Pierre LeBrun from ESPN and TSN posted an article this evening that matches what we have heard from the Sens time and time again this year. They are not about to move any of the club's top prospects in order to obtain a quick fix that could help the team this season.
Here is an excerpt from an article LeBrun posted tonight.
The Senators have looked around the league and made calls regarding a forward, but the asking price is more often than not one of Ottawa’s top prospects. And that’s a no-go.
"I’m not doing that, I can tell you that," Sens GM Bryan Murray told ESPN.com Thursday. "I’m not looking for a short-term fix."
The Senators still have their eye on the big picture which is to continue with their plan of developing a young and talented team. No short-cuts.
Still, if a top-six winger with an expiring contract is available without having to give up the farm, Murray will look at it.
"I’d be OK with a rental if it was the right price," said Murray.
I think this should tell Sens fans all they need to know leading up to the February 27th deadline. If Murray makes a move, it will likely be a minor one and at a reasonable price. Murray is in the enviable spot where he doesn't NEED to make a move and it's clear he would be content to stand pat if the prices are too high.
Murray will continue to talk to other GMs to see if that affordable top six forward option becomes available but he will not deviate from the team's long term plans to make a move.
The sens biggest weakness this year is their inconsistency. They can beat the best or they can be the worst on any given night. The addition of one player would not change that. The Sens are best off with the team they have going into the playoffs and hope they are playing their best come the postseason.
Stay the course and see what this team is capable of. Lots of help coming the next 3-4 years. Build from within
Could Murray possibly trade a bad contract for a bad contract
Gonchar for ???
Suter, Parise etc?
No sense buying a rental unless we get one for less than we get for Kuba, Carkner or Konopka.
He has a lot of extra money in Cap Space, and Melnyk wants
to wait before commiting any large contract.
Karlsson is up for a huge contract, and so are a few other
players. Rick Nash would be a great addition, but does he want to come to Ottawa ?? And for how many players ?
He will make a wish list, but Ottawa will not be on it !
Zach Parise might also be a super addition to the Senators roster, but at least 15-20 teams, will be in the bidding game to sign Parise. I think he ends up in a NY Rangers
jersey ( no pun intended ).
Ottawa needs to wait till July 1st, to make a sound decision !!
Eberle, hall, hipkins rounding out your top six and u still manage to fall at the bottom of the league. Im glad the ottawa senators orga has alot mor pride, when things where going really bad they steped up and took care of buisness. Proud to be a sens fan. Be red ... Hockey makes us..... A playoff team... Go sens go
I honestly believe the Sens think they have a shot at Parise in the off season.
a good solid playoff run by the sens will bolster that shot significantly.
that's nice that they think they do but do they? Can they compete with say, an LA Kings team desperate for a top line scorer? Personally I am not getting my hopes up but obviously it would be amazing. Reality is they are going to have to outbid 29 other teams. You never like the odds of a small market team outbidding one of the big boys.
While I agree that prospects and the future are the most imprortant thing for Murray to consider and we can and should be patient, a trade might be the only way to secure a top line player vs. free agency.
Making a move to better the club with a player signed to a contact beyond this season though, I'm sure that is something they will always keep the pulse of.
Once again I'm not saying we SHOULD make a pitch for Nash, that depends on price obviously, but if we did gun for him this would obviously not be the rental type that is discussed in this article, rather a player that fits into our longer term plans.
The team that has the best shot will be toronto... Burke/Wilson love him and he played for wilson on the Olympic team plus Kessel is there and that will help... then Burke will go trade for Stasny....
I hate the Leafs, but these are very dooable transactions
Sign Parise
Trade for Stasny
I would much rather sens going after Suter and built with Suter/Karlsson/ Cowen at D... and draft a D in the first round
Let our prospect fall where they may... Silver and petersson/Zibby are almost locks to make the team next year...
2 players I want badly
Erik johnson and Jack Johnson could u image game over
J Johnson Karlsson
Cowen E Johnson
Col has no 1st or scoring
LA rumors is Johnson is on the block
..... and still suck!
But would make a good first line
Parise-Stasny-Kessel
Sorry Chirp I usually agree with most of what you say, but keeping Kuba IMO would be a mistake, for a team that is rebuilding.
You say that these are real people, well so were Fisher and Kelly, who were fan favs (moreso than Kuba), and really did help our rebuild immensely.
Realistically, will Kube help us win the Stanley Cup... I say no
will he be a big part of our cup runs in 2 or 3 years, most definitly not.
Should we bring in an young D to show what he can do for us (Boro, Gyrba, Weircoch) and see if they can be part of the dream team in 2 or 3 years... I say yes, and in the meantime pick up a 1st or 2nd round draft pick in the process before we lose Kuba for nothing.
He will fetch a stupid contract from someone like the Rangers that we should not match, and certainly he will not take a hometown discount... IMO of course
I would like to other posters thoughts on this.
Quoting BMKing:
A good first line .... on any other team. Leafs suck.
FORWARDS
Mika Zibanejad ($1.775m) / Jason Spezza ($7.000m) / Milan Michalek ($4.333m)
Jakob Silfverberg ($0.900m) / Kyle Turris ($1.400m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($4.875m)
Nick Foligno ($2.200m) / Zack Smith ($0.700m) / Bobby Butler ($1.050m)
Colin Greening ($0.816m) / Jim O'Brien ($0.875m) / Chris Neil ($2.000m)
Kaspars Daugavins ($0.600m) / Erik Condra ($0.625m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($6.500m) / Erik Karlsson ($5.500m)
Mark Borowiecki ($0.610m) / Jared Cowen ($1.265m)
Chris Phillips ($3.083m) / Sergei Gonchar ($5.500m)
GOALTENDERS
Craig Anderson ($3.187m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $54,795,833; BONUSES: $1,275,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $9,504,167
This is more to simply spark conversation. It is interesting to note we would still have 9.5M in cap space remaining (even after adding Suter/8.5M if we added Parise). You have money for Cowen when he's up for contract with Gonchar leaving. Alfy money goes to Zibby one day. Silfverberg gets part of the remaining 8.5-9.5. And you have another 5 million or so for upgrading contracts for when others are up for contracts.
