Unlike last year, the Sens haven't really engaged in many fights but obviously management feels like this is something that needs to be addressed. As McKenzie says, they are looking for someone who can "drop the gloves with authority."
Obviously the Sens GM didn't like the idea of Dziurzynski being put in a spot where he had to go with a much larger and more experience McLaren . No matter where you fall on the "fighting in hockey" debate, the reality is it's still part of the game and obviously a need Ottawa feels they have to address.
Both Chris Neil and Zack Smith are capable of dropping the gloves but have been pushed into elevated roles this season and have been a little more reluctant to fight and rightfully so.
Preferably the guy Murray targets will be someone with enough skill to take a regular shift but those guys are pretty rare in today's game. I'll do a little digging on my end and see if there any names attached to this rumour.
In the meantime- what do you think? Do the Sens need to add toughness?
Where do you see the best hockey? Playoffs! And where do you see the least fights? Playoffs!
Imagine real life, where richer people could afford a tough guy to follow them around and put people in their place. How can we not condone something for real life but think it's great in hockey?
Does anyone think that winning that fight would have impacted the result?
Maybe BM wants someone to fight so that Neil and Smith don't have to, but why not just avoid engaging other teams fighters, and exploit the fact that they are wasting roster spots on them?
Toronto's 4th line last night was McLaren-Steckel -Orr. If DD didn't engage McLaren, they would have had no impact on the game and the fact that we have four lines of capable non-goons would have been a significant advantage.
Darian Dziurzynski?
JK...
but seriously, how about a guy like Tootoo or Thorburn.
I don't think its really necessary to be honest.
I would much prefer another Neil type player that can find the back of the net and hits everything in sight.
Later
Kono doesn't "fight". He's more than happy to stick up for teammates and gets some fighting majors, but I don't think he's ever beaten someone up on the ice.
I'm wary of this notion of adding a fighter. Not that I wouldn't LOVE to see someone (or a few guys) step up so Neiler doesn't feel like the only option. I'm sure there are some occasions where Neil would be happy to fight but he might wonder "who protects my teammates for the five minutes after?" Or with Neil's luck maybe it's 17 minutes after.
But I do hope that if they do add a guy that he's not "stealing" ice time from someone who deserves it more. It had better be a guy like Neil or with even more skill that would be considered a good add even without ever fighting.
Last night was the first time in a long time I missed Foligno (though still would not reverse that trade of course).
You miss the old goaltender interference penalty?
On a side note, I am not sure this was passed along but Bobby Butler was picked up off waivers by Nashville.
Clarkson would be absolutely incredible... which is why we would never have a chance of acquiring him. I'm sure Devils will resign him. Players like that don't grow on trees.
Don't get me started. Those were 50% "reputation" and 50% Nick having trouble with his new instructions to "get in the paint" more.
But of course was more the fact that he can play good minutes and is also willing to drop the gloves.
Plus, no matter what happens I'll always love the guy for punching out Heatley at a local restaurant.
Quoting Phoenix:
But neither one can play a regular shift. Parros is next to useless and Carkner is only useful on the blueline (and it seems Murray wants a forward).
The player I really think Murray should try and get it Chris Stewart... I believe he has tried to get him before but he is the big tough player that we need. Can put up the points, hits like a truck and is also a really good fighter that does not back down from anyone. (if you dont believe me check youtube)
Thats who I think he should or maybe is looking at.
No idea what they would be looking for in return.
I know that Clowe is old and is not playing well this season and does not fit
the rebuild plan but Clowe is not afraid of dropping the gloves.
Chris Stewart would be the guy that I would like to see Murray get out of the two and Stewart fits into the rebuild he is still young.
I know you're just taking a jab at Smith to keep up with the Joneses but my OCD told me to reply anyway.
Smith for 5 minutes in the box means 5 minutes of Turris trying to shut down the opposition's top line - and that's not a good thing for us.
I'd love for Smith to score as would everyone including Smith and PMac, but the fact is that when we pretty much have to keep the opposition to 1 or 2 goals to have any hope of a shootout, Smith is too valuable on the defensive side of the puck to demand anything more.
If the team could score goals, then Smith could be fairly asked to fight or score or find himself in the press box for a game or two.
What ever happened to Francis Lessard ?
McLaren is an enforcer:
http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/1236
DD is not:
http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/15856
sens have the necessary toughness for seasons and post-seasons, but they need to exert it in a smart way. sens do not need konopka or carkner style players who dont bring much else.
simple solution yesterday would have been for DD to say a simple NO to McLaren and if he insisted, let the ref take over. there is no need for the senators certainly to indulge in staged fights. if there is a good reason for it - as in settling score, standing up for a teammate, then i think the players on the team are more than equipped for it.
if Murray is talking a Morrow, Clowe, Iginla, Benn type of guy, then thats different.
everybody is throwing around the names of forwards, but that's not really where we need the help... we've got Eric Gryba playing first line minutes for crying out loud
I wonder if Ottawa could get a guy like Adam McQuaid out of Boston
So yea BM go right ahead and get this team a bonafide heavyweight tough guy. Also on Melnyk saying he doesn't want a goon, well I think he meant he doesnt want to employ players like Matt Cooke who go out making dirty plays and try to hurt players. Im sure he wouldn't mind having someone on the ice to protect his teammates when its needed.
