ChirpEd- Should the Senators Trade Jared Cowen?

SensChirp February 13, 2014 188
ChirpEd- Should the Senators Trade Jared Cowen?

WRITTEN BY SENSCHIRP READER- Tony

The Sens still have to decide if they are buyers or sellers at this year’s trade deadline, but I think the Sens should make a big move to help the team in the present and in the future. To get talent you must pay the price and the Sens have a few pieces they could move to acquire a good-to-great young player.

I think the Sens best trade chip is Jared Cowen. The young D-man has been playing big minutes with Karlsson on the first pairing this season. He has had an up-an-down season and has at times struggled to find consistency. However, he has all the tools to be a dominant player in the league. Standing 6’5” and 230 lbs, Cowen can take over games physically when he wants to.

His rookie season in the NHL was a success as he was paired with the veteran Gonchar. Last season was derailed by injury and this season the whole team has been inconsistent. I feel with the emergence of Cody Ceci, Cowen has been made expendable to obtain a player to help.

In my opinion, Cowen has lost his place in Ottawa. He was a captain of his junior team and came into Ottawa as a leader. But since being paired with Karlsson, Cowen seems to have no idea what his role is on the team anymore. Karlsson is our undisputed number one D-man. As his partner, Cowen must support Karlsson (just as Methot did last season), but Cowen seems to want to jump up the ice and dangle a la EK65. But most times he gets caught up the ice and does not have the foot speed to get back into the defensive zone. And in the D-zone, he seems to chase more than catch. I think Cowen may do better in a new situation where he can be one of the leaders of the D-corps.

With Ceci, Karlsson, Phillips, Methot, Gryba, Corvo and Wirecioch on the team, and Borowiecki in the AHL, I think the Sens will be fine without Cowen. The pairings can line up like this:

Karlsson – Methot
Phillips – Ceci
Wiercioch – Gryba
Corvo – Borowiecki

I see this D-unit working as well or even better without Cowen in the line-up. But who should Ottawa pursue with Cowen as the trading chip? I think they should swing for the fences and go after Ryan O-Reilly.

The 22 year old center/left winger seems to be the type of impact player Ottawa is missing. He’s tough and goes to the dirty areas, but also has plenty of skills to put the puck in the net. I think he would be a good winger/back-up center on one of our top two lines playing with Spezza or Turris. The only reason O’Reilly may be available is because he had a dispute with the Avs management (albeit another regime) and that his up-coming contract may price himself out of the Avs payroll structure.

The Avs are in need of defense and Ottawa is in need of an impact forward. Cowen could line up in the Avs top 4 immediately and could potentially move up to top pairing minutes too. This is a bold trade for both teams and could be mutually beneficial in the present and future. I think the Sens should go after a big fish like O’Reilly and try to make a run this season while they still have their current core together.

Thanks for reading.

  • Dirk-Diggler

    If they were to be able to get an impact player such as O’Reilly then I’d say go for it! The Sens would have to add to that in my opinion because ROR is a much better player at this time.

    I would not trade Cowen however for future picks or another unproven prospect. He’s only 22 and has had his career delayed because of injuries. I think he’s having a terrible season but with young D you have to be patient. I’d give him at least the next whole season before determining whether he is a bust or not. If we were to trade him and got little in return, then there is no point. I’d rather him toil away here then go for nothing and then magically live up to his draft status.

    He should be playing further down the lineup though.

    I’d like to see

    Wiercioch – Karlsson
    Methot – Gryba
    Cowen – Ceci

    extras: Phillips (traded at deadline), Corvo

    • SenaTHOR

      OMG Wiercioch/Karlsson minus one zillion

  • Dirtysweetness

    Cowan seems to remind me of a young Chara. A lot of the comments that were made about Chara was that he was slow, never in position and lacked grit. I think Cowan needs less time on ice, a proper mentor and patience from the fan base and coaching staff. Maybe some time in Bingo to work with Luke Richardson or here with Jason Smith.

    • Dirk-Diggler

      I agree that a season in BIngo is what he needs. That was supposed to have been last season and it was starting out really well for him up until that injury. Now however he’s on a 1 way contract and cannot be sent to the minors.

      • EHMatt

        Too bad he would have to clear waivers before going to Bingo. The only option is to play him in the NHL or trade him.

      • Sensnation

        Bingo? Really? You know you went off the deep end when you think he doesn’t even belong in the top 6.

      • Sandy

        So you want to lose him to waivers? Lose him for nothing?

  • Mike Bauer

    Only way id consider it is if you get another high end prospect back. But with his season, it’s fairly evident you lose any trade you make with Cowen.

    Patience. I ride it out with him. Trading him is probably a terrible idea

  • A-Train

    You’ve made a good case here. I look at Luke Schenn as a comparable scenario. High draft choice, lots of potential and a great rookie year. Then he seemed to lose his way. The Leafs did well to get JVR for him, another young player with promise who was having trouble fitting in. Cowen for O’Reilly could be a similar move.

    Just one problem: The Senators need solid D more than they need another forward now. I believe the organization still feels Cowen will grow into that role.

  • Senatollah

    O’Reilly only works if its a sign and trade and he has signed long term pre-trade. Sens would have to give up more than Cowen for the deal to work. Would also need another trade to complement the D as that second pairing might get chewed up on a night;y basis

  • karlssens

    If there is anyway we could have got ROR for Cowen, I believe that deal would have been made.. We would have to sweeten the pot a little bit. Cowen and Greening maybe haha.

    • s3nsfan

      Maybe him and not Parenteau was the trade and Colorado had to wait with their injuries.

    • Tooks

      If we could get any of those 2 I would do it in a heartbeat, Our defense is shaping up nicely with Gryba and PW46 emerging. We would instantly be a better D corp as we would cut out Cowen’s many mistakes, also Karlsson would probably feel alot better knowing he can attack and not worry his D partner being inept.

      • SenaTHOR

        But you can’t leave any defensive partner with numerous 2 on 1′s and have good numbers. Karlsson just has to clean up his defensive game over 60min.

  • The Apostle

    Number of games played in the AHL for our young blueliners:

    Gryba 193
    Wiercioch 156
    Borowiecki 135
    Cowen 3

    Cowen is learning his trade in the NHL because of injuries and over high expectations (mainly injuries) instead of where he should have learned it which was the AHL.

    • s3nsfan

      add to that the majority of those 3 minutes were not top 4 that explains at least a little why the others look more adjusted than Cowen. Not mention the TWO serious leg injuries he has already suffered and had to rehab through. Expectations people, curb them a bit, this is a drafted player by Murray, Dorion et al. just give him a bit of time, I bet he comes back next season, ready to roll.

    • sens23

      to be fair cowen has played 13 AHL games if you count the playoff run cowen joined
      i would be all for the sens trading cowen if it brought back a differene maker up front. i dont think ryan o rielly is the right target not because he isnt a difference maker but because the sens will have to pay him over 6.5 million per year due to that offer sheet the flames tried to pull last year
      if the sens are paying 6.5 million for a forward i expect a lot more offense than what o rielly would provide

    • Tcharger

      This post actually puts things totally into perspective, I actually had no clue that he had played so few games in Bingo.

      Hmmm, this kinda makes me want to give a lot more time….seems like we rushed him, and are handcuffing his development.

  • thepez

    “However, he has all the tools to be a dominant player in the league. Standing 6’5” and 230 lbs, Cowen can take over games physically when he wants to.”
    These are your words so what do you think the answer should be? NO!!!
    Does everyone remember the big Z with the NYI? He was a project. He was out of control and had no idea how to play defense. Then he comes to Ottawa where he developed his game. He played 4 years on the Island and they traded him. Why don’t you ask the Islanders and the Senators if they would trade the big Z now.
    You need to give this guy some time. Should he be playing less, of course. Probably 16-18 minutes. However with the amount of minutes he is getting, it is only expediting his growth. Remember that a d-man does not reach his prime until the age of 27, 5 years from now.

    • Tooks

      Chara was/is a special player, Cowen is not. Chara is 6’9 260lbs, Cowen is not. Chara has the blood of an Olympian, Cowen does not. Chara always had a cannon for a shot, Cowen does not. Chara has the heart of a lion, Cowen does not. Chara was/is mentally strong, Cowen is not.