You can also notice that we have 14 forwards (so room to trade one or two) as well as forwards like Stone/Petersson /Noesen/Puempel /Prince/Pageau coming up in the next 3-5 years.
Completely different circumstance with the team holding down a playoff spot.
Do you think we will be serious contenders this year?
Or are we simply very happy to make the playoffs, and in all liklehood bow out in the first, or second round at best.
Then lose Kuba for nothing,
I think that a kid coming up, could do no worse than with Kuba in the linep, we still make the playoffs, and most likely bow out soon after.
Difference being we stock up on a 2nd rounder as opposed to losing him for nothing.
It's fine for a fan to take that realistic "happy to be there" approach but these are professional athletes. I can assure you they won't be packing it in once they make the playoffs. Players train, practice and fight all year to get to the playoffs. Once you get there, anything can happen.
Do I realistically think they have a shot this year? Probably not. But I sure as hell expect the guys in that locker room to believe they do.
Exactly and in the end what is more valuable? The players you have getting some playoff experience and their manager showing faith in them? or a second round pick who could amount to nothing and the team's hard work being rewarded with a capable D-man moved just before the post season?
you always bring up how bad he was in his first two seasons which is irrelevant. FAct is, when Kuba is out of the lineup right now, the Sens usually lose. no one wants to resign him but do you give up icing the best team right now, while you are in a playoff hunt, just to get a 2nd or 3rd round pick next season? Do you really think its worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick to sacrifice icing the best team right now?
when exactly can any team guarantee this is "their" year?
It will be a solid measuring stick for Kuba with age and salary
its also about how this team plays defense and what attributes are necessary for it to be successful in the majority of the games. Kuba may be 35, but he is the best overall defenseman on the team bar none. he gobbles up time on the PP and PK. plus he provides solid insurance for Karlsson in sticky situations. he is a big body too so going into the corners for him is not a disaster waiting to him. basically he is not like Gonchar who has more than a few deer-in-the-hea dlights moments in a game.
moving on, this team has got itself in an awesome position where its vastly trumped all expectation or lack-thereof. hell man, now we have comentators going back on their word on every sports channel saying they always expected the sens to do this good. plus, we know the team's real weakness is in the backend, and it was witnessed during the losing streak. that makes Kuba helluva lot more important because as Chirp said he is the best overall defenseman on the team.
Sens have a chance at something special here, because in the playoffs you never know. Now some may say to get some more pieces added onto the team to maximise that chance and some like you may say that its a pipedream anyways so dump pieces and go for it later. I think given what the sens have already collected and where they have come to this season, there is low risk and possible high reward in sticking the course and standing pat. remember, you never know in the playoffs.
Have u seen Murray's draft recorded with 2nd round picks prince silfverberg lehner Wiercioch
Quoting FAIL4NAIL:
great prospects for sure but Prince and Silverberg havent even played one game yet. Little early to use them as evidence of great 2nd round picks, no?
Good investigative work SC, good to see Murray sticking to his guns (Although I would love Nash), now you go and tickle me with this little bit...Parise would also be awesome, Spezza must be drooling at the potential of this!
So your saying you would trade either of those for Kuba if you where a gm of other team
These guys obviously believe in the team and in their chances, and they are the players. Us fans can speculate, but I dont think we have the right to not believe in them when its clear that they all do. The sens this year are special and lucky. you look at a team like Toronto, years and years of massive trading, ufas, buyouts, the disaster with Sundin...the Kessel trade, goalies....yet they still find themselves behind the sens in the playoff race.
and just like someone said, there are no guarantees for next year, only hopes and plans. this league you have to make the most of the shot you have when you have the shot, however, its important to not completely gut the future while taking the shot.
Fisher and Kelly were expendable, we had a plehtora of forwards waiting in the wings, we dont have that luxury on D, having him till his contract ends is no big deal, even IF he re-signs it wont be more that 2 years, 3 max. He is our most consistent D right now and apart from Karlsson, our best D-man.
you always bring up how bad he was in his first two seasons which is irrelevant. FAct is, when Kuba is out of the lineup right now, the Sens usually lose. no one wants to resign him but do you give up icing the best team right now, while you are in a playoff hunt, just to get a 2nd or 3rd round pick next season? Do you really think its worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick to sacrifice icing the best team right now?
when exactly can any team guarantee this is "their" year?
Yes I do see yours and Senschirps valid and strong points.
My question to you however is, was it worth seeing Chara walk away for nothing, after we lost out to Buffalo?
Granted a huge difference in Kuba and Chara, however I still will argue that Kuba will not make much more of an impact to our team, than with Boro in the lineup, and will give him valuable experience that will be needed in the next couple of years, when we do have a more legitimate shot at the playoffs, and dare I say the Stanley Cup.
I guess I do not value Kuba as much as others, but I will be the first to say how wrong I was, and will say it happily, if we keep Kuba and we go to the Stanley Cup.
thanks for you thoughts guys
Post of the day candidate. Well said.
haha, no of course not. I'm saying the odds of a contributing player to keep contributing for 4 more months are greater than an unknown 2nd rounder panning out long term.
I would definitely take Kuba for Ruslan Bashkirov, Kirill Lyamin or Igor Mirnov.
I am in agreement with you, and unlike TO, I do not want to sacrifice the future for a mediocre shot at the playoffs.
I said before the year started, and even made a bold and friedly wager with Tookie, that this team would make the playoffs,when most did not believe.
It was risky but I believed the youth, goaltending, and MacLean would be enough to get us in.
However I still do want to build for the future, and keeping players around now, that will not be a part of the future, when we can add more by moving him, to me, is sacrificing the future, when I cannot see us winning the cup this year.
