I would be curious what the offer is though
Just not a three point game!
Because we're making the playoffs.
Because we are in the position we're in currently in the standings, and the team has meshed well this season, Kuba included, it's hard to get rid of him.
If we were in 10th or 11th and Kuba has played well as he has this season, Murray would do things differently and look at options for Kuba.
But the expectation wasn't to make the playoffs this season. It was to be a better, more respectable hockey team. The Sens have surpassed that expectation incredibly, and therefore the philosophy regarding Kuba has to change.
Because the circumstances have changed. Because this Sens team is holding down a playoff spot and have surprised people all year. Had he played this well and the Sens were outside looking in, then by all means.
But the fact is he is an important piece on a team that could be headed to the playoffs. Just doesn't make sense to move him anymore.
Sorry, but that isn't how pro sports work. You don't mail it in and use the "we are just happy to be here" approach. Won't fly in the locker room and it shouldn't fly in the GMs office either.
Also I have played sports my whole life at a fairly high level...it is not unheard of for players/coaches /trainers/anyon e involved with the team to suggest that facing another team team in the playoffs/or strategically placing one team against another..it happens...this is along the same lines.
Also..it does make sense ..he won't be around next season(I REALLY hope). Get a prospect/pick for him when he is hot.
The "plan" that everyone refers to was not designed for a scenario where the Sens were a playoff team in year one. Considering the season the team has had, the plan obviously shifts a little bit. Doesn't mean you sell young players for a short term fix- you just let this group play it out. See what they can do.
Come on man
Just like the Calder Cup run helped speed up the development of some of the Bingo kids, actually making the playoffs this year and playing well there (what says we can't win a round or two?) will do more for the long-term "plan" than whatever pick we can get for Kuba. Especially when that pick comes with the message "your hard work this season means nothing guys".
Trade Kuba now for a first round pick: you give up a guy with a rating in the 70s for a pick that *might* end up in the 90s in a few years.
Keep Kuba: Add 2-5 points to all the young players on our team due to added experience of a playoff push and a round (or more) in the playoffs.
That's about 60 added points total to the team instead of one player 20 points higher than Kuba.
There's no guarantees that Kuba staying means we make the playoffs (or that him being traded meaning we don't) but the odds say "don't rock the boat".
Sit back and enjoy the hockey man.
BOOOOOOOOOO
at least flyers are still losing....
Now the flyers tied it up
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
stings more that they were both tied up in the last minute too
At least the leafs only got the 1
Aside from Cleary, Bertuzzi, and Kindl, the Wing's roster is made up of primarily 3rd+ rounders. I know it's been discussed but man, that says a ton about their franchise, and believing in a solid foundational.. Add on to the fact that many of their prospects then do 3+ years in the AHL, and shit. Them giving away their first rounder is not really going to affect them because what they get is the guy they drafted years ago, who returns as a solid NHL defensemen to a team already stacked on D.. giving them lots of depth.
Looking at our own roster.. We have a ton of first round selections; Spezza, Karlsson, Milan, Foligno, Turris, Phillips, Lee, Gonchar, and Cowen, and the rest late rounders/free agents. I'm really glad BM is doing things the right way, and drafting. With Maclean (who spent years with the Wings) here as well, to provide input to BM, our future definitely looks bright.
If we could go down the same road the Wings have gone down to build a contender, for years, that'd be fine by me. You want to Fail for Nail? Go for it, but don't go in thinking that it's the only way to be successful. You still need a group of hard, determined, and passionate players that give it their all day in day out..
It might be different if the team weren't stacked with prospects who should start to contribute over the next 1-4 years. The organization is not in desperate need to get picks for this year - our scouting staff has done a great job even in later rounds picking up good prospects over the past few years (ex. Zach Smith, Mark Stone). People need to remember that we have 3 first round picks that are likely going to be claiming roster spots in the near future. Those don't include Cody Ceci when we draft him 30th overall this summer!