      Please dont compare Cowen to Chara, like apples and oranges.

      I agree with playing Cowen less, its probably our only move as I doubt any teams out there would trade something good for Cowen.

      • Sensnation

        Wish you wouldn’t compare him either. It’s like you’re comparing the guy you stalked to the guy you won’t look at.

      • Yukon Cornelius

        Can we not state that Cown has no heart//isn’t mentally strong? I’m not trying to defend him but unless you have someway of backing this up(beyond him holding out this summer, which doesn’t justify either of those labels) it just seems slanderous.

      • Miguel

        hmmm interesting perpective Tooks… that’s exactly what the Islanders were saying about Chara when they traded him to Ottawa!

      • boom

        Tooks, I know how you feel about Cowen, but easy on the apples and oranges crap.
        I have always been a Chara fan – I remember telling everyone who would listen how much they were going to love Chara in Ottawa, when they made that trade. People were saying “who”?…(Ok, I’m a long time Islander fan)
        Because of this, I also remember how bad he was his first few years in Long Island:

        82 2 7 9 -27
        65 2 9 11 -27
        59 2 6 8 -8

        Chara wasn’t always as good as he is now. I still think it’s a valid comparision.

      • thepez

        You have just proven you only have watched Chara the last 10 years at most. Trust me, Chara was not a special player his first 5 years in the NHL, Chara only played for his country at the Olympics starting in 2006. Was not chosen for Slovakia in 1998 and 2002, where they finished 10th and 13th. Chara never played at a World Junior, Cowen did twice and was named Assistant Captain. Cowen at 22 is ahead of what Chara was at 22.
        Is Chara the better d-man now, yes, but when you start comparing guys learn the facts before you spew out the hatred.

      • TookieIs100PercentRight

        Bang on Tooks!
        Senators are always way overevaluating their guys. DaCosta is Adam Oates, Cowen is Chara, Borowiecki is Scott Stevens, blah blah.
        Cowen is a third pairing defenceman on this team. On an elite team he’s in the AHL rounding his game.
        Now, would I trade Cowen? Nah. But I’d listen to offers on ANY player, a non-playoff team needs to do exactly that!
        TOOKS100% OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • BeJamin

        Cowen has a very hard shot… easily 100MPH. One of the hardest on the team. Shows how much you actually know about him. Also, Cowen is a baby in terms of NHL experience. You cannot say jack shit about what he will or won’t become. Let it ride. We lose any trade we make involving him right now. He will figure it out.

    • thirstytraveller

      I tend to agree with thespez. It seems that a number of fans here where at one time a cowen supporter and have grown frustrated with his slow development. Cowen is still growing, not vertically, but filling out his massive frame. He’s no Tory Krug, whos been 170cm since junior and has been able to become comfortable frame. Cowen is still a project. I think Cowen needs two years. If he can’t get up to nhl speed in that time then get rid of him. I think what helped Chara – i mean a lot, was having Jacques Martin as coach. Cowen needs someone other than Chris Phillips to teach this guy the craft of being a soild Dman. Trade Phillips now!!!!!

  • Miguel

    Nice write up Tony,
    Cowen certainly is a very difficult prospect to deal with.
    Excellent rookie year, where many experts as well as fans, could easily compare this protege to Chara. In fact it could be argued that Cowen was even better than Chara was at that same age, and I even went as far as to say that Cowen, following that rookie year would win the Norris.
    Sinc that rookie year, his game has fallen dramatically, to a point where arguably, he is the worst of our 8 dmen on the team right now.
    What has happened?
    He clearly came back from that knee injury no worse he wear, and was dominant as a rookie. Therefore, perhaps a year in the AHL would not be necessary. However, this hip injury may indeed be the root of his decline. For a big man Cowen had this natural ability to skate, and keep pace in the NHL. And as most gifted players, this mobility agility for a big man, made him a force, and as most naturally talented players, this is taken for granted and they make it look easy.
    Since this hip injury, he is no longer the same player, lost his agility and mobility, and cannot keep pace in the NHL. For a kid who could make up for mistakes with his skating, he is now lost and way out of position and cannot make it up.
    The real question now, is this a permanent problem?
    And is management mishandling this prospect, by putting him in situations where he is set up for failure ( which I feel is more to the problem, and if not handled properly we will ruin this prospect )? To me the answer is to find out what the root of the issue is. Take him out of the lineup, rehabilitate him, and then once improved put him in a condidtioning stint in the AHL. He needs to learn readjust his game accordingly to his new capabilities.
    But trading him now, is very much buying high and selling low

  • Millennium

    Cowen is the prospect with the biggest chance of being a lose-lose. Keeping him on the top line is a disaster. He should be playing in Binghamton, and at this point, I wonder if this amount of overexposure is going to destroy his potential. On the other hand, if you sell slow and he becomes the next Chara, our team loses out hard.

    Happy I’m not the one with that decision to make.

  • Sensnation

    Cowen for O’Reilly really does not improve this team. Cowen’s position is in much higher demand in the NHL than the role O’Reilly plays, which we already have many of.

    I know Sens fans are frustrated, but if Murray seriously put Cowen on the trade block, the number of teams that would come calling would surprise all of you. And it’s not because GMs and coaches in the league have no clue about Cowen, it’s because they know what fans don’t seem to want to admit, players of his ilk take time, but in the end the payoff is well worth it.

    If you’re going to trade Cowen you really should be getting a top 3 forward, or else there’s no point. At the end of the day, building a team takes patience, and fans just need to learn how do be patient! We aren’t planning to win the cup this year, so he’s being thrown to the wolves to learn. You may think it’s a failure, but I have no problem with Cowen’s growth this year.

    Covering 2 players so Karlsson can do whatever he wants, is by no means a defensive scheme. Not sure how fans see this as a viable option. Methot could not do what you are asking Cowen to do.

    • Tooks

      I doubt many teams would enquire, its not like he hasnt had any injury issues, he’s gotten worse from his rookie season, that tells you alot about his progression. Its rare for any player to regress this much, most usually stay on par or become a tiny bit better every year.

      With Cowen you have a big slow guy who’s probably not gonna get any faster, his knee and hip prevent his agility and mobility to grow to NHL demands and for his size he needs it to be a bit better than all the rest. He needs major work and wont get it playing in the NHL in our top 4. He has no first pass, cant handle the puck, loses almost every battle in the corners, makes ill-timed hits/pinches. His mental game is in shambles and he was a hold out.

      No team will touch this with a 50ft pole, especially if your asking them to give up a top 3 FW…

      We would have to sweeten the pot, add in a roster player and probably a pick for a legit top 3 FW.

      • Sensnation

        Lol, sure Tooks, good to know you’re still completely clueless.

  • MethotToMyMadness

    Norway is really laying the body on Canada. I don’t think they expected to be hit like that.

  • bluebuyyoo

    So, we get the regular HNIC crew. Funny thing is that whenever Hughson throws the commentary to Healey (between the benches), there is dead air. Is this just on the webcast or is Healey also inaudible on the TV broadcast? Not that I am complaining :-)

    • Millennium

      Its Webcast only. And consider it a blessing!

  • MethotToMyMadness

    Weber with the 1st Goal for Canada. It took awhile, but the Canadians seem to be settling in now.

  • senshockeyfan

    I wouldn’t trade him yet. Give him another year or two and see where he is at. He does have lots of potential. In the mean time he shouldn’t be logging top minutes.

  • senshockeyfan

    *off topic

    The AHL All-Stars played Färjestad BK of the Swedish Hockey League last night and won 7-2. Mike Hoffman had a goal and two assists and was the AHL player of the game.

    • Jacques

      Poor Hoffman must be scratching his head when he sees a useless guy like Condra with a job and he can’t crack the Lineup! Cue the great penalty killer bullshit!

      • Sandy

        They are NOT the same type of player… Hoffman is an offensive player.. Condra is a defensive forward..

  • Yukon Cornelius

    I feel like most people are at least getting fed up with Cowen’s current play.
    Yes, he has potential.
    Yes, he plays a good game frequently enough for people to keep defending him.
    But, he is currently more of a liability then an asset.