Having said all this, believe me no one would be happier to be wrong than me, if we win the cup and Kuba puts in the SC overtime goal :)
Again thanks for the valid points
Go with the team that got them where they are. If trading any D -- I don't think it would be Kuba.. but maybe Gonchar... but then again what team would take him with that contract for next year.
I watched highlights of Grossman this morning.. that's one mean SOB. Question is.. can Philly sign him for next season? Do they have the cap room to do that? Didn't know a lot about him.. and heard he's Swedish. Would he be a fit in Ottawa next year... Us fans want a tough D to play against.. that appears to be him.
As for Parise.. he said it was about $ and going to a contender... Could St. Louis be on his list?
if a team gets desperate at the 11th hour and offers a solid prospect or a first for Kuba then I am all for it. But I am not eager to get rid of Kuba just for the sake of getting rid of him.
I'm going to say Kubina to Boston, he will give them an excellent shot at repeating.
Jack Johnson I believe will be wearing an Edmonton Oilers jersey of not this year then next.
If Ottawa is serious about going after Parise, I think they have a solid shot. There simply isn't that many teams that are rounding the corner of a rebuild with a legit #1 center and proper cap management.
If he does in fact sign somewhere else, it likely creates new opportunities because most teams would need to unload players.
On one will touch Gonchar or his contract, added to that he has a no movement clause, he is immovable
Ironically Gonchar is this years version of Kuba last year.
We could not move Kuba last year, and now that we can, people do not want to move him.
Although I do get some of the arguments, I am still in the move Kuba camp, but if someone were to offer anything for Gonchar I say we take it.
Good point Boro would not be better than Kuba, but I think that Karlsson, Lee, Cowen, Phillips, and Gonchar could eat up those extra minutes, and still manage to get Boro some NHL experience, but it would be risky, and agreed probably not as good as with Kuba in the lineup.
I've been in the trade Kuba camp since we re-signed him, but at this point let's ride out the year with him and see what the team can do.
I do worry though that his play will convince BM to re-sign him, and boy do I hope I am wrong on this!
haha - with Gonchar, I totally agree! hey that felt good!
ha!
that could probably be said for 75% of the league really. 1 year contracts keep guys motivated whether it's kuba or ovechkin...
this is only a job for alot of guys in the league, i would go as far as saying alot of pro's don't even like hockey so like all of us on this board sometimes we feel like working sometimes we don't.
sounds as though the next cba will really limit the length of allowable contracts which should really help in keeping guys motivated while protecting teams from over-committing and sharing the talent around the league.
And if you add in the Nash sweepstakes it could eliminate another team in the Parise mix, this could be a great year.
The last time he scored more than twenty goals was ten years ago.
No thanks...
If we could move Gonchar I think re-signing Kuba would be a done deal.
I would much rather move Gonchar than Kuba anyway.
One thing I am confused about is the cap floor, if we do move a big contract or two will we have to take any salary back?
Devils - Parise to Sens
Sens - Gonchar to Wild
Happy days!
I said all along that Murray would be stupid to get a rental this year. He just won't do it
I have no idea why Sens chirp feels the need to tell us this over and over. This isn't new info. BM has been saying this for a while now.
The bigger question is whether he makes a trade for the future. With all these big names being thrown around I think this is a very good opportunity to at least try to get a 1st line winger.
Not many teams have the cap or the assets to compete with us if we were serious players in attaining players like Nash
Now Chirp has addressed this on more than one occasion. But to me it seems like his sources aren't very good just like all the so called "experts" around the league. All. They've been doing for the past month is guessing. Everyone is throwing out pure guesses about where players will end up. It's pretty pathetic really.
On top of all that Chirp says they won't be players in the Rick Nash saga. But then followed it up by telling us we had scouts at CBJ games and CbJ had scouts at our games and had Nash and Carter were held out of practice. Again proving he knows nothing. Then he followed that by saying CBJ would be more interested in Florida. I'm sorry but even I know he wouldn't go to a terrible team like fla. He said he wants out of cb because they're at least 5 years away from competing. Yes Ottawa is "rebuilding" but we also have one of the elite centers in the league that I'm sure he's aware of. Which to me puts us miles ahead of just about every team especially Florida.
I just think it's sad to see all these people who flame they have solid sources throw out guesses that make ZERO sense
That is incorrect, a simple check of his stats would have informed you that he scored 24 in 2005-06 and 19 in 2006-07.
But yeah I agree he is done and wouldnt bring him unless we get an injury up front.
Sens unofficial rumors
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For those who want it, here is a summary of recent conversations with league sources regarding the Ottawa Senators activities on the trade front.
1. A western based NHL scout claims Ottawa has remained in contact with Edmonton and Columbus, and speculates the names involved are Sam Gagne and (gulp) Jeff Carter.
2. A western based league employee claims Ottawa has had talks with St. Louis regarding the cost of acquiring Chris Stewart, a pending RFA and current coaches whipping boy.
3. From a Ottawa based source claims that Murray has been listening to offers on defenseman Kuba and Carkner. Teams reportedly involved are Vancouver, Philadelphia and Edmonton.
4. From a “virtual” source, of unknown pedigree, rumour that Penner is imminently Ottawa bound, in return for Lee.
EKLUND!! LOL
E4!! E4!!
my thoughts excatly! mention he and Suter can be roommates next year for years to come!!!
As a couch potatoe GM I say let it ride!
So the Wild are going to give up Zidlicky and 2 picks for Gonchar? And the Devils in the heat of a playoff run accept that for Parise?
I give this a Homer Trade Proposal (HTP) Score of 7 out of 10.
For all those wondering, the HTP score is a complicated formula which takes into account the intelligence of the proposer, the perceived lack of intelligence of all other GMs in the league and the amount of crack the proposer is currently smoking. I plan on assigning an HTP score to people's trade proposals up until February 27th.
unless we intend on raising gonchar's jersey to the rafters, he seems like a weak link on defence. His upside could help the kings and we get a similar contract that frees up space on d.
Penner wont play if he's a slacker under mcleans system
and could thrive short term in ottawa and could be dumped for a higher pick next year at deadline or keep him if he fits well.