Yes, but you can say that for 75% of the team because they all had a poor season last year. Kuba's not going to get you much imo, I wouldn't pay more then a 3rd for him and even that's too high. I think it's of better value for us to keep Kuba, even if he signs elsewhere next season.
So, throw last year out of the mix and consider Kuba the years before that and this year. If you take that as the sample then you are talking about a solid D-Man. So a lot of the sentiment stems from Kuba having a bad year last year. This year he has been one of the better and more consistent performers on the team.
Another big factor to note: Given the success of the team this year and his role in it, you keep him. It is better for the team and better for the league wide perception of how the team runs and treats its players - respectfully. This perception is vital when it comes to pursuing free agents. Other players notice how a given teams management treats its own and it informs their opinion of the team and their potential desire to be a part of that team or not.
You sir, have said everything I was just about to type. So I don't need to explain it anymore to the peeps that continually want to move Kuba. Your last paragraph is what puts some clubs ahead of others, especially in a players mind. We often forget that NHL players are people and more and more the better players are including NTC into contracts. Those are not just for security but also to ensure they are not moved somewhere a player doesn't want to go. And why would that be a concern? Because players know what GM's and what teams have a bad reputation. If they are willing to waive it, they give a list of teams. Ottawa had a bad rep, let's erase that.
Bingo. Really need to factor in the human element involved in this decision.
to keep him for balance of this season.
We know what we have in Kuba, and he knows it will be his last season as a Senator! He will be traded in the off season, and we will get at least a 2nd round pick for him !
Bryan Murray knows what is best for both parties, and he said that he will not trade Kuba, unless some GM offers him
an overpayment that he cannot refuse !!
If the sens win the next 3 games, does a bigger trade happen, or does this plan stay put.
How about a trade like this:
Kuba and prospect for a young solid d-men.
Gonchar for frolik and Hjalmarson (chicago)
Greening Spezza Michalek
Ott Turris Alfresson
Foligno Smith Condra
Daug Jimmy O'/Kono Neil
Lots like a pretty tough line going into the playoffs
Going into playoffs trumps getting a return for our UFA
I for sure want to have Gonchar for playoffs, quite frankly he would be stupid to waive his no trade the way we are playing, he certainly adds veteran playoff experience and don't worry one bit about him giving his all in playoffs.
Kuba sure he does not fit in the rebuild but he is playing well, unless we get a stupid offer BM can't refuse why not keep him to finish this season, at season start we were willing to give him away for free so whats the problem with staying the course for playoffs, consider him a rental was a good point above.
I am however all for letting him walk season end.
Murray would trade Kuba and a prospect for a solid YOUNG d-man any day of the week. That's a hockey trade (and a great one depending on the specifics).
What Murray seems unlikely to do is dump Kuba for a pick (i.e. "selling" at the deadline) which playoff-bound teams typically don't do.
Two huge games coming up and against teams that have our number. Getting at least two points out of these is imperative and it all starts tonight against floundering Ovechkin and the Caps.
Ottawa Senators trade Filip Kuba to the St Louis Blues for a second round pick.
Murray: "We hate to lose a guy like that who's played well for us this year but the pick makes sense."
Ottawa Senators acquire Filip Kuba from St Louis for a second round pick.
Murray: "We feel acquiring this guy shores up our blueline for the playoffs. Our team has done a fantastic job this season and exceeded expectations so they deserve a little help going into the playoffs. Kuba's a pending UFA so getting him for the rest of this season doesn't hurt the rebuild."
Kuba is our rental.
Just sayin'
The big moves will come in the off season. The Sens have a full cupboard of prospects coming which means they can likely deal one or 2 if it means making this team better in the immediate future (Bobby Ryan as an example). I've said this before and I'll say it again: It is a great time to be a Sens fan these days
@ jakester,
Oops, I forgot about that completely, and I still think
that Murray will hold on to Kuba, till just before July 1,
where he will trade him for whatever he can get !