    That being said I don’t think trading Cowen is the solution. I think our D is young and developing, bound to have some growing pains. If Murray is going to make a big play for anyone I really hope it is for a top 4 D who can help mentor some of the younger dudes. We saw what Gonch did for Karlsson’s game, maybe padawan Cowen needs his Jedi Mentor too. Scoring hasn’t been an tremendous issue for the Sens this season so while bolstering the forwards with another bonafide scorer would be great I have to say it’s the backend that needs immediate attention.

  • sbs138

    without even reading the article my answer is No.
    you don’t trade a young dman of his size and potential after 146 regular season games. he’s got lots of time to figure it out.

  • FBP

    I’m fine either way really, but lean towards moving him while we still can. As long as it is for a decent, young return and it’s out west (EDM or Winnipeg maybe).

    Over his career Cowen seems to have a good year, followed by a bad year. So it’s a tough call.

    His terrible on ice decisions and mini-holdout or whatever at the beginning of the year sway my decision.

    As long as we hire a couple of other decent D come July.

  • MethotToMyMadness

    In regards to Cowen. Early in his career there was a lot of comparison to him and Chara. Somewhat because of size, but also because of how long it took Chara to develop and finally be the player he is today. People kept saying, give Cowen some time, don’t rush him, he will adjust and only get better.

    When Cowen started off his rookie year with a very impressive season, which included the Sens overachieving, people just expected it to get better. But last year he was injured, and this year he is playing at a level much lower, but so is the team. In the end, he’s still learning and he’s being given all the chances to continue to improve as the season progresses.

    Now let’s use that Chara comparison again. His first 4 seasons on Long Island, were nothing to write home about. He never scored more than 2 goals a season and his +/- was -27 in both 99-00 and 00-01. He was so bad that they shipped him out to Ottawa. And we benefited from that greatly. In fact that first season in Ottawa he had 10 goals, 13 assists for 23 points, 156 PIMs and a +30. From that point forward, he never looked back and only continued to progress. And when Ottawa let him walk, he got even better.

    Would Cowen get you the most in a trade, yes he probably would. But I’d hate to see him gone because that’s when he’ll blossom.

  • spartacus

    I disagree in that I don’t see Cowen as a rushing defenceman getting caught up ice. He has troubles in his own end with his positional play and puck handling. His positional play will improve with experience and more teaching. His puck handling skills will never improve unless he shortens the length of his stick and keep two hands on it.

  • ZaZa

    Chara in his first 231 NHL games with the Islanders had a minus 61!! And was a soft player to play against as u can tell by his PIM.

    When he came to Ottawa his +/- and point production jumped substantially along with his PIM. Why u may ask?Because Ottawa thought him to play MEAN! Like as if he was the boss of the rink.

    When I see Cowan play, he does not have that meanness Chara learned and that is the key to Cowan’s success in this league. He has the size, strength, and we seen glimps of his meanness in last years playoffs against MTL.

    Trade Cowan? I say no due to the fact all we need to show him is to play mean just like we did with Chara. Gryba learned

    • ZaZa

      Gryba learned to play mean and look how well he’s been doing because the other opponents know if they try to skate through him they r gonna hit a wall.

      • Sensnation

        Gryba’s a very different type of defender. If he doesn’t play mean, he’s not in the nhl. I think it’s a bit different with Cowen, though I do agree as he fills out his body his impact on games physically will continue to grow.

        • sprucesens

          i would think of any 2 players in our entire system, gryba is the closest to cowen. Big, hard hitting, simple playing D. I would say they are probably the 2 most similar D types that we have, at the NHL level for sure. Maybe include phillips in his prime. Problem right now is, gryba is far out playing cowen, by a wide margin. Difference is, cowen is getting top pairing minutes, but at the same time, gryba especially as of late, is getting a ton of PK time, to counter him playing on the 3rd pair, for comparisons.

      • Jacques

        Gryba is a better skater than Cowen! look how they move around the ice.

        • Sensnation

          Wow are you ever terrible at assessing players. If that’s your honest opinion on Gryba vs Cowen, it’s wayyyyyyyyyy off reality. Ask any hockey person what they think and then come back to us.

          • runningbear1974

            Gryba seems to hit guys whereas Cowen seems to push guys…
            In the last game against Buffalo, someone hit Cowen, he got angry and hit him back, and that guy just crumbled… Cowen is very powerful…

          • SenaTHOR

            When is the last time you saw Cowen stop somebody big? Gryba has stopped Lucic in his tracts many times since he came up. You watch Gryba closely and you will see that he is a good skater, just has long legs which look slower but his stride is enormous. Cowen is just brain dead at times. Can’t seen to make a split second decision. I don’t think he has had what you could call a good year since juniors and in the world juniors looked terrible. He’s like Luke Schenn, tires pumped up before the draft that have become seriously deflated.

          • sprucesens

            yes, this is what i see also. cowen plays too nice. He uses his arms to do all the hitting. He doesn’t use his body mass to get the job done. Hopefully he learns, because when he does, he can lay guys out

          • Jacques

            U can’t think clearly with Spezza’s shaft in your mouth. What I see is Gryba being the shutdown d-man and COwen all over the ice out of position, every f-ing game. Go write another crap article and omit the real problems like what do you do with Spezza going forward. What a jackass.

          • Sensnation

            Haha Jacques, too funny. Hope you enjoyed your monologue. Enjoy the season, and keep hoping for your all rookie AHL team. Of course there’s no room for development, patience or you know hockey knowledge when it comes to players. The NHL gms and coaches have nothing on you, they just haven’t heard your message, it’s so convincing.

          • Jacques

            Cowen can barely move out there dude, he’s closer to being the next Ryan O’byrne than the next Chara. Watch the games!

          • Jacques

            But when the games are on your too busy with your holier than thou attitude, you know everything, and the rest of us are all dummies. Some guys suck and some of us on here want to express it, if everyone was such a great player this team wouldn’t be10th. And then we want to bring a guy up from the AHL well we’re all stupid cuz our NHL players are all great and irreplaceable!

    • Tooks

      You dont learn to be mean, LOL. You have it or you dont. He got better in OTT cuz we had a great team, Islanders were shit.

      Also Chara was known to be a tough D to play against as he hit, fought and punished forwards in NYI.

  • NickofTime

    IMO Karlsson is the bigger problem defensively than Cowen. How often do we see Karlsson allow the opposition to beat him to a loose puck because he doesn’t want to go into the corners first? How often do we see Karlsson in front of the net doing nothing & the guy beside him scores? Not to mention all his turnovers & giveaways. Cowen works hard defensively & Karlsson coasts around letting Cowen do all the work. When Cowen takes the puck deep Karlsson should be watching his back but doesn’t.

    While this would be a fair trade IMO, I would hate for Ottawa to give up on a big tough defenceman, Ottawa needs to get bigger & tougher not softer & losing Cowen would leave a huge hole & make Ottawa even easier to play against. Trade Phillips plus something for ROR that would make more sense for Ottawa IMO & we wouldn’t miss Phillips as much.

    • SensChirp

      I shook my head so much at that first paragraph that I’m now a little bit dizzy.

      • Jacques

        Sheesh, feel sorry for Karlsson having to play with Cowen. All the offence on this team runs through the hands and skates of number 65! He just needs a guy who can play some D to be paired with. I would trade Cowen and bring up Claessen. Claessen can hit and skate the puck out of the zone. Go get something up front with Cowen. Sens need another top 6 young forward. Get that and you’ll see that this team will be well balanced all of a sudden. Cowen isn’t a good enough skater IMO. Don’t wait till he has zero value.

        • Sensnation

          All the other teams’ offense has been running through 65 as well. His points mean little if he’s allowing just as many the other way.

          • Jacques

            You have no clue man. Give Karlsson Methot back and bench Cowen and this team makes the playoffs no problem. Once you hit puberty come back and we can talk hockey!

          • Sensnation

            I’m older than you bud, but thanks lol.

          • sprucesens

            one thing to remember, if we are scored on, chances are, karlsson just got a -1. He’s always on the ice. if we are winning, his numbers improve. If we are losing games, he’s probably a – player. And considering when he’s on the ice, 90% of the offense starts with him making a clean break out of our zone.