BTW i love pancakes, whats the problem with pancakes?
it's a great way to add body mass!
and I am big on Lee, he is just on the verge of solidfying himself as a top 4 D,
top two d are hard to come by, top 4 not so much...with that said,I've been happy with Lee as well but I don't see him being a top 4 on a decent team. he does everythink "ok" that's not a top 4 guy...
Leaving us with this d-crew for next year...
Karlsson-Cowen
Lee-Phillips
Gryba-Borowecki
OUCH
We have to keep at least 1 of gonchar or kuba. My preference would be to keep both and dump gonchar as an expiring contract at the draft
leaving us
karlsson-kuba
cowen-phillips
lee-boro/gryba
I know this might be difficult for you to comprehend but Nash isn't the only BlueJacket player out there.
No guessing here. I have been consistent all along (for the past month) in saying that the Sens will not be making any big moves.
The speculation regarding Florida had nothing to do with sources and really just had to do with the Panthers having the right assets to make a move. As we know, they are not on the list Nash has submitted.
they have to re-sign price, subban and eller and have around 5 mil to do so.
How about a mixed situation where we jettison both Kuba and Gonchar and replace them with 1 solid top 4 D man either through those trades or UFAs this summer. At least then Lee and 1 of Gryba/Borowieck i can be 3rd pairing instead of 2nd.
This would be my ideal situation, but I agree we cannot jettison both without at least 1 solid replacement for next year.
Obviously the biggest problem is Gonchar's NTC.
Souray cant skate man, he's a pylon, not worth his limited offensive skills, we have Karlsson and Gonchar for that.
I thought he was doing great in Dallas this year...possible comeback?
No one needs scoring more than LA, so either Nash or Carter are probably heading to the sunshine state.
Armed with that new knowledge.
I would think the list includes:
Detroit (i think every player includes them)
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Leafs
Montreal
Vancouver
Boston
I dont think the asking price would be that high, we would be doing LA a favor for taking him of there payroll.
Just saw a article that Lombardi wants 2nd b level proscept lol wow
Sorry there was a bit of exaggeration there as I was working off my memory
Canadiens acquire B. Geoffrion, R. Slaney, and 2nd round draft pick in 2012 from NSH for H. Gill and a conditional 5th round pick in 2013
ok there is no way in hell that Hal Gill is even near the D that Kuba is, I am really curious as to what the market would be for a Kuba.
At this rate, Murray is going to be offered a first round pick for Kuba.
I think things are going to heat up quickly before any GM's feel like they are left out in the cold.
wow,talk about overpaying, i would have only given a 3rd or later round pick, good for the Habs I guess. Indeed, if Gill gets that, Kuba should fetch way more.
We'd be no worse off trust me.
Kuba has 21 points this season, is a +16 and averages 23:31 of TOI per game.
If Gill fetches a second rounder, a fifth rounder, and a couple of prospects...how many first rounders do we get for Kuba??
LOL why is it so hard you to just for 3 more months digest that he is more important on this roster right now than off it.
btw thats quite the return for Gill, especially given he is a UFA. i wonder if this has to do with Boullion taking the puck in the wrist against the sens. otherwise surprised to see Nashville go for Gill....didnt know they had a need on the back end.
Sell high Brian!
yea thats way too much lol Geoffrion is a 2nd rd pick himself along with another 2nd rounder. Slaney is a throw in from the Franson trade. ridiculous.
still dont know why Nashville felt the need to take on an expiring contract in Gill to add on pieces on D...Suter in play??
anyways, i think this spells blowup time for the Habs. Will be definitely interesting to see this unfold in Mtl, their fanbase has no experience seller status for quite some while lol.....
1. they let go of Franson and Lombardi for basically a bag of pucks.
2. Now they overpay for Hal Gill......
weird.
And its actually a well known fact...
This draft sucks beyond the top 10. Its weak, The guy you want at 20 could be had at 30. The guy projected at 45 could go at 30.
This will be a huge trend in the next week. The tossing aroud of 2nd round picks, teams will be more than happy to use them this year, especially compared to last when, it was seen as a deep draft.
So Gill going for a 2nd is really understandable
RDS reports that 10 cars are on flames
Now the offseason is a different story. With the team playing at a much higher level than anyone expected, Murray may want to add bigger pieces quickly. The team is in a fantastic position cap wise and can make a play for big names like Suter or Parise.
In any event, this spring will be much more exciting than any of us thought it would be and this summer should be quite interesting. I'm happy to be a Sens fan right now :)
And you donkeys wanna keep Kuba what a joke!
I believe the "Keep Kuba" side of the argument has been presented quite well in this thread. Read the posts above if you really need further convincing.
I still like picks at this stage. I think it sends the message to GRYBA and BORO that management has confidence in them!
I'm convinced that people here don't want what's best for this teams future ..I'm more convinced people want playoff hockey now and cause that wasn't the plan too begin with we just wait till the offseason for Parise
Wait till kubina goings for a1st and 3rd
I think Gryba and Borowiecki both have a good shot at being solid pros but they can not replace the 20+ minutes a night Kuba is giving this team right now. Not even close.
And I'm convinced that you completely ignore the human element of this sport.
I'm convinced that people here don't want what's best for this teams future ..I'm more convinced people want playoff hockey now and cause that wasn't the plan too begin with so screw it 1st round knock out ....
Dont you think making the playoffs will be great and its the best thing right for our future.... ask the bingo kids. experience is something u cant buy my friend.
There have been 2 overpayment for players that are not as good/valuable as Kuba. How much further along do we move the "filling of the cupboards" by getting what we can for him while his stock is high.
We certainly could use him for the playoffs this year but
a. how far do we really expect to make it (as much as I like to dream)
b. do we wanna let him walk for nothing?
c. if we plan on resigning him, we run the risk of him returning to the Kuba we all grew to hate and/or his stock dropping by a whole lot.
It may never be as higher or higher than it is now.
I honestly can see it from both sides.