Jared Boll, Columbus, 6'2, 220lbs
Andrew Alberts, Vacouver, 6'5, 218lbs
Stu Bickel, NYR, 6'4, 210lbs
My Favorite:
George Parros, Florida, 6'5, 228lbs
Hopefully cooler heads will prevail. I don't mind a fighter but it needs to be someone that can play and pull their own weight rather than a goon.
Anyway yesterday was more the result of our #2 goalie suffering from a lack of focus due to overwork and probably excessive self-analysis (Andy can't come back fast enough for me) than lack of toughness.
The best part of yesterday's game was this: 4 fricken goals scored. Hopefully that was the Milan effect manifesting itself. He had a solid game and NYR should be exciting.
CHI Daniel Carcillo
VAN Jim Vandermeer
CAL Brian McGrattan
SJ Ryane Clowe
EDM Ben Eager (born in ottawa)
COL Shane O'Brien
Quoting Hax:
Video or it didn't happen. I heard this once before on here last year. Probably you again lol.
I really loved Sutton too, he knew how to throw a massive hip check and I thought he was a pretty serviceable defenceman.
Carkner is getting paid way too much now and Parros can't play a regular shift.
We need someone like Prust, Lucic, Dorsett (CBJ), Simmonds, or Clarkson.
Can score a bit and take a regular shift and not be afraid to drop the gloves.
Would love to see either:
Daniel Carcillo
Arron Asham
Milan Lucic
Jared Boll
Patrick Bordeleau
Brian Mcgrattan
losing a staged fight only creates the perception you're not team tough, but really means very little. I think we have enough guys who can hold there own should they get run at, etc. who the f cares if we don't have a guy who can do well in a staged fight?
Carkner was amazing to have but mainly because you could give him 6th d minutes and not worry too much about him as a liability while providing that extreme toughness. that is a rarity and its why the Islanders gave him a 3 year deal. mind you, he has barely played due to his injury prone-ness
that said, adding a power forward would be amazing, albeit extremely difficult.
Problem is, these players rarely ever become available.
David Clarkson
Milan Lucic
Dustin Brown
Scottie Hartnell
Wayne Simmonds
Nathan Horton
Ryan Callahan
Joffrey Lupul
Ryan Clowe
Erik Cole
Chris Kunitz
Gabe Landeskog
Chris Stewart
David Backes
Ryan Clowe is likely the only guy on that list that is available right now, but he seems to have slowed down a bit recently and may be on the decline.
Clarkson is a UFA this summer but it has been rumored that he will either resign with NJ or sign with the Leafs. Horton is also a UFA this summer but he comes with a history or concussions.
The rest of those guys are obviously unavailable. It was rumored at the trade deadline last year that Dustin Brown was available but definitely not anymore.
Add Jarome Iginla to that list.
Also I really don't follow the Columbus Blue Jackets much, who does?, but I noticed Dorsett on their team plays 15+min a game, scores some goals and drops the gloves on occaision.
24 pts - 6 fights this year so not afraid to drop gloves... 6'5" 230lbs...
Yeah Iginla is one of my favorite players of all time. If he becomes a UFA this summer I would love to see the Sens sign him to a 2-3 year contract.
I don't know much about Dorsett either, but I saw his stat-line yesterday and brought him up as a guy that could be a good target. I can't say I know much about him.
As some have already stated, this would be a horrible move unless the player we get is as valuable for his actual play as he is as a fighter.
No Parros, no McGrattan, no Boll, no Bickel. No guy that can't play 10 minutes in MacLean's system without fighting.
Sounds like Dorsett is most likely out for the season as per ESPN
"Dorsett suffered a fractured clavicle in the first period of Thursday's win over Vancouver and is likely out for the rest of the season, The Columbus Dispatch reports."
2009-2010 Blackhawks (Bolland, Brouwer, Burish, Byfuglien, Eager, Ladd)
2010-2011 Boston Bruins(Lucic, Marchand, Horton, Thornton, even Bergeron)
2011-2012 LA Kings (Brown, Richards, and pretty much their entire bottom 6)
For all the skill that those teams had, they also had a shit ton of guys that could throw their weight around and get in the oppositions face.
All we really have is Smith and Neil up front. Greening can be one of those guys as well if he just remembers or massive he is and starts to get more physical.
Agree - but the guys you list can all play as well for the most part.