          • BeJamin

            You’re forgetting PP points don’t count towards +/-…. if they did then Karlsson is a + big time. That’s what’s called a net gain for the team. Shot attempts don’t lie. Team is Stanley Cup Contender quality when Karlsson is on the ice. Keep on keepin’ on.

      • TookieIs100PercentRight

        You really shouldn’t have because it’s all true.
        Here are a few examples:
        1)Vs. Habs, Karlsson stands there and Gionta (GIONTA!) rolls by him and sets up a goal;
        2)Vs. Wild, Dany Heatley (the SLOW one) has an open path to the net and swats at the puck not once, but TWICE while Karlsson stands behind his goal line;
        3)vs. Boston, Karlsson twirls around and swings his stick instead of using his stick for a takeaway;
        4)OT vs. Penguins, leaves his man open (that Spezza lost) and again a goal against.
        It goes on and on and on. The points that we get from Karlsson are great BUT if they come at the cost of lazy or ineffectual defensive play that cost goals AGAINST they are obviated.
        I know you have no choice but to defend the team because of your connections, and that’s fine, but don’t pretend these things don’t happen because that’s insulting to the rest of us that watch the game under a fine-tooth comb day after day.
        TOOKS100% OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • sprucesens

          yes, karlsson has times when he’s lazy, or makes weak plays. But so long as he is producing, he is more than making up for it. No its not an excuse for lazy play, but remember the guy is on the ice for half the game, he needs to play somewhat wisely energy wise. I could probably pick any SINGLE game where cowen has made that many mistakes. So while karlsson shouldn’t be given a free pass because he scores lots, he is far and away our strongest D in both ends of the ice. The thing to remember is, when he’s in our end, he usually gets the puck and gets it out quickly, so he doesn’t have to make the hits, and fight players in front of the net, and take check after check.

          And if you are using the whole, getting points vs having goals scored agaist… using cowen is not a wise argument. He produces very little offense to counteract all the negatives he’s had this year, in the failed defensive side of things.

      • NickofTime

        Karlsson is the new Spezza for me, he is brutal defensively, he is a turnover machine. If it wasn’t for his offence what would his minus be? Is it because Karlsson is all world offensively that you won’t critizice his defensive play? Cowen needs to play with Ceci who takes less risks & is much more predictable, Karlsson needs to play with a more experienced Methot.

  • MethotToMyMadness

    So not as much Team Canada talk here as I had hoped to see. I figured Chirp would put a game day post and let everyone go crazy. But, I guess it IS SensChirp after all. lol

    Looking at today’s games, US and Finland showed off their offensive sides. USA comes out on top in way of offensive options though, as Austria isn’t the same type of competition as Slovakia, even though Austria managed 4 goals, thanks to Grabner’s hatty. The most impressive part was the American’s chasing Halak from the net, on route to 6 straight goals in the 2nd. That’s a testament to just how good the US team is. They’ve tried to tag themselves as underdogs this year, even though they are the defending silver medalists. I’m afraid that after today, nobody will take them lightly anymore.

    Russia had a solid performance against Slovenia, nothing too fancy, just getting it done. They got goals from players that were expected to score in Ovi, Malkin and Kovalchuk. I think everyone expected this game to be a higher scoring affair but Slovenia brought it’s best and managed 2 even strength goals from Z. Jeglic. Kopitar who?

    And then you have Canada who came out a little flat to start against Norway, in respect to what people anticipated. I don’t think anything expected the Norwegian’s to hit everything that moved, and it took Canada a full 20 minutes to adjust to that. What people seem to forget is that for Norway, a game like this against Canada, is a gold medal game for them. The odds of them facing competition past this round are almost zero, so they have nothing to lose. Canada came out in better form in the 2nd, allowed only 2 shots on goal and continued to roll in the 3rd. A 3-1 final doesn’t showcase how good Canada is, and I think that’s actually a good thing. Maybe it puts us in that underdog role now?

    • SensChirp

      Tried a Canada post earlier in the week and there seemed to be little to no interest.

      • MethotToMyMadness

        Oh well, us Fans will make due! ;)

      • boom

        Yeah, I noticed that. I wonder if it’s an age thing – maybe the younger people don’t care as much about the Olympics? There also seems to be distinct lack of national pride?
        Sad.

        • Jacques

          I can’t bring myself to cheer for a team that has Sydney Crosby on it. I hate that puke. I’m cheering for 65 and 11. For the rest of the events Canada all the way!

          • boom

            Like I said, sad…

          • Jacques

            When he came back from his concussion and cross checked Foligno in the mouth and didn’t get suspended and called it a hockey play I lost all respect for that weasel.

          • boom

            Ok, but it was perfectly fine when Alfie aka GOD threw a little temper tantrum and shot the puck at Niedermeyer, right?
            Oh, that’s right – he didn’t mean to…

          • Sensnation

            Pathetic Jacques, that’s exactly the opposite of pride!

          • Jacques

            I’m a sens fan dude I don’t value the Olympics , it’s just an overpaid event that bankrupts countries and enriches old f-ers from the IOC. These old coots than run around banging young chicks for two weeks and we organize and pay for it! Time the world told these old coots to go f themselves. No reason for these games to cost so f-ing much.

        • sprucesens

          i’m not sure its a national pride thing. Not for me anyways. I don’t care much for the olympics, but i love my country. My wife always asks me to live in the states where its warm all the time, and we can afford even bigger and better stuff. But i tell her no, i love it here. I love going through 4 seasons, and learning how to appreciate the summer, because the cold is coming. I always wonder why people travel to europe and australia and all these other countries, when they haven’t even looked across there own country. We literally are considered one of the best places on earth to live, and people that live here don’t even appreciate it sometimes. I’m certainly not saying there isn’t fantastic things in europe and so on, and that everyone is like that. But i really don’t think its fair to say someone doesn’t have national pride because they don’t care immensely about the olympics.

          On that point, i imagine older folks probably feel more of a “us vs. them” mentality, because their parents likely went through wars, and lives were lost. Also things like the cold war and stuff like that will have a huge influence on those types of feelings. I, being of a younger generation, don’t see all these other countries as enemies, but as the neighbors down the street, that moved here to experience canada. They might not have been born here, but i certainly don’t feel the need to have my country beat theirs down on the olympic stage, and get some sort of satisfaction in that, that it somehow makes me a better person for being canadian too.

          And i would also imagine, from other countries perspectives, they are probably sick of our self entitled smug attitude towards our hockey team, and “we’re the best!” Imagine if Russia was the best team, and we were on the outside looking in all the time. They would certainly be the one team you would cheer against, and want to beat the most. So while i will likely cheer for canada, as well as sweden in hockey, i certainly don’t feel less patriotic for doing so. And adopting the “we’re the best at our own game” attitude, feels a bit like sticking your tongue out to the rest of the world. So while you can enjoy the olympics your way, i don’t think its fair to blame others for how they view it, let alone call it a lack of national pride, and sad.

  • A-Train

    Sorry to throw a Hockeybuzz rumour up here…but he’s got E.Kane linked to the Sens again.

    Don’t think anyone would be surprised to see the Sens putting together an offer. And that’s one I could see including Cowen as the centrepiece.

    • Sensnation

      Though I could understand it, Winnipeg currently has a lot of good dmen. I’d pay just about anything for Kane though, he’s exactly what this team is missing up front.

      • A-Train

        Yeah. I don’t pretend to know enough about the Jets to know what they need most…other than goaltending. And we’re not trading Lehner, even for Kane I’d wager.

        As the ChirpEd here implies though, Cowen remains our most tradeable asset with value/pedigree — maybe O’Reilly is the best possible deal. Though I believe he often plays centre.

        • Sensnation

          I’m really not convinced Cowen is on the trading block. Other gms would see him and drool at the discounted price they’d expect to get him for. Murray has been clear in saying he’s getting inquiries, but mainly on players he’s not looking to trade.

    • MethotToMyMadness

      You just made 99% of SensChirp posters drool with that post, even if Eklund does that only for hits.