Of course we want playoff hockey, who doesn't? And for what it's worth, our young players would benefit from playing in the post season even if it's only for one round. They've played well all year, they deserve a shot! It's not like the 2nd round pick we could get for Kuba will be the next Sidney Crosby anyway...
Grizzled vet, PLENTY of playoff experience, a RING.
Chirp... I know you can't answer this.. or anyone else but Murray for that matter.. but why would the Sens think they have a shot at signing Parise? because they would also have the cap room to sign Suter as well?
How many teams in the league could sign both.. without gutting some of their roster?
Without 'tampering' could Murray let Parise's agent know in a suttle way that if Parise becomes a UFA -- Ottawa would be interested?
RE: The Gill trade.. Geoffrion is the grandson of Boom-Boom Geoffrion and the great grandson of Howie Morenz.. I believe.... will make him the darling of the Habs fans.. and probably slaps a lot of expectations on him.
Also, let's remember last trade deadline what Boston paid to get Kaberle... a 1st + Colbourne and I think something else as well...
so being concerned with the team's future means that you trade the team's top pairing d-man when the playoffs are just around the corner? regardless that is a ufa, 35yrs old and all those other number cruncher facts. and i guess you are going to proceed to say that the playoffs are not in the near future too?
i think you seem to forget that this team has an owner who has lost quite a fair bit of coin over the past two season. and when Bryan Murray goes to him and tells him that
"hey eugene, we can make the playoffs with this roster and then once in all bets are off. However there is this team offering so and so for Kuba. Also Eugene, remember that Kuba is our top-pairing D-man, helps Karlsson be Karlsson, helps us win games, eats up 20+ minutes during the game, plays PP, plays PK. Eugene also remember that you won't lose much money if you dont want to keep him after the season because he is UFA"
what do you think Melnyk is going to say?
playoffs for an owner means $$$. and right now Eugene doesnt have to pay a dime more to get to the playoffs and further. everyone knows the long shot for the cup. noone can predict whats going to happen between the 1st and 3rd rounds. by my count, out of all the team's above ottawa in the standings, we have a losing record with Boston only.
Call those who think they should keep him donkeys if you wish, but I think the players would see the trading of their steadiest defenceman while they are in a playoff race as somewhat of a betrayal.
What Montreal did with Gill has no bearing on what Ottawa should do with Kuba, just as what Ottawa did last year at the deadline has no similarity to the situation Ottawa finds themselves in this year.
Just like fans, players have a different perspective on what Management should do when they are in the middle of a playoff race than they do when all hope is lost.
This is anything but a slam dunk for Brian Murray.
I completely agree BUT if Kuba fetches a massive overpayment that is now looking quite likely is it worth risking? I'd say yes.
Boro played two fairly solid games and while hardly a proper audition, could be worth the gamble as your 6th/7th with CArkner. Lee has played his best hockey the past few weeks and if it continues, would be the second straight year he has played well mid-February on. Lee has barely made the lineup so getting him in full time is almost like adding a new addition. Lee and Boro as new additions won't replace Kuba but they could come pretty close. And I think that difference is worth recieving whatever overpayment Kuba fetches. Agian, we have to be talking about a mid round first or a first and a prospect but if that's what we are talking about, go for it.
Murray and MacLean could communicate this to the guys in a way that doesnt end up hurting them. They could easily "spin" it as a motivator in fact. I wouldnt be too concerned with hurting the room, I think they could handle it.
very interesting times.
Agree 100%. This draft class, especially at forward, is looking very weak.
Glad David Poile ain't my GM!
Agreed, other than the Bruins who seem to have our number, there is no reason based on this year's head to head games, that we could not knock of every other team ahead of us.
of course that is wishful thinking, but like they say, once you are in, anything is possible.
yea unfortunately for all the kuba-traders on this forum, the last time they saw the playoffs was on the ps3/xbox360 playing NHL 12.
looking back at people's comparison of ottawas situation with Mtl, you have to literally do FACEPALM at the idiocity of the comparison:
1. Nashville and Philly are in playoff spots actually and are adding pieces for a deep run. I don't see how people rate Nsh or Philly's chances any better than ottawa during the playoffs. Philly is only 3 points up on ottawa. Nsh is in 5th spot in the west. Ottawa doesnt need to add because of prospect pool ramifications, but the least it could do is stick with the current roster and take the shot. again, there are NO GUARANTEES FOR NEXT YR.
2. Mtl and Dallas are both out of the playoffs as of now. Mtl more so than Dallas. But it seems like a long shot for Dallas too with the way the west is shaping up. Therefore, the dump makes absolute sense for those teams.
3. Gill's overpayment: the guy is a proven playoff performer. He was a key guy in getting the penguins through along with Rob Scuderi and they have missed that. They got the replacement finally through Z. Michalek. Yea remember that guy, we tried to sign him but we took Gonchar instead. The other guy was Paul Martin. But Gill's story continued with a cinderella run in Mtl where they beat ODD after ODD. He was key in that too, stifling Washington, Pittsburgh and nearly Philly. Nashville wants to move past the second round this year, with a guy like Gill in the back end, they get resilience and leadership. Understandable overpayment.
And I'm convinced that you completely ignore the human element of this sport.[/
It's a business and if we can make the playoffs and trade Kuba it's a win win for the club and fan base
Haha why in the hell is it a business for you? You are a FAN of the team, remember? Go Sens Go and stuff like that?
Sorry, I understand that in the end this is a business, but not for the fans. The fact that a supporter of the team would care so deeply about maximizing assets that they would prefer the team trade a top 4 D for a draft pick? I just dont get it.
Agreed. there would only be four teams in the league right now who you could say today have the best shots with high confidence: Penguins, Vancouver, Boston, Detroit. Pens, Canucks, Bruins because of the pieces they have already....and Detroit because its Detroit. Other than that everyone else has the same shot and also atleast a piece away in one of forwards,defens e or goalies from being bonafide contender.
can't help but laugh that people actually are implying that the sens tank just because they think the sens won't go too far in the playoffs. unbelievable.
you know what, this is a low point for sens fans as far as i am concerned. leafs fans are better than us at this that their playoff starvation would atleast allow them to have level heads to want to make the playoffs. but us sens fans are such stuck up elitist snobs that we would rather tank than take a shot at it. what a bunch of stupid bandwagoners, fickle and brittle like maple leafs on the ground at the end of fall. ATROCIOUS.