I know he is not part of the rebuild, but he can be very prominent in a playoff run !!
They are in St. Louis tonight and then play again on Friday night in Buffalo. A couple losses and an Ottawa win tonight would really set the stage for Saturday.
Don't worry Johne - there is a 0.0001% chance Kuba resigns and that would only be if Murray feels that none of the Bingo D are ready to break in next year (which is doubtful). Even then, it would be better to resign Carkner or pick up some other short-term d-man.
Been awhile since games actually meant something for the Sens. Could the good old days be coming back to town?!?
this will make the ball rolling for trades in the EAST if true.
Murray won't be trading Kuba - no team is going to offer anything simply for Kuba's negotiating rights for a few days.
This doesn't seem right. Perhaps just for Carter? Can't imagine Johansen being a part of that deal. The NHL's silly season in full swing!
The Leafs are totally out of their mind, in even considering a deal like that one.
Burke must be feeling the panic button pushing again !!
If Schenn does go it will be amusing to see all the leafs fans desperately trying yo convince people that Schenn was never any good, three years after desperately trying to convince people he was going to be their no1 shutdown blueliner for the next 10 years.
I disagree, this would be a fine deal for Toronto with their depth on NHL ready D. I hope it doesnt happen
If this is true, its a great trade for the Leafs.
And if the Playoffs started today we would be playing the Bruins, which we are 0-3 this year...
http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?season=20112012&type=PLA
What??? If Columbus offered this as a deal, the Leafs would be crazy not to jump all over it. Grabo is a UFA at year's end and Schenn is average. You get a first line center to play with Kessel AND a top notch prospect in return... I seriously doubt Columbus would make this deal
Have to remember Grabovski is a UFA at the end of the season. No way this is enough to land Carter and Johansen.
Are you kidding? That would be a great trade for Toronto. Chirp is right - can't see Johansen being included.
The Leafs?
No Columbus would be out to lunch to do that deal... Burke would and should make that deal any day any time...
100% agree. this is likely a false twitter rumour. please, please please be fake.
twitter
The wiz from team 1200, retweet
hmm, yeah I see that. Well, Gord Stellick isnt saying anything himself publicly at this point, on twitter anyway. Holding out hope there is nothing to this.
thanks for sharing that gauts26!
Between that and the rest of the interview, I really think we will see a move or two. Murray definitely is looking for a cheap 4th or 5th D, and still wants that winger.
I would rather Kuba resign. It is of my opinion that our d-men in Bingo are not ready for the NHL, judged by the sheer amount of goals against.
Keep Kuba for another year, and focus on shut down d-men during this draft, when Kuba and Gonchar's contracts expire they will be ready to step in.
That or we let Kuba walk and make a move for Suter.
If Murray expects to keep him for a playoff run and we exceed our playoff expectations, and Kuba is a big part of that. Do you not think Ottawa would consider a 1 year deal with him? I would expect Kuba would accept it, hands down, he knows where this team is headed, he'd be stupid to consider the free agent market if he's sure to get top 4 minutes on an emerging team. Then we'd at least have the opportunity mid season next year to evaluate and trade him, which would more than likely still result in the same value, a 2nd or 3rd round pick, instead of just letting him walk away at the end of the season. I'd rather see Murray take the chance on someone who's been one of our more consistent D this season, than Carkner who's having a hard time making a regular start on this team.
I think we can all agree Kuba has played better than Carkner. I understand the current salary is a 3M difference, but I wouldn't see Kuba being signed for more than 1.5 or 2M if he's given another year which is more than managable and what a top 4 D man usually goes for in this league. knowing the future of this team and being given a chance to sign 1 more year, I think Kuba would take it.