I think DD would be one of those guys, but of course he's not on the team if everyone is healthy.
Maybe this really means that Murray's "quantity for quality" trade will be for a guy like the ones you list (or a couple of them). Though as you stated earlier - they're not easy to come by.
I know you have high hopes for Noesen, and he's one guy in our system that I can see, or at least hope develops into a top-6 powerforward.
I would be ecstatic if he develops into a Dustin Brown, Ryan Callahan, or Chris Kunitz type player. These guys may not be the biggest in stature, but they play big and all have the heart of a lion lol
Hopefully Noesen can be that guy for Ottawa sooner or later.
So if we go after them expect to overpay
If you add Lucic to Neil, Smith, Greening, Cowen, Methot and Boroweicki, suddenly our team doesn't look quite as soft. Maybe Kramer or Jessiman (with 7 and 6 fights this year respectively) get added in to the bottom six (maybe filling holes left by pieces used to get Lucic or whomever).
I get that this year has been painful with only Neil and Smith fighting until Daugavins finally snapped - but I don't think there's a long-term problem here. At least not a major one that can't be fixed with some smart changes.
Very true on all accounts. But yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see us draft guys that are at least "not soft" for a year or two. We have a good amount of skill in the system already. Not saying we only draft pluggers of course, but more guys that fit that "power forward" model.
Let's not forget our toughest prospect though: Robin Lehner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc_o0CskAeo (Kinda graphic)
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Swiss+hockey+player+into+boards+permanent+paralysis/8067614/story.html
Permanent paralysis :(
Yeah I'd like to see that as well. I was hoping Murray would look at Tom Wilson last year at the draft, I think he ended up drafted by Washington?
Anyway obviously I'm happy that we drafted Ceci. If he can improve on his defensive positioning and foot speed he has absolutely ridiculous potential.
We get punched out, so now we are looking for toughness?
We are about to play Boston and lose a game so Alfie is available?
They are in the business of hits, followers and mentions, so of course they will say stuff like this
If anything look for a deadline deal that will land us a tough 6th dman similar to what we did when we brought in commodore, sutton etc thats Murray's go to deadline day deal
I just added my opinion not because of what was said on TSN because I didn't even watch tradecentre last night. It was because Chirp's blog and at the end he does say "In the meantime- what do you think? Do the Sens need to add toughness?" That's why we are having this discussion.
we have:
Greening
Michalek (watch him jump in to defend Alfie)
Gryba
Smith
Neil
Boro(if he gets the call)
Methot
Daugavins
Just cause we can't drop gloves with "Authroity" doesn't mean we should be pushed around
Having a plug play 5 min with "authority" Im sorry I just don't buy how that deters teams from playing their style. I don't see Lucic being scared of Carkner or Greening. He will do what he normally does. Same with Prust or Parros. They aren't scared of people
Exactly - hockey media are there to facilitate the hockey conversation as much as (if not more so) to report actual news. Otherwise, they would rarely have anything to say at all, and that isn't a better alternative, IMO.
haha maybe. and as an added bonus; now that Detroit is in our division (conference?) we have someone to fight Pavel Datsyuk. ;)
Well I don't really care where or who started this topic anyway, I do think it is a good topic to debate about. I think the team has been pushed around by opposition a little too much in the last few games. Whether BM has no intention to change anything or does, I believe this team lacks toughness. I talked about this with friends even before the season started I said if this team is going to make the playoffs, I hope BM adds a tough guy at the deadline because they are going to need a player like that for the playoffs after letting Carks and Konopka walk.
Nobody can deny that Carkner had a huge impact in that Rangers series.
If we were to play minnesota would you be "deterred" to run Parise into the boards?
If so why?
If so why not?
Exactly what I've been thinking.
All of Murray's little hints have really been pointing in that direction...and I like it!
Get it done B Murr! (oh and Go Sens Go! Kill those freakin' Blue Shirts)
I would do Erik Condra, Eric Gyrba + low/medium picks/prospects
Both good players with upside... however chris stewart is a big upgrade on Condra and Cowen MORE then covers for Gyrba when he comes back... Boro in the mean time
Chris Stewart is 25, 6'2''-232 lbs and leading St Louis with 20 pts in 23 games. He's scheduled to become an RFA this summer, but the good news is St Louis may have to part ways with him because Berglund, D'Agostini, Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Cole, and Russel are all also RFA's.
St Louis has some big decisions to make.
But back to your trade offer, that is nowhere near good enough value for the Blues to consider. Maybe we would be able to acquire his rights at the draft for a pick and/or prospect.
YAAAYY
If you want to waste a roster spot on someone whose there to play 3minutes and wrestle people down than just call up Jessiman.
This toughness shit is retarded, so he lost the fight, we lost that game because Bishop couldn't stop a beachball, not because the team was scared to go on the ice because big bad Mclaren got to them.