The biggest thing about this trade is what it means to Nashville. They are obviously making a run this year, which likely signals that both Weber and Suter will be retained. Ryan Ellis however would now appear to be trade bait!
Kudos to the readers!
Guess you don't get it then .." maximizing assets (Kuba) with future growth " u see him as a top 4 I see him as middle 30 's and a ufa
It's been good chirping u with senschirp
Alternatively, you could trade him, get some pieces back for the future, and again, go into the play-offs saying "all bets are off." You really mean to tell me that Kuba will be the difference between us making the play-offs and not? He's playing well, but he's no shutdown man, nor is he an offensive powerhouse.
As for it not being a deep draft, I would've thought people would know better by now. It may not be deep in terms of known quantity superstars, but how many times have we seen someone go in a later round and turn out to be an absolute gem. That can happen regardless of whether the draft is deep or not, because a gem like that is by definition a pleasant surprise. Why not stockpile as many pieces as we can get?
Potentially getting three components for Kuba and people want to turn that down?
I don't think you can exclude the NY Rangers. In my opinion it's between them, Boston, Vancouver and Detroit this year. However, I also think LA and Washington are built for the playoffs and will step it up come that time, should they make it.
Likewise!
If it makes you feel better we will be trading Kuba (UFA) for Parise (UFA) in the offseason. How does that fit in you asset management / maximizing returns philosophy.
OK, I'll ask this question. You or anyone else in favor of trading Kuba can answer
Murray trades Kuba for "assets" next week. Right after the trade, Karlsson walks into his office and asks "Bryan, I'm curious, why did you trade my D partner? I'm having an amazing year and alot of it has to do with Kuba. I feel confident playing with him. Did you not feel like we could surprise some teams in the playoffs?"
Bryan's answer is...???
I think in 5-7 years we will look back on this year as a year where a lot of later picks turn into quality NHL players. One of the benefits of a strong D and goalie class is that the forwards are often underrated. They have been exposed to higher than average opposition as well which can only help in their long term development towards the NHL.
I want Parise here as much as anyone, but he's by no means a guarantee to sign with us. And if we could get rid of Kuba's salary, acquire picks and/or prospects, and sign Parise on top of that, how would that be a bad thing?
Ahh, no...
Not a chance...you'd be lucky if its a second and a prospect.
So Nail Yakupov, based on the clip he is scoring against this uber strong defence crop must be the best player ever? Of course then so are all the guys drafted last year and the year before who ate lighting it up. Apparently the only guys who can't score (in the CHL) are the draft eligible players this season. Underrated? Or just weak...
Brian's answer is: "Well Eric, we think this team is deep enough to make a run even without the guy who, at best, was going to be your partner for the rest of thiss year, and not beyond. We're not only about winning in the short-term here in Ottawa, we're about the present and the future, and we want that future to be a winning one. So we thought, if there was a way we could strengthen our team for the future, while not hindering our chances this year, why not do it."
But you DID hinder the team this year by trading the guy I am comfortable with... would be his answer.
My point is that you do not want to ruin anyone's confidence right now. Karlsson is playing his best hockey and a lot has to do with Kuba. What you would get in return would have no immediate impact and it could potentially be nothing (if the picks don't pan out). If Kuba could fetch you a young prospect who is NHL ready next season I'd be willing to listen. Other than that, no thanks
ut Bryan, how can you not say this is going to hinder our chances this season? Now I have to play with Carkner or some guy that is even younger then I am and you expect them to cover for me when I lead the rush and make bad pinching decisions at the blue line?"
He looked just fine when we played him with Cowen earlier this year, and I'd wager that his success this year, as compared to last year, has more to do with the coach's system than Kuba's average play.
If we're saying that this team's success hinges on Kuba this year, I think we're in more trouble than we realize.
Please read post #45. Its about this team's success as a team as one unit. Kuba is an important part of the team and yes he does have a positive impact on Karlsson to a large extent. The sample size suggests that, whats the point in denying it? And yes, not resigning him will be a tricky decision given his performance this year and his chemistry with Karlsson. Its going to be a judgement call because you could keep him for another year or two and dangle him at the future deadline as our system guys move up. Certainly cowen showed chemistry, but this is Cowen's first ever season in the NHL, he is a complete rookie compared to Karlsson who quite amazingly seems to be the lead horse for the Norris all of a sudden. Again, reiteration: its about team success and solid team chemistry. Certain pieces sometimes become crucial and Kuba has become crucial in an intangible manner all of a sudden. and btw, its not so intangible either because he has decent #s.
I'd resign Kuba to a 1 year contract extension but with no extras (NMC NTC etc.) and hopefully that'll allow cowen to get his offensive ability up before next trade deadline, and ship kuba off
I remember reading earlier this season about a really big defenseman...
Any worthwhile for the Sens to take a run at?
NY Rangers:
Filip Kuba
Ottawa:
PK Subban
Montreal:
2nd rounder+prospec t from NY
Ottawa 1st round pick
Our D looks like:
Karlsson-Cowen
Subban-Phillips
Gonchar-Lee
Borocop
thoughts?
So you want to trade Kuba (who appears to be worth a second) and our 1st for Subban? A guy who apparently Montreal wants to get rid of?
I'm guessing you're not a fan?
And btw I never said they wanted to get rid of him...I said they might be looking at moving him (obviously if the right price comes along)
What are you guys smoking?
1 - why would Kuba resign for one more year only and why cheap? His value is high and the market for D is decent so he'll want to cash in.