My reason for thinking this way, I don't see any of our top 3 Bingo D, Borowiecki, Gryba or Wiercioch doing a better job than Kuba or playing more minutes than he has done to date. It's not to say they aren't ready for the jump, as I'm sure Murray believes at least one of them would be, but I'd expect Carkner would be the odd man out who doesn't get re-signed, and if he does it's a two way deal, meaning he'll be replacing whoever comes up from Bingo. At least he'll get to play at a constant pace.
ok, lets be realistic. Johanesen AND Carter for Grabo and Schenn? are you kidding me?
at this point, they'd be lucky if they could get even one piece out of any team for Luke Schenn. Unfortunately, the leafs have royally fucked up what was a really good defensive prospect in Schenn. Grabo is UFA. Johansen is a non-starter in any trade talk with CBJ, this was said a long time ago when the Rick Nash silly season started. Carter looks like he will stay with CBJ because the rumors have been weak about him and the same could also be said about Nash.
IMO, the league is way too close this year. All teams making the playoffs are going in with a decent chance, and it should be a fun playoffs i think because of that. Therefore, every team has a resistance in jumping for those two names in CBJ. My bet is that if Nash/Carter deals dont get done by deadline time, CBJ dumps its current management and both Carter/Nash stay in CBJ. Which is probably the right thing to do I think. All those stupid pundits that keep saying Nash absolutely needs to be traded are just stupid pundits. I think something is up in CBJ that people don't know the full picture about. How can a GM be allowed to trade elite players like Nash and Carter so easily? These are players you build a team around. CBJ this late in the season should be happy as hell because they will be a lottery team. They could add another deadly piece to what is on paper a lethal combination of Nash, Johansen, Carter, and Brassard.
What they need is a good coaching change, just like our beloved senators, some nice solid draft picks to add to the positivity. someone like Karlsson (but there are none like him lol) and steve mason seems like a decent goalie so they have the Anderson parallel over there.
Cheers.
the protocol is that I give you my address and you send them to me free of charge.
/end derail!
He's not coming back next year unless we're really doing a crappy job of getting our young D ready for the NHL.
Of course if somehow Gonchar moves out or if Lee gets packaged in a deal with no D coming back then maybe. But otherwise he's not coming back.
Phillips, Gonchar - running out their contracts
Karlsson, Cowen - building blocks
Lee - should be another building block IMO
That leaves one spot for Gryba, Wiercioch, Borowiecki etc to fight over.
No room for Kuba.
I still believe that it is more likely that Kuba isn't around for the start of next season, but I have been saying sice the Turris deal that I can see a logical course of events that end up with Kuba signing a new 1 year deal, especially if we lose another blueliner between now and the trade deadline.
The key is whether Murray believes any of Borowiecki, Gryba and WireCock are ready to play significant minutes next year. If the answer to that question is yes then Kuba goes.
as some mentioned, we tried desperately to get rid of him last year, truth is at minus 100 over two years and paying him 8 Mil no one would touch him even for nothing.
Now he is in his CONTACT year, and possibly his last chance at a contract in the NHL, and he decides to play his best hockey in 3 years... coincendence? I think not, I think he plays ONLY for Filip Kuba and is not a team player.
Fast forward to this year, where he does have some value, and now we argue hs is too valuable to trade? Really, he is the reason we are winning games? Yes his numbers are better, and he is playing better, but for the love of God, I cannot think that Kuba will be the difference in winning a Stanley Cup.
Yes I do agree with the argument that he is our rental for this year, and we should keep him if only offered a low draft pick.
And we had better lose him in the summer, and not pay what some dumb teams will overpay for his services (ie Rangers)
But if the right deal were to come our way, we would be insane to to consider taking the trade.
Now people are saying lets move Gonchar, as irony would have it he is this years version of Kuba, and cannot be moved... but if he has a great year next year, would we want to move him???, That is the question of the day...
I see your side of it as well, but I think of it this way:
The chances that whatever pick we get for Kuba meaning cup/no-cup is very, very slim. I think it's outweighed by the also very, very slim chance we have this year with him PLUS the added experience for all our young players getting in a playoff push and some playoff games way ahead of schedule.