      • sprucesens

        yeah, while we have the pieces necessary, the cupboards would end up bare after the fact. Having said that, we wouldn’t need prospects for a few years, as we would have a very young core to play with for 5+ years. Stone, michalek, PW, and a 2nd? Stone is from Winnipeg, and has potential, michalek is the insurance piece that they would possibly be able to resign for cheap,(and we need to send money back, and lets them finish out the year while remaining competitive. PW could be changed out with a decent goalie prospect if that’s what they want. Seems to me they kind of want someone to help out on the pp, and try a little harder than byufglien. Its about the equivalent of 2 seconds, and 2 firsts. That’s if you can consider stone’s development to have moved him into first round territory. Michalek was a high 1st, but has definitely lost some value. I can see this package getting a convo going anyways. They might want someone like prince instead of the 2nd. Could be a very interesting week or so when the Olympics are over, if we have any kind of interest. I sure hope we do.

        • MethotToMyMadness

          What the Jets would want for Kane would be unreal, hard to say what the end deal would be if it happened. But I do think an offer of Stone, 9MM, PW, and a 2nd would get the ball rolling and it could even be close to that.

          It’s funny you bring up Prince, because I think out of all the Bingo guys that could be put into a deal, he may very well be the biggest target of many Teams. I only wonder if BM would consider moving him, because he’s one of those guys I think Management has high hopes for, as he continues to impress.

          • sprucesens

            yeah, i included prince simply because i don’t see a spot on the roster where he would out perform another prospect, or player currently in that role. Not that he isn’t a great player, we just might not have room for him. But i can’t see us parting with both puempel and prince, and i would say we like puempel that bit more, because of pure goal scoring ability.

          • MethotToMyMadness

            Yeah you have a good point, Prince would be the odd man out over Puempel and there are two main reasons. Prince is a natural Center, which we have an abundance of, while Puempel is a pure Left Wing who can score. And Puempel is considerably larger at 6’1″ 205 lbs.

  • Sensnation

    Does Price’s game today mean much in the goalie competition for Team Canada? Did his 1 mistake, which led to the goal, hurt his chances to unseat Luongo?

    • MethotToMyMadness

      I don’t think the final decision has been made. I think they planned for Price today, Luongo tomorrow and will go from there. Let’s see what tomorrow brings?

      • Sensnation

        Yes, that is the plan, just wondering people’s opinion on how he played and if it impacted what they thought going into the tournament.

        I think Price should have been the clear guy going in, but the 1st game is when the backups play, which makes you think they planned to go with Luongo.

        • MethotToMyMadness

          I heard some say the fact that Price got the 1st game is so Luongo would get the 2nd, and then Price would start against the Fins and be rested. I guess nobody really knows.

          As for today, he played well and kept Canada in the game in the first 20 minutes. He didn’t have a hard 2nd period, but also came in strong in the 3rd, outside of allowing the PP goal by Thoresen.

  • runningbear1974

    People keep saying Cowen had an amazing rookie year… I don’t agree… He was the worse defenseman on the team besides Gilroy… He was good enough given he was a rookie…
    Cowen was no where as good as Ceci is this rookie year…

    • runningbear1974

      I even think Gryba, Wiercioch had better rookie years, but i might be the only one that believes this…

      • Jacques

        I agree , let’s wait till Cowen is the second coming of Ryan O’byrne before trading him. We can’t hit a home run with all our young D prospects. 65-5-46-62 are looking good.

    • WaitingSince92

      Wrong. Cowen had a good rookie year. Don’t see any

      reasons to dispute that. D is hard, especially as a rookie. Hard to see how that point is even negotiable, regardless of how he’s playing now. What short-term memories we seem to have…

      • WaitingSince92

        Although, I’ll give you that he wasn’t as good as Ceci is now (but a very different player also)

        • Sensnation

          Cowen also has a higher ceiling than Ceci. I know people don’t want to hear this, Ceci right now appears to project as the next Phillips (in his prime, not current version). Obviously more skilled as each generation is more skilled than the last as a baseline, but I don’t think he will ever put up the offensive numbers some are expecting out of him. Still early, I know, but it seems to be shaping up that way.

          • runningbear1974

            I have to disagree with you there… Cowen lacks vision and anticipation, he’s slow witted… Ceci has great vision and anticipation, great skater, big body…
            In my opinion, Cowen had an okay rookie season,no better than Gryba or Wiercioch…
            I think Ceci is miles ahead of him and always will be…
            Cowen played well against Montreal, and played shit against Pittsburgh… Montreal is small, Pittsburgh is big strong and skilled… Cowen’s strength was not effective against Pittsburgh… (because of his skating and his judgement)…

            We are a development team, and if we put effort towards it, we can make Cowen be the best he can possibly be, and i believe MacLean is doing that…
            I like Cowen with Karlsson for now, because i don’t want Karlsson to be a diva, i want him to learn responsibility towards his partners, don’t always expect them to cover your ass, you need to be there for them too…
            Once Cowen and Ceci have enough experience i would put them together, and put Wiercioch with Karlsson…

          • sprucesens

            very well said. Ceci isn’t as big as cowen, but plays a much faster game. Both speed physically, and mentally is already making the next play. Excellent point about the karlsson diva thing. But i also think Erik is also his own harshest critic. Even on a normal play that he dominates, if he doesn’t score or create something, he’s frustrated with himself. He’s a true athlete in that regard. I really don’t agree with nation’s idea that cowen has a higher ceiling than ceci. While i hope no one thinks he will be the second coming of karlsson points wise, he will be a VERY good player for years on our team. Cowen’s only benefit is he’s bigger. That leads to things like more hits, and the coach forcing you to block more shots, and use you in defensive situations more than anything else.But so far, every other stat and skill, ceci is far superior at. And as someone else has pointed out, if you are hitting the other team a lot, that means you don’t have the puck. And that’s not a good thing.

          • runningbear1974

            I believe in Karlsson… I think he’s a true competitor and will continue to improve his whole career… this year he’s playing weird, trying too much, but that’s ok with me, if he’s finding his range…
            He’s not perfect, and has some major flaws…
            I think MacLean is aware of this, and is working his butt off to get maximum development from all our players, including Spezza and Phillips… Normally guys like Spezza and Phillips are considered too old to be developing…

          • WaitingSince92

            Cecil and Phillips almost have opposite skillsets. Where you got this comparison is beyond me. The only thing they have in common in good defensive positioning. Other than that, CP is a defensive stalwart, whereas Ceci is a great skating, good all around D with great offensive instincts.

            I’m not being facetious – I seriously want to know where you’re getting this.

      • runningbear1974

        sure… People say he had a good rookie season, i say it was okay and no better than Gryba or Wiercioch…
        I’m disputing it because people say he’s regressing, when i think he’s doing pretty much the exact same…

  • MethotToMyMadness

    Detroit Management must be pissed. Zetterberg reportedly is out for the rest of the Olympics. I wonder if it’s serious enough that he will miss NHL games, or was it a just a boo-boo and enough that Detroit Management pulled the plug on him to ensure he CAN return for the end of the NHL season.

    • Sandy

      Herniated Disk… could he require surgery?

      • MethotToMyMadness

        My Friend who I trust very much (google) told me that Herniated Disk’s can very from one end to the other in severity and there are multiple ways of treating it, one of them is just staying active. But right now, only the Detroit Dr’s would know what is happening.

  • runningbear1974

    Chara worked really hard to get the respect of the league, and the officials… He had to beat everyone up… Now he’s allowed to punch people in the face without getting a penalty…
    Chara seemed determined to be the most fit, and the strongest, and he went out and proved it…
    Cowen doesn’t seem to like punching people in the face…

    • runningbear1974

      I think if Chara got called for his infractions he wouldn’t be as effective of a player…

    • MoeDozer

      take it for what its worth but a close friend of mine works with the players (equipment manager) and has told me on many occasions how incredibly strong cowen is only 2nd to greening.

      too bad neither of those 2 players use it nearly enough on the ice. we’ve seen both dominate and almost take over games with their physical play.

      work ethic is definitely not the issue in this case

  • MakesSens

    This is for all of those people that dwell on the Chara era and see Cowen being his equal, so to speak. Cowen is no Chara, he may resemble him in girth but that’s where it ends. I get that Cowen is meant to be a learning curve but, it seams to be going as well as Brain Lee’s learning curve. PLEASE PLEASE get rid of this oversized idiot on skates. Everytime we get scored on and Cowen is on the ice, it looks like a horse put on a Sens jersey and is disappointed he didnt get his salt lick. His face gets droopy and his eyes wonder to the floor and I can just sense him say inside that thick head, “Geez Louise, what did I do this time?”. I’m absolutely positive Edmonton is looking for a big sluggish defenceman to call their own. I hear Eberle’s name is rumours lately. Not saying a straight up trade but, worth looking at.