2 - why do we want a 35 year old plugging up our blueline when we've got young guys coming up and two other old timer already plugging up the blueline that we can't easily get rid of
While I don't think it is realistic, I would make that trade in a heartbeat... Subban is an elite talent that the Canadiens would be foolish to abandon but if their train wreck of a management team deems that he is expendable, it would be amazing to get him.
No, I'm not a fan of giving up our first and the second (or more if the Hal Gill return is any indication) we could get for Kuba for PK Subban (a 2nd round pick himself). I'd rather trust Murray to draft someone better with our first. Subban is good and all, but he's not exactly Suter yet.
The reason I think it is realistic is because he is an RFA at the end of the year and Montreal is in cap hell. As mentioned above they will have 5 million in cap space and have to sign Price and Subban to big contracts. Price will want 6+mil, so I think this is a good opportunity to snag Subban.
Yes, I do believe PART of EK's success is due to the strong play of Kuba. Let me ask you this: If Kuba was having a terrible season playing alongside Karlsson, do you really believe EK would be as successful as he's been? This is a TEAM sport. When the players around you are doing their jobs, it allows you to do yours. Karlsson is an offensive defenseman who makes a TON of mistakes. His +/- is often helped by Kuba who has his back when he has a bad giveaway or makes a bad play.
Does it mean there isn't someone else who can eventually take Kuba's spot alongside Karlsson? Not at all but certainly not this late in the season or going into the playoffs
As for trading for Subban, he is a head case. His attitude is the reason why the Habs would consider moving him. I don't think Ottawa would want a guy like that
(Over-stating it to make a point of course, but Karlsson doesn't need Kuba to play well, Cowen is a perfectly suitable partner.)
lol or grab price maybe haha....obvious ly not for the sens because the haul he will demand will be ridiculous.
Have you watched Subban play?? The guy has 12 points in his first 21 playoff games, and most of them came in his rookie year. The guy play such intense and exciting hockey, and you need to give in order to get.
Oh and btw, just because a guy is drafted in a certain round doesn't mean that that's what he is worth. Do you think Alfie is worth a 6th round pick. Even better, do you think Karlsson is worth a mid first-rounder? I think Subban has done more than enough to prove he is worth that return.
I agree with their cap hell but the only way they move subban to solve anything would be to include gomez to get rid of that horrible contract. IMO.
Even then, I don't think they would chance that scenario either. Subban is too important to their team and his friendship with price could hamper them re-signing their star goalie if subban was let go.
Again Chirp I have to disagree, I think it is fairly split on the keep Kuba, and the trade Kuba, both arguments make some sense... all depends on how much a team is willing to give for him I guess
but (surprise) I am still on the trade him, especially if Gill went for that much
1. He's not part of the rebuild/future.
2. His value is high compared to other times during his current contract.
3. There's not much value in letting him walk for nothing.
4. If Hal Gill gets a 2nd, a recent 2nd and prospect - what could we get for Kuba closer to the deadline??
Possible reasons to keep him:
1. If we don't get any decent offers (I would say anything less than a second rounder from a bubble team)
2. If Murray *knows* that he's a popular guy in the room and the morale hit would be major (i.e. outweigh a potential return)
3. If Murray *knows* that none of the Bingo guys can step in (clearly Lee moves into the top 4 and the Bingo guy would play third pairing)
Bottom line, it's not a matter of trade him or not, it's a matter of how much do we need to get back. If the Hal Gill trade is any indication I would think the offers might be really good so I would say trade him.
Of course, only Murray and MacLean know for sure about the locker room and Bingo guys etc (or even any potential impact on Karlsson). If Murray keeps him I'm going to assume none of the offers made it worth his while.
OK, let's say we trade Kuba for exactly what Gill went for. I'd say that's a fair comparison. You would prefer to trade Kuba and weaken our chances of making it out of the 1st round of the playoffs (or even holding onto our playoff spot) for a so-so prospect, a career minor leaguer and a 2nd round pick? Thanks but I prefer to keep Kuba and cross my fingers that the Sens can surprise a team or two come playoff time
I have. He's good but I don't like him enough to give up what you outlined. And he's only 22 so his draft position does play into it since in 3-4 years whoever we draft with our first rounder could be better than Subban. I'm not saying he's not good, but I just don't think he's proven enough yet to be worth all that - especially since Montreal isn't trying harder to find room to keep him. If Ottawa was in "cap hell" I don't think we'd be looking to unload Karlsson.
If the only way to get that second round pick back into the fold is to give up Kuba it's a bit harder to keep him.
Hey - I want to run into the playoffs and act like we belong there too, but I don't want to regret it too much on draft day either.
I don't get the hate on this. I would do this in a second. Obviously this is purely speculative but I'm amazed at the number of people who would keep Gonchar. If someone is willing to take his salary, we should be ecstatic!
Use the savings, sign Kuba for 1-2 years and get a top 6 rental. Major win for us!
I have to be honest I enjoy reading your blog however...
I am beginning to be fed up with the lack of 'inside information'. Like I said yesterday there hasn't been much legit facts being thrown out. Instead it's been all speculation. You're guessing about everything and wording it in such a way that makes it sound like it's coming from a source.
I'm starting to think your only source is TSN because everything you post has already been written there.
You give us info on a daily basis about what will or won't happen and time and time again you find yourself surprised with what actually ends up happening. (I.e us trading Rundblad).
How bad would you look if Ottawa goes out and gets Nash or Carter or adds any salary for that matter.
I will be laughing A LOT
It's not that people want to keep Gonchar, it's that some people are aware of his NMC and the fact that no team is likely to take on his contract.
Quoting Anonymustache:
Amen (but he's 35).
Quoting ZachPraiseTheSwedes:
Go elsewhere. You will not be missed.
EEEEEEEYORE !
Being in Montreal, I see this kid all the time and yes has some talent, but there is no way i would want him on the Sens, completely selfish player, takes bad penalties all the time (often when the Habs have a power play), makes a lot of mental mistakes and clearly has an attitude problem (recall him going at it with Ladouceur, the assistance coach, during the Pens game - shameful!). no way he fits into this team's philosophy.