Yeah we won't have an extra Shane Prince-type player but all the guys we do have will be further developed by having been around this spring.
I fully expect Murray to have guys like Gryba, Da Costa, Petersson etc as "black aces" during the playoffs and down the stretch so they can get a taste of what it means. That to me is more valuable than an extra pick. Not to mention the poor message it sends to the team which would be something like "yeah you have no shot this year so I'm dumping our #2 D for a pick".
So I'm guessing you've never had to come back from a broken leg and play in the NHL?
Are you kidding me Hax, how can you say something like that?
The clock is ticking and teams are quickly getting MORE desperate for that piece to put them over the top... here is what has already transpired the past couple weeks:
Grossman, RFA, 6pts, +1 for a 2nd + 3rd round pick
Quincey, RFA, 23 pts, -1 for a 1st plus prospect
Kubina, UFA, 11 pts, +1 for a 2nd, 4th, prospect
Gill, UFA, 9 pts, -5 for a 2nd, Geoffrion + prospect
What would this guy fetch?
Kuba, UFA, 22pts +18
I would consider Murray a retard to flip Kuba for a 3rd or something, but he is smart and already put word out a team would need to "overpay" for Kuba. What if someone came offering a mid first-round pick a third and a strong defensive prospect?
It's Murray's job to listen, and listen he will. It all comes down to what is offered that dictates whether it makes sense to move him, especially given he is likely to not be here next year.
What happens, happens and in Murray we trust, but it's rubbish to not acknowledge that we may get a very strong offer for him.
In Murray we trust. I don't object to moving him at the deadline if the value is right and I also don't object to resigning him for next year.
edit: he is getting up in years and I would guess after a strong season he would be looking for at least a 2 year contract.
Rush, the point was made that Kuba could be traded AFTER the season has finished but prior to July 1st.
In that scenarion, I think Hax is right, who would trade for Kuba's negotiating rights? Teams would just wait until July 1 and see what happens.
I think you are right with what Kuba could be worth, never looked at it stat wise. While I do think BM will do what he said, hold on to Kuba, it would be hard not to move him if someone overpaid.
Thanks for clarifying Apostle, that must have flew over my head somehow.
If that is the case Hax would be right, the market would be entirely different come July 1st and hard to say what if any "trade value" he would have simply for his rights.
Chirp, I think the big difference in the two sides is the ones who still want to get rid of Kuba know he's being overvalued this year. Sure he looks good out there and has put up some points, but he's still not that great of a Dman, and definitely not someone you want on your 1st pairing. He's not going to get any better, so the best thing for all parties would be to make sure we get a return from him instead of waiting till he gets injured again or falls apart in the playoffs.
Murray and others in the organization have hinted all year that 1 dman in Bingo is pretty much nhl ready. I don't know if it's Boro or Wiercioch, but either way I'd rather get a return for Kuba (especially at the ridiculous prices being paid right now) and let Lee and one of those kids get their playoff experiences in this year as prep for next season.
At the end of the day Kuba is not going to make or break our playoff run this year, and though I understand the whole reward the veterans angle, we'd be better off trading Kuba and bringing in someone else who would be here beyond this season.
Right now, Kuba is playing on avg 23:30 mins per game. he has 22pts, +18 in 52 G, 9 PP points, is playing about 3:01 minuts in SH TOI/game. has two SH assists also. Plays about 1:49 minutes in PP TOI/game. Right now on the WHOLE TEAM, he is only behind Karlsson in TOI. He also takes the most # of Shifts/Game. So for him to be let go, someone has to bascially become the #2 D-man on this Ottawa Senators team. and that kind of replacement can only come through some crazy blockbuster trade at this time, that is sure to cost ottawa some forward depth.
Like it or not guys, the team and the team's coaching staff, ownership and management wants to make the playoffs and does not believe that any of the other Ottawa roster D or Carkner or the three D-men in Bingo (Gryba, PW, BoroCop) can replace Kuba in a fashion which does not impact team success for the next 21 games.