    • sprucesens

      that was maybe a little negative for my books, especially making fun of how a player looks, but i did lol at the geez louise part.

  • Jacques

    You can go on you tube and watch Baby Sens highlights by punching in Bsens rewind and you’ll see that we have tons of talent down there. One guy who stands out is Claessen so solid. Rarely see a goal against with him on the ice. The kid is the leader on that team,

  • Millennium

    I’d rather see the team take a sheltered approach to Cowen’s minutes than throw him out there for 25+ a game. He clearly isn’t ready for top pairing minutes, regardless what you think of him longterm. He should be playing limited minutes as a 4/5/6 against bottom lines and not on the PK. Karlsson needs a stronger anchor on the back end, and Cowen needs to face more appropriate competition. They might be the pairing of the future, but they’re not the pairing of right now.

    Throwing players into the deep end and expecting them to swim doesn’t work. You can royally pooch their development with that kind of carelessness.

    • Sensnation

      If they weren’t surrounded by other veterans and skilled players that are helping them learn, yes it can hurt their development, but I do not agree that is what’s going on here.

      To attach the word careless to our gm and coach is a bit of a contradiction. Either you believe in the system implemented and just haven’t heard the full explanation on why they are still doing it with Cowen, so you question it, or your problem should be with the whole management team, at which point I’d say look at the results the last few years and trust the process.

      • Millennium

        I accept your point re: the word choice. I am actually a huge supporter of how we grow our prospects for the most part. I do assume that BM and PM know what they are doing far better than I. Its just hard to understand this decision, because it really doesn’t seem like the right choice. There have been coaching decisions in the past (this season) that I, and many others, haven’t agreed with, so I’m putting this one in that category. Murray is on a different level than Maclean in my “I trust the plan” books.

        • Sensnation

          Makes sense, and I think it’s easy for us to question all the moves we want in a season most fans are feeling disappointed by the results. Truthfully, skill-wise, Cowen is our 2nd best dman and one of the only ones that has a chance to complement Karlsson long term on a winning team. It may or may not work, but giving up on the experiment in a growth year with no expectations just to appease fans would be a mistake as well. I think the plan is working, and I look forward to seeing the stretch run this year, but even more how everyone comes back next fall after letting everything from this season sink in during the summer months.

        • Aaron 2.0

          I agree with this too, Millennium. I’m very trusting of Murray and company on their plan for building a contender. Coaching decisions have baffled me at times this year. Although, the players haven’t made the lives of our coaches any easier. They are a hard group to assess. Fans point to MacLean’s success the past 2 years. He’s the right guy for the job, IMO But, I’d argue he’s struggling to find his way a bit this year too. This is the first time he’s coached a team with higher expectations, that is probably slightly under-performing (at least compared to season projections at the beginning of the year).

      • Aaron 2.0

        I trust management and coaching to make the best decisions they can, but projecting player development or player return from injury is not a perfect science. Management missed the mark with Cowen and Weircioch. That’s not an indictment of management. These 2 players just haven’t developed into what management thought they would be this year. As as result, the defense is pretty thin, and Cowen is playing 25 minutes / game. I don’t think that’s an ideal situation, even if they are the top pairing of the future.

        • Sensnation

          I would say fans, not management, missed the mark. I’m pretty sure BM knew what he was getting into this year. Why else would he sign Corvo as an insurance policy. Media hyped the team up stupidly over the summer, yet fans are holding the team accountable for that and most of that blame is falling on Cowen, Spezza and Phillips. Gotta be realists, development takes a lot of time, not just a year or two.

          • Aaron 2.0

            Maybe you’re right, and Murray was playing a longer term game. Truthfully, I have no qualms about that. But, then why spend most of our UFA $ on Ryan and MacArthur, and less than 1 million on Corvo. It’s a pretty small insurance policy if you think your top-4 might struggle. I guess Ryan wasn’t a UFA. But he and MacArthur were the biggest additions from a spending perspective.

          • Sensnation

            Because of the depth. As fans keep listing, we have tons of good defensive prospects both in NHL and AHL, but there needed to be a year like this where they could fight among themselves for the extra ice time to try and make a clear line of who is and who isn’t in the future. I truly feel this year is about growth, learning and weeding out. As Murray said, 3 year rebuilding plan, this is year 3. He sees himself already having the 6 d he needs next year and the year after, just doesn’t know which 6 they are.

            The forwards were needed, and he’s been looking for them for years. Alfie leaving forced his hand on Ryan though.

            Without our current d situation, Ceci would never have been called up this year and we’d never have known he was ready so early.

          • Aaron 2.0

            Fair enough. I could understand that logic. The pieces for a pretty good top 6 are probably already here. But, i’m still not sure bringing them along this way is in their best interest. Competition is good. But, these young guys are going to take a lot of abuse this year. I hope they are mentally strong enough to develop through all of this.

          • Sensnation

            If the veterans weren’t around to help them mentally with it all, I would agree. I know Cowen seems to be a “throw him to the wolves scenario”, and though I don’t agree with that assesment, what better way to get him prepared for next year and to help develop his conditioning as fast as possible after his injury problems? Sheltering him on 3rd d line with few skilled opponents would be a disservice for his two way defensive style. Cowen needs to learn how to play against top players, both offensively and defensively, and that will take a lot of mistakes and patience.

          • SenaTHOR

            But unless you have a boner for Cowen he’s played like crap for a 3 mil d-man(average). I would say that PW46 is outplaying him and I NEVER thought that I’d say that.

    • Aaron 2.0

      I think I just wrote basically the same thing right before I saw your post (lol). You did it in fewer words than me though! I agree 100%!

  • Aaron 2.0

    Cowen’s value on the trade-marked is at a low. A potential suitor would probably be looking for a bargain of sorts on a player that “has all the tools” but has struggled to find any flow or consistency to his game. This goes against the adage of buying low and selling high. Trading him only thins out the blue-line even further! Cowen still has great potential, IMO. He needs to be put into a position to feel his way into the NHL, and thus succeed. So, far he’s being asked to fill a role that he’s clearly not ready for. In turn, that hurts his worth on the market. So, the best idea is to trade him? Another idea would be to target a top-4 D, so that the load on developing D could be reduced to what’s reasonable. I don’t think thinning out the D further in favour of forwards will help anything.

  • Sensnation

    Cowen vs Methot with EK:

    I know this is getting brought up a lot as the “better” top paring, but I think people need to review the stats a bit more. According to Behind The Net (only including defensive partners):

    Erik Karlsson – LM1 Cowen (48.9%) – LM3 Marc Methot (37.3%)
    Cowen – LM1 EK (59.7%) – no other dmen in top 6 linemates, though he’s PW’s LM1 (32.8%)
    Methot – LM1 EK (49.2%) – no other dmen in top 6 linemates

    What does this mean? Methot has been playing almost half his shifts with Karlsson THIS YEAR!!! I don’t know how people don’t see this, but the coach is starting Karlsson with 1 of them often and then switching him out for the other throughout the game as Karlsson plays more icetime than anyone.

    So for all the “bench Cowen, Methot is better” supporters out there, it’s been happening and it has not been better this year, as we’ve seen. The d on this team is very fluid, and though we have lineups with pairings the coach is using them all very fluidly and not always with the same guys.

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_on_ice_stats.php?ds=8&f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f4=D&f5=OTT&c=0+1+3+5+8+9+10+11+12+13+14+15+16+17+18+19+20#mf=t&sr=

  • SensFanInMTL

    Best thread ever. All I pictured was Conacher being stretchered out at the thought of playing against Cowen and his would-be team. In time, it’ll all come back and bite us in the ass. I guess another year of having him on the team and to decide whether to trade him is too soon.