As for fighting, really??? i guess you are not watching closely. here is a clip you need to see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heF3OY2Pnoo
whatever little respect i had for him was gone after the dirty elbow to krecji with follow up turtle when challenged by ference.
i would on the other hand take someone like emelin - reminds me of A-train but with better skating skills.
It's not that people want to keep Gonchar, it's that some people are aware of his NMC and the fact that no team is likely to take on his contract.
Tons of teams are looking for PMDs. If someone is willing to take on Tomas Kaberle's contract for another 2 year, than there's no reason why Gonchar couldn't be a serviceable PMD veteran somewhere for this year and the next.
He may be willing to waive the NMC in order to be on a team that is more of a contender.
To think there is only one answer is pretty arrogant in my views..
I like what Murray has come out and said...it's the right approach for the franchise. IF we were to look at adding a forward, a guy I wouldn't mind Murray kicking the tires on would be PA Parenteau. Yes he's a UFA, but he is only 28 and would definitely fit into the rebuild path we are on. As long as the price isn't steep...I think he'd bee worth looking at.
[quote name="HKYcountry"]
I mentioned PA PArenteau a couple months ago when trade deadline talks were beginning. Since then, there has been clear indications from Parenteau's agent and the NYI that he will re-sign with the team, and that they want to start contract talks once the season is over. He's pretty much unavailable at this point. Too bad, he was the hidded gem in this crop of UFA's...
I simply pointed out that it's not likely. He hasn't been great this year, he's getting older, he's got another year at $5.5M and he has a NMC. So it's pretty unlikely that he'll get moved. Possible? Sure. Just unlikely.
Kaberle is 4 years younger and making $1.25M less against the cap - and their numbers this season are very close.
(Having said this probably jinxes them into 10th...)
On a happier note, Mark Stone had 5 pts tonight (1g 4a) putting him at 99 on the season - and keeping him well in the scoring lead of the WHL...
You can never know for sure. If the Sens did aquire Nash/ Carter it would be for a surprisingly low return. That being said, they won't pay top dollar for either of them.
On another note it's difficult to provide "inside information" on a blog even if you have it. If Chirp has a solid contact for info, and he starts divulging too much information, that contact will quickly tighten his lips. He isn't Eklund. What you have to realize is that alot of the Sens management team grew up I the valley and have friends who they tell inside info to over a few beers. Just because Chirp doesn't be more specific doesn't mean he doesn't have an inside source of info. I can te you most things he says allign with what I hear from my friends. Take it or go to HockeyBuzz.
Talk about feeling old!
Why do people give up on players before they turn 25? These are kids we are talking about. Some guys take longer roads then others. Not that Lee will ever be a top 2 d-man but he can still be a solid top 6 dman for another 10 years.
Yeah wait until they start playing against younger players who werent in the NHL before they hit puberty. Especially Cowen. He could be a beast when he becomes a man.
If you find this blog not to your liking I have a fabulous idea for you. you, Take your Sundin jersey, turn it sideways and shove it up your ass dickwad. You participate in this forum yet choose to criticise the provider? Why don't you start your own blog and call it "I don't have the balls to predict shit so just watch TSN and we can talk about it later." Who the fuck ever prognosticates big moves in any sport with more than 5% success? NO ONE! Either enjoy the blog for what it is or Peluso and I will find you and send you back to TO in your gimp chest!
Another good example is O'brien. He's taken so long that many had written him off. That doesn't mean that he'll stick around but he's performed very well so far.
Another good example is the Red Wings organization. Their draft picks dont even get a sniff of the NHL until they are 22...and that includes Datsyuk and Zetterberg.
Always willing to take criticism.
I have never claimed to have all the answers. What I do have is some very well placed sources that have told me, time and time again, the Sens will not be adding a significant contract this year.
All I can do is pass along what I hear. Even in the case of Turris, I mentioned a couple times that he was a player that I had heard they were looking at. Not sure what more you expect.
I agree but I never said give up on Brian Lee. All I said was his stock has never been higher and we could get Kubina and resign him if it works out (just like we did with Andy). A year ago people throwing Lee under the bus. He has one good season, plays 50% of the games and he becomes a hockey god lol.
ps. Zach don't be a douche:)
@ ZachPraiseTheSwedes,
Why would you fabricate such nonsense, about where SensChirp gets his inside information, and stating that TSN is his source??
SensChirp has been the first to break the news many times
on matters related to the Ottawa Senators.
You sir, seem to be guessing, more so than SensChirp in your statement and false accusations.
You need to apologize, and retract your false accusations on the owner of this site !!
Ryan would definitely give the Sens the fire power they would need for a good playoff run and at 24 years of age, has lots of hockey in front of him.
So after the Ducks GM laughs his ass off - then what?
http://i.imgur.com/Tt6QT.jpg
really funny
ummm...just a little tidbit the sunshine state = Florida not California
Ott's a better and cheaper option but Penner's a UFA so less commitment on our side.
Not sure if I'd give up much for him, but I wouldn't be too upset if we acquired Ott.
While it is true that his value is higher than in the past and that he's apparently been on the block before. NOW is finally the time where he's got a legit shot at being a regular on our blueline going forward. Kuba's as good as gone (if not by the deadline then after the season). Gonchar has one year or less left. Carkner of course is below Lee on the depth chart anyway and very possibly gone by the deadline or after this year.
So Lee pretty much slots into 3rd/4th on the "future" blueline. Karlsson and Cowen are both ahead of him of course and Phillips isn't going anywhere.
So until two or three other guys push Lee back into the press box, I think he's someone to keep around and expect good things from.
Doesn't mean he's not "available" for the right price - but I don't see us trading him for a better D or anything, so I say keep him.
HTP (homer trade proposal) score = 7
I really like the way Lee is playing... so I would say no to getting Kubina. According to Pierre McGuire (yeah I know) he says Kubina's game has fallen off a lot.... Sooner have Lee.
Kuba can definately help us win a Stanley Cup.... by trading his ass out of town for a 2nd round pick or straight up for Ruutu