As far as maximising Kuba as an asset and getting value for him, Ottawa has no choice but to sign him in the offseason to a trade and cap attractive short term deal that works for him too and then trade him sometime next season. To insure against him possibly being an impact player next year, Ottawa will have to make sure that atleast one of the three guys in Bingo are ready to play 20+ minutes on the night OR sign a 20+ minute playing top 4D that they know will work with Karlsson.
If Phillips is making 3mil, you can be damn sure Kuba will be wanting at least that too. His stock is as high as it's ever going to be, it can only get LOWER!!! He's not going to pot 70points next year.
That is not what Murray said. He admitted that the market is currently overpaying for dmen and then said he would trade him if he was overpayed. In other words he could trade him if the market remains where it is. That's a far way off from "I won't trade Kuba".
Wrong. He simply said it was "unlikely" and that a team would have to "overpay" to get him...
Mur ray was on Hockey Central at Noon and strongly hinted that Kuba won’t be going anywhere. Smart move in my opinion.
Thats from Chirp's blogpost above. Sure doesn't sound like tendency to trade. Sounds like he is talking about a core player on his team that a team would have to vastly overpay for because he is setting the bar way too high for Kuba - a first rounder. And please guys, stop comparing this to the overpayments being made for Grossman, Kubina, Quincy and Gill. The picks traded for those guys will be picks at the back end of their respective rounds. Detroit's first rounder is going to be #29 or #30 because Detroit is slamdunk for president's trophy this year. Ottawa cannot get a mid-rounder (10th to 20th overall in the league) for Kuba because there are no teams in that range that need a guy like him. Name one, I don't know of any with defensive issues. Murray in an ideal situation probably wants one of the bubble teams ranked #20 to #30 overall, who still believe they have a shot to make the playoffs to overpay for Kuba. That won't happen, because at the very least all GM's are just as smart as Bryan Murray at making trades and that is a FACT.
Which is what teams have done thus far for D-Men...
2 picks and prospect/roster player is OVERPAYMENT for Kuba.
Exactly, anyone coming with an offer greater than a 2nd round pick is overpaying and thus the offer should be entertained.
Yes after a horrible year -30, Kuba comes back ready to redeem himself after working out in the offseason...ste ps on the ice catches a rut, and breaks his leg????? Really??? out for 10 weeks???
Sounds like someone who still has 2 years and 8 mil left on his contract and is very comfortable.
Now he decides to step it up... Why?
Foligno too had a broken leg and came back sooner, and better!
Miguel, great point. Kuba is a typical "perform for a new contract" type of player. I wish more fans would remember this!
I just remember how badly we wanted him gone last year, and absolutely no one wanted him at all, or he was gone.
Granted he is much better this year, but not a Stanley Cup winning difference,
so if the price is right, we should strongly consider it, because some rich dumb GM will give him another overpaid contract, for a couple of years... IMO of course
Kuba is in that category just like a VERY hight number of other NHL players in the league. It's a very typical Hockey Pool scenario to look at when you are taking a gamble on drafting player. Contract years are almost ALWAYS a good gamble, because players have a good history of upping the level of play, looking for a new contract. Kuba is not alone in that... just look at EK, it's his contract year!!!
I think you're missing the difference. Every player should try their best in their contract years, of course that is a given, it's just smart business. But certain players almost ONLY show up during contract years. Kuba is in the latter category.
Has anyone considered that it might be Karlsson that's making Kuba look good? What if we could toss another legit everyday-NHLer in there, would EK look worse? I sincerely doubt it. EK's skills are EK's skills, and I have a hard time believing that Kuba's making him look good with his shutdown prowess - Kuba's never really been known for his defensive game, the assumption that he's giving Karlsson more freedom on the ice by being steady just seems a bit simplistic. I think you can plug that hole with another steady, mobile NHLer and still have a top D pairing.
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