  • Conor_smythe

    To Buf: Cowen+Conacher
    To Ott: Moulson

    To Col: Phillips, Greening
    To Ott: Parenteau

    To Phx: Michalek, Zibanejad
    To Ott: Ekman-Larson

    …or something like that

    • Sandy

      So you want Ottawa to trade Cowen within the division?
      It was mentioned in the article that Cowen has all the tools to be a dominant defenseman…
      Therefore, of course, the Sens should trade him..

      • sprucesens

        one thing to remember, now that we’ve drafted cowen, he is just another player on the team. Sure he has the size, and could grow into something special. But so could gryba. And people here are quick to throw him in as a toss in on any deal. Even though gryba has been probably our 3rd best D after karlsson and methot this year. He is all of 1 inch, and 8lbs lighter than cowen. You have to really remove draft order and therefore some of the “potential” surrounding a player. Cowen is always compared to chara, and frankly its not even close to the same situation at all. It’s 3 inches and 40lbs, and a guy who’s other job was wrestling, which i believe his father was as well. Its simply not a comparison that many people in the blogs should be making.

        So yes, being a big D is one thing, because you can’t teach size. And yes, we need to have patience with him. But there is certainly a much greater chance of him being just an ordinary large slow defenceman, among the ilk of guys like douglas murray, or hal gill to a lesser extent. (couldn’t think of another example), than there is of him being the next chara. It’s simply unrealistic expectations, and probably a 98% chance that he turns out to be even half as good. While he certainly should, and will improve his game, he certainly shouldn’t be regarded as the next coming of chara, and we need to suffer through years of needless losses because we are too afraid of losing “chara” again.

        I’m not saying we need to trade him, but if he’s seen as the main piece going the other way for a very valuable player, be it forward or D, its not something we should really get all bent out of shape over. He may turn out to be a solid 2nd pairing D, he may even excel higher than that, but chances are, he’ll be a reliable 2nd pairing, occasional stop gap on the top pair, type of D. But at this point, even that seems like a long ways off. So having the tools, and being able to effectively use them are 2 very different things.

        • Sensnation

          How can you not see the skill difference between a Gryba and Cowen? Cowen offers a much bigger skillset.

          Just because he’s compared to Chara doesn’t mean we expect him to become Chara, but a poor man’s Chara is still very valuable in the NHL. Either way though, he’s still developing and that takes time.

          He is currently playing top pairing minutes for a team that is 1 point out of the playoffs, yet somehow you doubt he could even be 2nd pairing? Just doesn’t add up.

          • runningbear1974

            What do you mean by “skilled”? Gryba hits better, makes better decisions, has better poise under pressure, overall more dependable… Cowen is better skater, and doesn’t fall down as much…

          • Sensnation

            Lol, ok. Enjoy your Gryba.

          • SenaTHOR

            Sounds like Grandma Cowen. Not sure what you’ve watched for the last 2 years!

          • sprucesens

            sorry, was away for some time today. I see 2 big players that play a similar game. Cowen may be able to grow into a better player, maybe not. But right now, gryba is by far more dependable. He might not be able to ever get points like cowen might be able to, but he is currently far better defensively. He is currently on our top pair, because karlsson makes every player look better. Like i said, i’m not saying the potential isn’t there. But currently he is playing at the quality of a 6th or 7th D. Yes he needs time to develop and prove himself. But currently, gryba is doing the little things right, and is being rewarded with extra ice time, and the coach finally trusts him to be on the pk, and playing big minutes. Cowen’s worst skill is his decision making. If he can speed that up, the rest can be taught, like playing more physical. Gryba’s weakest skill is his puck control. And that can be taught as well. But currently i prefer to keep gryba as our pk specialist, and stay at home D that throws big punishing hits, than i do cowen. And also, cowen will have immensely more trade value, if that’s the route we are to choose

      • Conor_smythe

        I actually want Sens to trade Cowen to Edmonton, I think they would like the Conacher+Cowen package.. but I wasn’t feeling bold enough to put a name like Eberle coming back, or creative enough to tweak the trade to even things out

        • Conor_smythe

          you could switch it, I suppose:

          Cowen+Zibanejad = OEL
          Michalek+Conacher = Moulson

          that way Cowen is going out west and Phx gets a Dman coming back??

    • Yukon Cornelius

      If Phillips and Greening is all it takes to snag Parenteau count me in.

    • Doc

      I’ll bite:

      1st trade: Overpayment. Moulson is a UFA at the end of this season. Plus I don’t think management is ready to give up on Cowen.
      2nd trade: I would do it but Colorado woun’t. Trade strongly favors Sens.
      3rd trade: I see where you’re going with this trade, but I don’t see Ottawa letting go of Zibanejad. The kid is already really good and only 20. I’m pretty sure he’s already considered an untouchable.

      That being said, I’m not sure who Murray is willing to trade at this point. I just hope that if a trade is made, that’s it for the future of the team and not for a quick fix to try and get into the playoffs. I’d rather they keep as many of their assets as possible.

  • MoeDozer

    im a huge cowen supporter and will not quit on that. i think everyone forgets how effective he was in the playoffs specifically on both of Kyle Turris’ OT winners

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UJ6WtEHcXM

    skip to the 2:15 mark watch cowen battle 2 habs in the corner to start a break out rush which leads to the offensive faceoff then Turris goal on next shift

    now go back to the rangers series..i cant seem to find a good video showing the shift before JOB and turris went on the break but cowen was on the ice working his tail off breaking up the cycle down low before gonchar was able to tip it to JOB

    the kid has potential. and excellent point by Apostle about the number of games hes played in the AHL. give him time.

    • PraiseAlfie11

      he is young

  • spoons

    Ottawa is need of at least one more top four dman and it is evident in all the mistakes that are made and the holes on the back end… And you want to get rid of him? Maybe if its dman for dman, but not for a forward! They were talking about the possibility of targeting gudbranson on the radio, which would be awesome. I’d be more than ok with using Cowen get gudbranson

  • Sandy

    We may not have the fan base of the Leafs.. but we are everywhere..

    Bobby Ryan ‏@b_ryan9 4h

    Btw.. We did find a Canadian bar and this Sens flag in Paris today.. Even met some cool Sens fans! #sensnation pic.twitter.com/nH5rKEqi7W

    Also congrats to Bobby Ryan & Cory Conacher on their engagements..

    • runningbear1974

      I’m loving Bobby Ryan, and Conacher…

    • SuckitPhaneuf

      Sighn Ryan right now!

  • PraiseAlfie11

    ChirpEd is an awesome idea. Love the different content in slow times.

    Hey, did anyone catch the arena roof shots on CBC? Shows the country flags across the top and sides. Damn cool.

  • SuckitPhaneuf

    Yes, the answer is yes

  • SuckitPhaneuf

    If edmonton is interested in Cowen plus a pick for Eberle you do that trade in a second

    • Dirk-Diggler

      They wouldn’t be though

  • Dirk-Diggler

    Alfie from Karlsson! 1-0 Sweden… Man I hope somehow he finds his way back

    • MethotToMyMadness

      Leave it to Alfie to put the game on his stick with help from his Friend Karlsson, This game just may end 1-0 with Sweden just edging the Swiss. Swiss is my dark-horse in this tournament and after this game, I feel good about that pick.

    • MethotToMyMadness

      Fans who were upset about him leaving have cooled off. The hype has passed and he’s doing his thing. He will either retire with Detroit or possibly test his luck with one more team who he fee’s is contending before hanging up the skates.

      When he is done, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him back in Ottawa in some type of advisory role or even a scout. He was the driving force behind Ottawa drafting Karlsson, so he has the eyes for talent.

      He’s having a good season in Detroit, more productive in 46 games this year, then 47 last year in Ottawa. He will however be relied on much heavier after the break now that Hank is injured, so no doubt he may reach somewhat close to the 59 points he collected in 11-12.

      • BFR

        Actually it was Anders Forsberg who convinced Sens brass that he can make an impact at the NHL level despite his size.