This shit aint the 80s, we need someone who can fill the net, not fill the penalty box.
Problem I have with a lot of tough guys is that I don't want dumb penalties on this team. I have so much respect for lucic, he is amazing BUT...look what happened last game they played against us. Lucic was so frustrated at the end..i knew he'd do something stupid, you knew he'd do something stupid...and yup...got a penalty right at the end...when his team could of finished us up cleanly with a bit of coordinated effort on their part.
Bring me some toughness, with a some skill, and some disciplin....th at is why i LOVE CHRIS NEIL!!!
MM - Spezza - Silf
Zib - Turris - Alfie
Neil - Smith - Clowe
Greening - Regin - Condra
Daug - JOB - DD
Even if he's on the decline he's only 30 and someone i'd def take a chance on. Could prob get him cheaper too.
And if we can someone on Zibby's 2nd line spot (Iggy
My favorite fighter and current ufa (but wouldn't sign him) - David Koci
THIS ^^
I don't see Buffalo and Tampa as being a playoffs teams.
It is frustrating that we don't automatically dropped the glove when a incident happens on the ice, we wait for neil to jump on and go hunting and makes it look stipip IMO...
Who ever is on the ice and something happens drop the damm gloves regardless of who you are. just grab on,
WE NEED OVERALL GRIT not necessarily fighters only
1.5mil is way too much for a guy that plays like 7min a game.
Yost's article was dripping with condescending sarcasm. He feels as you do on role of staged fights
Yost can s my d for stringing Chirp on with this site before, but he was being sarcastic with his entire blog. In the comment section he went on to say that players are pansies for wearing helmets, etc, etc. It was a troll blog.
It's odd that BM is only realizing now that it's an issue, but I don't think the guys we could pick up through trade will be that skilled, it'll mostly be the pure goons who can only play 5mins a night. We need another Chris Neil.
I agree, but he was a good locker room guy as well. Hell, Phillips is making $3M this year and doing half as much as Carkner would haha
6'4. 200 (going to grow still)
4 fighting majors this season
8 Total last year
Is a defence man which is what senators actually needs
Plays underrated role on deep Boston blue line
Signed for 2 more seasons at 1.7per or less(can't remember)
Only 26 years old
Canadian
Plus! Whenever we play Boston, I hate playing against him... probably means he's good at what he does
Yes he is out lord an savour and will stand up to guys like Mclaren.
George Parrows is better option, at least he has a goal this season and will probably cost a conditional pick.
Poquito reminder Hax, Kono dropped the gloves almost immediately when the game started so he could pad his fighting majors count (Don Brennan was getting tents in his pants writing about this) and was singularly useless the rest of the time.
Even worse we had to put up with Konopka's SISTER braying the national anthem for jiminy's sake.
Enough of Konopka, they eliminaetd hand passing in faceoffs and now he's nothing but a mediocre mutt.
P.S. TO B-MURR! WE DON"T NEED MORE TOUGHNESS. WE JUST NEED GUYS LIKE SILF, REGIN, MICHALEK AND OTHERS TO NOT BACK DOWN, NO WE WON'T BACK DOWN AND FIGHT THROUGH THE HITS AND CHECKING
TOOKIE100% OUT!
Jessiman, Blood.
I'm sure if it wasn't for his broken hand in Oct.. Gryba would have fought as well.
Look at the new divisions coming for the next 2 seasons.
Bos, Buf, Mtl, Tor all have toughness..
Sens need to address that..
But what I want to see gone is staged fighting.
You do that.. it's the 5 min + a 10 min misconduct on top.. You have 3 of those.. you get suspended for a game.
I'm all for fighting resulting from hits.. cheap shots, etc.. but this staged fighting pisses me off.
And my thoughts and condolences to Ronny Keller of the Swiss League who is now paralized for life from a hit.
When will that happen in the NHL?
He's a good analyst. But that's about as far as it goes. I've seen way to many 70-hour pre-trade-deadl ine marathons; none of these guys actually know a thing as far as trades go
I agree we definitely need more team toughness but I dont think we need to get new players to obtain it. We aren't losing games because we're not tough enough. We're losing because we can't score.
We need the players we have now to toughen up a bit, not new players.
We need some damn scoring!!!!
if it has not been evident yet that for over 3 years Spezza has been a PPG guy single handedly, then it is absolutely clear now!
he needs a winger!
Look at what has happened to Turris now that he is playing there.
And for gods sake, what has Turris done in the last 20 games that makes him any better than Regin???
Yet one is still a good 2nd line centre, while the other is never going to play in the NHL????
Bothers me that we have certain pets on this team, and others are always the goats!
sit Turris down for a game, he looks injured or tired, let Smith or Regin staty there for a couple of games and see what happens!
you want a meathead sign Lessard before the next Laffs game!