        • MethotToMyMadness

          I read a story, which I’m trying to find online now, that talked about Alfie having a much bigger role in seeking out and getting Sens Management to draft EK.

          • Senatollah

            think it might have been Alfie influencing the Jacob Silfverberg draft pick. Heard speculation that when Alfie left JS was put forth in the trade discussions for Bobby Ryan. Had Alfie stayed JS wouldnt have been part of the potential package. take it for what its worth – not much

  • aegiszx

    Alfie, King Karl, and King Lundqvst… A good way to start the morning! Heck of a game from both teams. The Swiss are definitely darkhorses, and they are only getting better, wow.

    • MethotToMyMadness

      Yup, out of all the teams the Swiss have been the most under-rated for many years, but slowly continue to climb the ladder of success. The biggest reason is the introduction of the Canadian game to their system. Many Canadian coaches have moved there and have started to build the system. Watch them close and you’ll notice they play a very Canadian style of Hockey.

  • thirstytraveller

    I dont think the Senators should be giving up on Cowen so soon. I’m sure the Islanders are still kicking themselves for giving up on Chara at the age of 24. D man traditionally take more time to develop – unless you’re unworldly talent like Karlsson – and Cowen needs 2-3 years to really get used to his mammoth size.

  • Hax

    The only reason to trade Cowen would be if you feel this team can’t wait for him to fully develop and can move him and other parts for an established top pairing guy.

    Anyone that thinks we should move him because he’s not that good or not going to be good is out to lunch.

    And count me in the group that thinks we only move him if we can replace him with someone better. In the same trade or in other trades, but if we want to contend for a cup soon we can’t have a middle pairing of Wiercioch-Ceci.

    • Tooks

      Good point, but by replacing him do you mean at D or just with a better player. I think Eberle is a better player and would impact the Sens more than Cowen ever could.

      Our D would be fine right now without him and Gryba or Boro can easily replace Cowen at what he does. Plus we have Claesson, Rutkowski, Sdao doing their thing in the minors.

    • Simple Jack

      We have guys in the system who may be better, right now cowen is an ok 3rd pairing but could probably fetch us the most in return.

  • jasonontheoldsenschirp

    The red Wings having the worst luck with injuries this season. Henrik Zetterberg is out with a herniated disc, the same injury that took Spezz out last season. That’s no quick recovery.

    Good opportunity for Ottawa to move up once NHL resumes.

  • esk

    where the hell do you find HIGHLIGHTS for the games? like wtf

  • bluebuyyoo

    Priceless! Webcast once again has Healey on mute! How do we get this feed for HNIC?

    • MethotToMyMadness

      Loving the no Healey commentating. Best he’s ever done!!

  • Tooks

    1-0 Canada, Doughty again. Kid is a beauty of a player! Wish we had him!

    • SenaTHOR

      8 mil a year not likely

  • Tooks

    Holy crap again…2-0 Canada.
    Weber again…Is this a repeat of Norway game? where are our big star forwards?

    • MethotToMyMadness

      Everyone is now expecting a big 6 goal 2nd period performance like the American’s had. Canada has started slow in game 1, came out better in game 2, with 2 goals in each of the first two periods. A 4-0 lead is great, and we still have 30 minutes of game time left. I have no worries about the way Canada is coming together now.

  • MethotToMyMadness

    Canada holds a 5-0 lead in the 2nd, Weber shows off his shot with his 2nd of the tournament. Doughty also has a nice goal and Carter nets 3 for the natural hat trick.

    Canada is starting to find it’s legs on the big ice, you really can see a difference in how the ice surface changes the game. Just waiting for Crosby to finally light the lamp.

    • Sensnation

      Finally the blowout we were expecting! Good to see the team continuing to push.

      • MethotToMyMadness

        Canada wins 6-0. They tried for 20 minutes to pad the lead, but couldn’t solve Lange, who started in the 3rd, replacing Starkbaum.

  • Cicero

    Thanks for contributing, Tony. I’m sure you’ve found much support here, but I beg to differ about both Cowen and also about any need to make a big move on the roster before summertime.

    The past 20+ game stretch has been a turnaround for the Sens. This young team needs time and more opportunity to grow and develop as a unit. I wouldn’t remove any pieces by force, not just yet. It’s hard to rank young defencemen, since they mature at different rates and in different ways. Karlsson, for example, may grow more defensively responsible even though he’s already an offensive superstar.

    Our record since Christmas has been very competitive, and I believe this augurs well for what the team can achieve now that the players are gelling into the system and structure,

    We have a young team that reminds me of what could become a likeness of Pat Burns’ Devils or the Sabres team that beat us in the playoffs about 10 years ago: a fast, tight-checking, puck transition team with goaltending that can steal games.

    I’d even go so far as to say that, given time and space to grow, we’re a Cup contender in three years with minimal tinkering.

  • MoeDozer

    Karlsson is getting some heavy praise from some canadian players.
    quote from St.louis “He’s fun to watch. Incredibly tough to play against and if you’re not there exactly at the same moment as him when he gets the puck then you have no chance. His first two strides is the best I’ve ever seen. I think no one has or have had the skating he has”

    and Doughty: ” He’s a phenominal player, some things he does on the ice leaves me speechless. I look at him and try to do what he does but i just can’t do it. He’s an incredible player and from what i’ve noticed from speaking to him, he seems like a great guy as well”

  • CUP 2014-15

    Could a three way deal work with St Louis, Buff and Ottawa ? Miller the prime to St Louis, Stewart to Ottawa, what does Buff get from Ottawa to make this work, along with a first from St Louis to Buff. One thing for sure, Tim will get his value

  • Captain Karl

    I think the time is now for BM to make some bold moves. Our cupboards are bursting with prospects. My proposal (and I know it won’t happen) would be:
    Spezza and Ryan to Phoenix for OEL
    Cowan and Stone to Winnipeg for Evander Kane
    Greening + to Avs for Parenteau
    Sign Alfie in the offseason for one year and then groom him for Director of player Development
    Next Year
    MacArthur Turris Parenteau
    Kane Zibanijad Conacher
    Lazar Pageau Alfie
    Condra Smith Neil
    Karlsson Methot
    OEL Ceci
    Weircoch Gryba
    Still leaves us with lots of prospects in Bingo (Hoffman, Grant, Prince, Claesson etc)
    We need to make use of our assets now. There are too many to make use of and we will lose them for nothing if not managed wisely.

    • karlssens

      Lol.. No

      • Captain Karl

        Care to elaborate

    • PraiseAlfie11

      Honestly, trade 1 is a no way right off the bat. I like where you’re going by investing in D, but no.

      Trades 2 and 3 are honestly in no way acceptable by the other team.

      • Captain Karl

        It’s not that far fetched really. A deteriorating star and a guy that is likely to bolt for a top notch defenceman.
        A number one pick and a decent prospect from Winnipeg for a former number one pick.
        Avs were almost going to trade Parenteau for Bourque so Greening + is also not out of the question.

  • Simple Jack

    Why did the team cave and give cowen a bigger contract without proving himself? We luckily dodged the unmovable long term contract, cowen needs devopment and right now i dont see him being as good as a prospect as we all thought.

    If we can get a great young player in return then do the trade, but just dont do a trade just to make one. Get creative murry and trade cowen for a top six.

    Like cowen stone and conacher for kane

    • Captain Karl

      I don’t want to throw Conacher in there. He learned from St.Louis how to play as a small player. He works hard and I can see him being like Marchand from Boston. A line of Kane Zibby and Conacher would be an absolute terror to opposing teams.

  • TrueLou

    trade him..yesterday! he may in fact become a useful d-man, but for now, he and #65 are re-defining “soft” defence(the fact that they’re even together brings coaching in question). Last year, #65 had the benefit of #3, which allowed him at least 2 mulligans/game..this year, well..u can read the stats. How bout this…2 and 65 to edmonton..hall and perron to sens..

  • Neil’s Feels.

    Dreger reporting that the Sens want a 1st round pick for Philips.

    If they get that, it will likely be a late round pick, as Philips would be going to a contender, but it’s better than nothing seeing as we don’t have one in the first round in 2014.